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Poll

Is 23 races in a season too many?

It'll be fine.
No it's too many.
I'll wait and see.
It's just for the money.
I want more.

Author Topic: 23 for 22?  (Read 803 times)

Offline Andy B

23 for 22?
« on: October 15, 2021, 09:53:18 PM »
So just announced the 2022 calendar of 23 races but is that too many?
I'll feel for the race team as they will be spending a lot of time away from home and there has to be a work life balance in every occupation.
Is it a case of more races equals more money?
Provisional 2022 Formula 1 calendar

Date   Grand Prix   Venue
20 March   Bahrain   Sakhir
27 March   Saudi Arabia   Jeddah
10 April   Australia   Melbourne
24 April   Emilia Romagna   Imola*
8 May   Miami   Miami**
22 May   Spain   Barcelona*
29 May   Monaco   Monaco
12 June   Azerbaijan   Baku
19 June   Canada   Montreal
3 July   United Kingdom   Silverstone
10 July   Austria   Spielberg
24 July   France   Le Castellet
31 July   Hungary   Budapest
28 August   Belgium   Spa
4 September   Netherlands   Zandvoort
11 September   Italy   Monza
25 September   Russia   Sochi
2 October   Singapore   Singapore*
9 October   Japan   Suzuka
23 October   USA   Austin*
30 October   Mexico   Mexico City
13 November   Brazil   Sao Paulo
20 November   Abu Dhabi   Abu Dhabi


Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Online cosworth151

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2021, 11:58:18 AM »
I just wish that F1 paid more attention to the quality of the tracks rather than the quantity.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Scott

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2021, 05:38:49 PM »
I’m ok with it.  A billion dollar sport can run 60-70 competition days a year.

They have to sort out the confusing regulations and specs for the cars though, and yes, improve the tracks with the main focus being competitive and safe races.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2021, 06:52:01 PM »
They're probably thinking some of those will drop out. With 23 they can lose 3 and still have the 20 they need for the contracts.
Lonny

Offline John S

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Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2021, 02:10:00 PM »
Maybe it's too many for some, but being retired and carefree - well almost  :D - I look forward to the extra race/s.

I found these interesting paragraphs in a Deiter Rencken, Racefans.net article of 16th Oct, quoting from “If You Come Second You Have Lost” a book by Cedric Selzer, in which he explains the enormous in season workload for F1 track mechanics in the early 1960s. The seasons then were from early Jan right thru to Mid or late Dec.  :swoon:

“We drove in shifts – as far as Enna (in Sicily) – then put in all-nighters, as many as were needed,” he recalls, adding that European rounds were drive-to races with customs points at every border and a raft of currencies per journey – no Easyjet, truck stops or credit cards back then. How many F1 races did he do that season?

“There were 24, 10 of which were world championship events and the rest non-championship races, but no less demanding for it, then tended the cars once at the circuit".

A total of 32 such races were scheduled that year (including two on the same day, as not all teams necessarily contested all of them). Granted, the proportion of events outside Europe was not as high as it is now. But nor did staff 50 years ago enjoy the benefit of a mandatory curfew on their race weekend working hours imposed by the rules as today’s crews do.

When air travel was needed it was by turboprops without the conveniences or speed of current aircraft. South Africa featured on the calendar and was a long haul, plus teams travelled to the USA and Mexico. Between those two races they headed for Detroit to fit a Ford engine to a ‘mule’ Lotus Indianapolis racer. No time off then?
“Of course not, we were there to work,” Selzer laughs.

Under the circumstances it is little wonder that Selzer recalls being away from home for well over a month on occasion, with three flyaway races falling within that period. He, though, considers himself fortunate to have escaped Tasmanian duties – his colleagues drew the wrong straws and were sent Down under for a series of events that later became known as the Tasman Cup. They were away for six weeks…




Check out the gruelling 1963 F1 race schedule at the end of the article.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/10/16/f1s-23-race-calendar-is-a-record-but-teams-have-worked-longer-seasons-before/
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Online cosworth151

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2021, 02:55:16 PM »
Try this. NASCAR Grand National the same year. All 55 races were championship races. They ran 55 race seasons for several years in the early-mid 1960's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_NASCAR_Grand_National_Series
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Jericoke

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2021, 06:34:52 PM »
I did watch a video with Christian Horner (not going to look it up, sorry), talking about how in the Schumacher days, teams would spend at least twice as much time testing as racing, so even a 23 race schedule isn't as much work as everyone says it is, compared with earlier eras.

Offline Andy B

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2021, 09:41:41 PM »
I did watch a video with Christian Horner (not going to look it up, sorry), talking about how in the Schumacher days, teams would spend at least twice as much time testing as racing, so even a 23 race schedule isn't as much work as everyone says it is, compared with earlier eras.

The difference being Jeri that there were test teams and race teams back then, I think the drivers will be fine it's the crews that'll suffer.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline John S

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Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2021, 03:53:42 PM »
I did watch a video with Christian Horner (not going to look it up, sorry), talking about how in the Schumacher days, teams would spend at least twice as much time testing as racing, so even a 23 race schedule isn't as much work as everyone says it is, compared with earlier eras.

The difference being Jeri that there were test teams and race teams back then, I think the drivers will be fine it's the crews that'll suffer.

Not sure a lot of F1 mechanics & track crew will be bothered about the extra race/s Andy. Most of em do it because they love it.

I remember when I was in my twenties & early thirties I worked plenty of extra and unsocial hours to get Free newspapers out, the group of us looked on it as us Agin the system.  ;)

Most weeks I put in over 70/80 hours, some of that was midnight or early morning dashes 100 miles or more to print works. We never found too much trouble getting others to share our lunacy, I suspect F1 is no different.
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2021, 03:22:25 PM »
Too many races. I now know 4 people who have said they're going part-time with their F1 support because of this (2 of them decided to apply it to 2021 as well "to get used to it"), and I'm considering reducing the amount of time I spend on F1 as well next year.

25% of staff told Dieter Rencker that they are quitting the travel team at the end of this year due to the proposed schedule, combined with the FIA banning more than 10 staff swaps during the season (out of a travel team of 48), with the notion that these are to cover illness and maybe needing to deputise one or two senior staff with obligations to their wider businesses. It doesn't matter how much you love something if it's been made impossible to do it (remember these people often have families - which unlike NASCAR and similar American series, cannot accompany the crews to all races in a motorhome - and all have to look after their health well enough to be able to work the whole season).

Furthermore, the paddock's looked consistently drained since Monza and it seems to be taking a toll on the quality of races. What is the point of doing it if you're not allowed to do your best work and other series (as well as the F1 team factories) do?

If a competition series can run 70 competition days a season... ...F1 competes 3 days a weekend (remember Spa - even non-Sprint weekends can have FP2 on Friday matter, and it's even less predictable). 70 / 3 = 23.333 . So on the upper calculation, F1 is right on the limit of what can be done.

Technically, only 15 are needed for the TV contracts, but Liberty's not allowed to leave money on the table because its shareholders are entitled to complain if so. Miami's track hasn't been officially approved by the FIA yet because it has to do that within 120 days of the race in the case of street tracks for first-time events (so it can't happen before January). That will almost certainly be approved.
Percussus resurgio
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Offline Jericoke

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2021, 04:12:27 PM »
I think you might have stumbled onto some valid reasons to have an extended season.

With a shorter season, each race 'counts', and if you can't watch them all, why watch any?  With a longer season, you can afford to be a casual fan, and let yourself not watch a race.  (Personally, I've probably missed maybe 10 races since I started watching f1... out of about 400 since 1996).  X fans watching 20 races isn't as many fans as 3X watching 12 out of 23 races.  (And following on instragram, youtube etc.)

I'm a hockey fan, and I probably watch half my team's games, and I don't feel bad about it.

Second, if teams are reaching 'burn out', that provides opportunity.  Historically the minnow teams would focus on having their car best for the track that suited their car, all their eggs in one (hopefully), glorious weekend.  Teams can focus on having their crew ready for a race they expect the 'big teams' to be burned out, providing a planned opportunity to take advantage of mistakes.

Agree or disagree, it's certainly an approach that a business could take.

Too many races. I now know 4 people who have said they're going part-time with their F1 support because of this (2 of them decided to apply it to 2021 as well "to get used to it"), and I'm considering reducing the amount of time I spend on F1 as well next year.

25% of staff told Dieter Rencker that they are quitting the travel team at the end of this year due to the proposed schedule, combined with the FIA banning more than 10 staff swaps during the season (out of a travel team of 48), with the notion that these are to cover illness and maybe needing to deputise one or two senior staff with obligations to their wider businesses. It doesn't matter how much you love something if it's been made impossible to do it (remember these people often have families - which unlike NASCAR and similar American series, cannot accompany the crews to all races in a motorhome - and all have to look after their health well enough to be able to work the whole season).

Furthermore, the paddock's looked consistently drained since Monza and it seems to be taking a toll on the quality of races. What is the point of doing it if you're not allowed to do your best work and other series (as well as the F1 team factories) do?

If a competition series can run 70 competition days a season... ...F1 competes 3 days a weekend (remember Spa - even non-Sprint weekends can have FP2 on Friday matter, and it's even less predictable). 70 / 3 = 23.333 . So on the upper calculation, F1 is right on the limit of what can be done.

Technically, only 15 are needed for the TV contracts, but Liberty's not allowed to leave money on the table because its shareholders are entitled to complain if so. Miami's track hasn't been officially approved by the FIA yet because it has to do that within 120 days of the race in the case of street tracks for first-time events (so it can't happen before January). That will almost certainly be approved.

Offline Andy B

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2021, 09:23:13 PM »
Well put Ali I have reduced the amount I watch already and I thought being retired I would watch more not less.
I always used to watch Friday, Saturday and Sunday in full but I tend to read more and am considering cancelling my F1 feed subscription which will then mean I'll not watch any at all.

I have to disagree with John S as like Ali I think the crews will burn out with all the travelling and hotels but time will tell.

Too many races. I now know 4 people who have said they're going part-time with their F1 support because of this (2 of them decided to apply it to 2021 as well "to get used to it"), and I'm considering reducing the amount of time I spend on F1 as well next year.

25% of staff told Dieter Rencker that they are quitting the travel team at the end of this year due to the proposed schedule, combined with the FIA banning more than 10 staff swaps during the season (out of a travel team of 48), with the notion that these are to cover illness and maybe needing to deputise one or two senior staff with obligations to their wider businesses. It doesn't matter how much you love something if it's been made impossible to do it (remember these people often have families - which unlike NASCAR and similar American series, cannot accompany the crews to all races in a motorhome - and all have to look after their health well enough to be able to work the whole season).

Furthermore, the paddock's looked consistently drained since Monza and it seems to be taking a toll on the quality of races. What is the point of doing it if you're not allowed to do your best work and other series (as well as the F1 team factories) do?

If a competition series can run 70 competition days a season... ...F1 competes 3 days a weekend (remember Spa - even non-Sprint weekends can have FP2 on Friday matter, and it's even less predictable). 70 / 3 = 23.333 . So on the upper calculation, F1 is right on the limit of what can be done.

Technically, only 15 are needed for the TV contracts, but Liberty's not allowed to leave money on the table because its shareholders are entitled to complain if so. Miami's track hasn't been officially approved by the FIA yet because it has to do that within 120 days of the race in the case of street tracks for first-time events (so it can't happen before January). That will almost certainly be approved.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline John S

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Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2021, 11:11:02 AM »

I always used to watch Friday, Saturday and Sunday in full but I tend to read more and am considering cancelling my F1 feed subscription which will then mean I'll not watch any at all.


 :o :o :o  OMG Andy! - You mustn't lose the faith.   :nono:  :stop:

I must admit I could do without some races like boring bloody Spanish GP or the French monstrosity that is Paul Ricard, but then we get races at Baku, Monza, & Turkey this year that more than make up for it.

I've certainly missed races over the years, mostly for family events & such, and still occasionally do, it's refreshing though to find I love it as much at the next one. 

They promise the racing will be closer, and so more exciting next year, at least stay with F1 until mid season next year to see before you walk away. 

Anyway the rest of us here would miss you around the place,  :(
- we'd have less posts from the other side of the world to wake up to, too.  ;)
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2021, 10:22:06 PM »

I always used to watch Friday, Saturday and Sunday in full but I tend to read more and am considering cancelling my F1 feed subscription which will then mean I'll not watch any at all.


 :o :o :o  OMG Andy! - You mustn't lose the faith.   :nono:  :stop:

I must admit I could do without some races like boring bloody Spanish GP or the French monstrosity that is Paul Ricard, but then we get races at Baku, Monza, & Turkey this year that more than make up for it.

I've certainly missed races over the years, mostly for family events & such, and still occasionally do, it's refreshing though to find I love it as much at the next one. 

They promise the racing will be closer, and so more exciting next year, at least stay with F1 until mid season next year to see before you walk away. 

Anyway the rest of us here would miss you around the place,  :(
- we'd have less posts from the other side of the world to wake up to, too.  ;)

Indeed! :good: :good: :good:
Lonny

Offline Andy B

Re: 23 for 22?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2021, 07:54:33 AM »

I always used to watch Friday, Saturday and Sunday in full but I tend to read more and am considering cancelling my F1 feed subscription which will then mean I'll not watch any at all.


 :o :o :o  OMG Andy! - You mustn't lose the faith.   :nono:  :stop:

I must admit I could do without some races like boring bloody Spanish GP or the French monstrosity that is Paul Ricard, but then we get races at Baku, Monza, & Turkey this year that more than make up for it.

I've certainly missed races over the years, mostly for family events & such, and still occasionally do, it's refreshing though to find I love it as much at the next one. 

They promise the racing will be closer, and so more exciting next year, at least stay with F1 until mid season next year to see before you walk away. 

Anyway the rest of us here would miss you around the place,  :(
- we'd have less posts from the other side of the world to wake up to, too.  ;)

Indeed! :good: :good: :good:

That's very kind of you to say so.  :good:
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

 


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