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Author Topic: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”  (Read 2501 times)

Offline cosworth151

Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« on: November 17, 2023, 04:40:52 PM »
I seldom agree with Max Verstappen but this time he hit the nail right on the head.

“That’s just how I am. Some people like the show a bit more, I don’t like it at all. I grew up just looking at the performance side of things and that’s how I see it as well. So for me, I like to be in Vegas, but not so much for racing."

I'm still don't know how Liberty expects to build an F1 fan base here in the States with a race most fans can't even come close to afford to attend and will be on TV in the middle of the night.

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a45859727/not-a-fan-max-verstappen-calls-f1-las-vegas-grand-prix-99-show-1-sporting-event/


“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Andy B

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2023, 08:10:03 PM »
I couldn't agree more. :good:
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Jericoke

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2023, 09:28:50 PM »
I assume someone somewhere has a formula that converts social media clicks or views into dollar signs in a corporate boardroom.  The Vegas race might be a disaster for anyone who actually wants to watch it, but it's not a disaster for anyone who wants F1 to take over X or Instagram or whatever for the weekend.

Even this site has more threads about the Vegas race than the last 3* races put together.

*I didn't count, if I'm wrong I'm wrong.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2023, 05:28:24 PM »
It's certainly taken over Twitter, in the same way as it took over Twitter during other disasters during F1's tenure. I'm already seeing comparisons to Fyre Fest (although DashCon 2014 would be a fairer comparison - nobody has or is likely to die, and mostly it's the chaotic satire of corporatism and exploitation of participant naivete that's taking the imagination).
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Ian

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2023, 06:33:19 PM »
Not often I agree with Max but this time he's right.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline Andy B

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2023, 08:26:27 PM »

Even this site has more threads about the Vegas race than the last 3* races put together.


But for all the wrong reasons!
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Jericoke

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2023, 02:34:18 AM »

Even this site has more threads about the Vegas race than the last 3* races put together.


But for all the wrong reasons!

“There’s no such thing as bad publicity” - P.T. Barnum (attributed)

“There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.” - Oscar Wilde

I'm sure that Liberty sees themselves as a modern day Barnum.  F1 has been called a circus for a LONG time, certainly it was called that in the 90s when I started watching, and assume it was called that long before.

Lewis Hamilton understands the sport is a circus, and the drivers are entertainers.  He is willing to pay that price.  Max sees himself as an athlete, nothing wrong with that, but like Nico Rosberg, he'll get tired of the circus and turn his back on it, rather than continue to grow it like Stewart, Lauda, Prost and Andretti* have.

Nothing wrong with stepping away from something once you're done with it.  Max doesn't owe F1 anything, especially if it's just to line Liberty's pockets.

*An incomplete list for sure, but some drivers go on to be 'royalty' and others don't, and it's not just about on track skill.

Offline Ian

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2023, 02:59:54 PM »
Hated all the glitter and showbiz but when the race started it was worth it,  thoroughly enjoyed it, some great racing and moves, would rather Perez had won though.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline rmassart

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2023, 04:53:13 PM »
I missed the race because I got the time wrong... The fact that it was a US race, but running in the early morning on a Sunday (for those in europe) as if it was Japan really confused me.

So I checked the local start time on the formula 1 site and still managed to get it wrong by two hours :confused:

I tuned in just as max was crossing the finish line, and promptly turned it off again.

Interesting race or not, same predictable result. With or without a penalty...

Liberty are doing their very best to lose me as a regular watcher of their races. I guess they don't care, as I'm not their target audience I guess. I'm not financially interesting for them.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2023, 05:22:07 PM »
Unfortunately, the race just rubbed it in even further that this was not a sporting event. The main reasons the race ended as it did:

- One team was in a position to use both its cars and the other contender wasn't, something entirely down to the stewards pretending after Friday FP1 that they don't have the power to set aside penalties that are entirely the fault of the FIA (it's laid down in Article 11.9.3g of the International Sporting Code, and doesn't even require the stewards to give a reason - but the stewards claiming "they would have set the penalty aside if they could" ignores the very article that includes the regulation that permits the stewards to penalise the incident in the first place (Article 11.9.3a).

- Verstappen was allowed to deliberately miss Turn 1, push off Leclerc and was only given a penalty after it became obvious he was going to gain rather more than the amount by which he was penalised. (This gained lots of praise from commentators who had apparently forgotten the rulebook).

- Verstappen was allowed to do lots of defensive weaving in places where that's not permitted, without comment (apart from praise from commentators who apparently had forgotten the rulebook).

- Russell got penalised for a collision Verstappen caused by a dive-bomb that was never going to work. Note that removing any of these 4 would have made someone else the winner (who depends partially on which one(s)).

- Super-powerful push-button DRS passing on a track where that had been billed as almost irrelevant. This made victory by DRS the most likely outcome, we know Red Bull has by far the most potent DRS and it's also known that this is because the FIA let Red Bull spend more than everyone else at the start of the ruleset.

- Curved straight, no repeater starting lights. Brazil's had it for decades despite being on a discount contract due to the FIA wanting an F1 race in South America, and this is allegedly a pull-out-all-the-stops race that can't even be bothered to tell backmarkers when to start. (This is another strike against the track's eligibility to have a Grade 1 licence, by the way, and should have been an instant fail on the track inspection). At which point, the entire weekend should never have happened (my feeling a Ferrari or Perez should have won is subservient to my feeling nobody should have started the race at all).

(There was also a slow stop and a strategic howler from Ferrari, but by the time those happened, the FIA and Liberty already had their cards on the table; they were never going to permit a result that was not their preferred one).

Other factors that ultimately didn't change the result but contributed to souring the impression that any race was intended:


- Verstappen received an investigation for an unsafe release that was dubious (in the sense that I saw little reason to believe anyone had done anything wrong), but Stroll got nothing for nearly hitting Verstappen in the pits due to Lance's unsafe release. Please do not interpret this post as believing the stewards want F1 to not be a sporting event, it just came across as they were being prevented from treating it as such.

- Commentators constantly screaming their "surprise" about long-telegraphed DRS overtakes, making it sound like they thought everyone on track was in a beginner's karting race and had no idea how to race.

- The TV missed most of the moves and appeared to have no sense of what was going on.

The kicker for me was that the Sphere flew the chequered flag a lap early, despite there allegedly being instructions to not let the Sphere emulate any flag (and the International Sporting Code requiring that no lighting system that big emulate the flag system unless it's actually tuned to the flag). Granted that nobody appeared to be fooled in the end, but it just felt like one more trick to try to get Red Bull the 1-2 the FIA so obviously wanted.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2023, 05:28:48 PM by Alianora La Canta »
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2023, 05:41:27 PM »
- Curved straight, no repeater starting lights. Brazil's had it for decades despite being on a discount contract due to the FIA wanting an F1 race in South America, and this is allegedly a pull-out-all-the-stops race that can't even be bothered to tell backmarkers when to start. (This is another strike against the track's eligibility to have a Grade 1 licence, by the way, and should have been an instant fail on the track inspection).

They did have repeater lights, they were highlighted in the pre race coverage on Sky.  To me it seemed they might've gone off early, since cars near the back appeared to get off earlier than the front rows did.

Quote

- The TV missed most of the moves and appeared to have no sense of what was going on.


The coverage did feel more unpolished than it should.  There was a multisecond shot of a corner with no cars.  How you can find a piece of track with NO cars for a few seconds in the middle of an F1 race is quite impressive.

Quote
The kicker for me was that the Sphere flew the chequered flag a lap early, despite there allegedly being instructions to not let the Sphere emulate any flag (and the International Sporting Code requiring that no lighting system that big emulate the flag system unless it's actually tuned to the flag). Granted that nobody appeared to be fooled in the end, but it just felt like one more trick to try to get Red Bull the 1-2 the FIA so obviously wanted.

I was wondering if someone misunderstood that the last lap was the 'checker flag lap', still, there should have been an explanation of when and where any 'flags' could be shown on the Sphere.

I am curious though, why the FIA would want an RBR 1-2 so much?  Everyone complains they're trying to get Americans into the sport when Americans clearly prefer Hamilton, Ferrari and Perez to Verstappen.  Are FOM and FIA at odds over who 'should win'?  Is the Red Bull sponsorship an important domino, and if they were to leave the sport other sponsors would follow?  Are the Orange Shirt fans bringing that much money into the sport? I could see the FIA putting their thumb on the scale to make sure RBR wins every race, but I don't know why they'd make sure RBR wins this Las Vegas race.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Max calls Vagas “99% show, and 1% sporting event”
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2023, 06:09:55 PM »
They did have repeater lights, they were highlighted in the pre race coverage on Sky.  To me it seemed they might've gone off early, since cars near the back appeared to get off earlier than the front rows did.

How come the repeater lights disappeared by the time Yuki Tsunoda parked up on the Channel 4 highlights? Did they get edited out in post-processing?

Quote
I was wondering if someone misunderstood that the last lap was the 'checker flag lap', still, there should have been an explanation of when and where any 'flags' could be shown on the Sphere.

As well as an explanation of why The Sphere was allowed to breach the regulations everyone else is required to follow.

Quote
I am curious though, why the FIA would want an RBR 1-2 so much?

The FIA and Liberty are, for different reasons, trying to push the "Verstappen is Michael Schumacher 2.0" angle hard. The FIA, because many fans caught on to the sheer number of regulations the FIA chose to break in order to get Verstappen a title in the first place (which itself was to break the Hamilton title monopoly - it really, really should have just waited another few months to get what it wanted via honest means) and it's basically trying to defend itself against developing lawsuits concerning it and other poor decisions it made regarding Max.

Liberty's pushing the angle because investors have been selling its stocks heavily, and polishing Verstappen's status was meant to neatly distract from F1 not being quite what it was in 2020 and 2021. "Transition from one legend to another" is a storyline Wall Street can cope with rather better than "There's several good drivers bubbling under but it may be a while before any of them break through". It's not working very well because the stock selling is clearly tracking with Verstappen successes (meaning Las Vegas is probably going to be another strike against Liberty's shares), but Liberty is bad at taking hints. The entire Las Vegas weekend is further evidence at how bad Liberty is at taking a hint, even when doing so would be to its commercial benefit.

Quote
Everyone complains they're trying to get Americans into the sport when Americans clearly prefer Hamilton, Ferrari and Perez to Verstappen.  Are FOM and FIA at odds over who 'should win'?  Is the Red Bull sponsorship an important domino, and if they were to leave the sport other sponsors would follow?  Are the Orange Shirt fans bringing that much money into the sport? I could see the FIA putting their thumb on the scale to make sure RBR wins every race, but I don't know why they'd make sure RBR wins this Las Vegas race.

FOM/Liberty and FIA are in full agreement who should win every single time - the venue isn't relevant to them in this matter because that would imply either cares about their fans or customers. The trouble is that they're both at odds with their fans and customers. Red Bull sponsorship is an important domino, but I'm not convinced that this is an overwhelming factor here (several other teams have just as strong a potential sponsorship that could have supplanted it had FIA/FOM/Liberty desired). I don't think they even register the Orange Army, except as decoration.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

 


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