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Author Topic: Is 24 too many?  (Read 2951 times)

Offline Andy B

Is 24 too many?
« on: December 03, 2023, 10:58:11 PM »
2024 will have 24 races and with crews having burnout with 22 races have the FIA and Liberty gone too far?
Its not the drivers who it affects the most but the crews who are being asked to stay away from home and families for longer periods and more often so can it be maintained?
The Planet F1 article below states that maybe crews should be restricted from the number of races they can attend and if this is the case how will that affect the team on race weekends and if extra staff are required their budget.
I thought 22 was too many let alone 24 it seems to me they want more to earn more so its not about taking F1 to the masses it's about a bigger bank balance!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/unwell-f1-staff-brutal-expanding-calendar


Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Dare

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2023, 11:43:16 PM »
16   maybe 18 at most. 
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline Jericoke

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2023, 01:15:25 PM »
There's a time I'd have said that more racing is what I want.

Not now though.  When I first got into F1, I'd watch the race Sunday morning, it was basically occupying time I wasn't really using, so I could fit in races just fine.  Now there's wall to wall coverage, which I love watching, but any given race, including youtube talking heads previewing and analyzing races, I can easily dedicate 12 hours to a single race.  I can't really afford that and have time for everything I want.

So the real danger is when fans decide they're going to skip a race to make time for other things.  Once you skip a race, and realize your life is going on just fine without having seen the Oil Dictator Grand Prix, maybe it's fine to skip the Natural Gas Dictator grand prix too.  Or skip the one that is more concerned with glitz and glamour in the desert than the race.  If I'm skipping 3 races, why not 5?  If I've missed 5 am I even watching this season?  If I skip a season, do I even care about Formula One?

As luck would have it, the last 20 years of 'business' have been about 'growth'.  You need to GROW your product.  More subscribers, more users, more eyeballs.  Suddenly a couple years ago, the business world has caught up to the idea that there's a fixed number of eyeballs to fight for, and the goal isn't growth any more, but to squeeze money out of the ones you have.  Paying an absurd amount of money for 24 races if I'm going to watch 19 at most... sounds absurd.  But paying a good amount of money for 18 races sounds like a bargain in comparison.  So F1 isn't going to get more money from me by having too many races, and risks getting LESS money from me by having too many races.

As for the pressure on the teams, it's not the only industry where people spend time away from home.  The issue of course is retaining the experts who signed up for a sport where they got to spend time at/near home and now don't have that sport to participate in.  I think limiting the number of events personnel can attend is a great idea.  It limits the burn out.  It also means that teams, even the best teams, aren't always bringing 'the best of the best'.  It gives people a chance to learn and grow, and it provides more opportunities for mistakes to happen.  Hopefully those mistakes aren't dangerous, and just provide more action over the race weekend.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2023, 04:50:24 PM »
I was a NASCAR fan when it was a rare weekend that didn't have a race between late February and mid November. There wasn't a lot of fan burnout because the quality of the racing was consistently pretty good. (Of course, the logistics were much easier at that time when most of the tracks in the southeast U.S.) There is still around 40 races in the Cup series every year.

The main issue I see for F1 (aside from the monster travel and transport requirements for a top line, world wide series) is that many, if not most, of the races aren't worth watching. Add to that the fact that the cost of actually attending a race is way beyond the reach of the average fan and people loose interest pretty quickly.

Race fans want good quality racing and a chance to actually be a part of it once or twice a year. Give them a good product and they'll want more. Give them weekends when the finishing order is pretty much decided by qualifying order and a series that makes a point that sees to make a point that they are not worthy of being at an actual event and they'll move on to other racing series.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 04:57:51 PM by cosworth151 »
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline John S

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Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2023, 05:04:22 PM »


So the real danger is when fans decide they're going to skip a race to make time for other things.  Once you skip a race, and realize your life is going on just fine without having seen the Oil Dictator Grand Prix, maybe it's fine to skip the Natural Gas Dictator grand prix too.  Or skip the one that is more concerned with glitz and glamour in the desert than the race.  If I'm skipping 3 races, why not 5?  If I've missed 5 am I even watching this season?  If I skip a season, do I even care about Formula One?


Great point you make Jeri.  :good:
Personally I made the choice this term to miss practice, Quali and race at Las Vegas, I watched a race re-run a day later. I had a holiday with a non F1 friend booked when it was on and never gave a 2nd thought missing it as championship was wrapped up & it was being shown live at stupid O'clock in UK.

Apart from having to avoid media news broadcasts I can't say I missed it much. Normally I make sure my holidays are synched with non F1 weekends, but with 24 predicted that might make it a bit tricky. so if anything gives it'll be F1.  :(

Must say I find it strange that teams have agreed to 24 races, guess this number must have been signed off before cost cap put a lot of them into profit.
Can't see teams wanting this level going forward forever unless budget cap adjusted to allow 2 seperate full race crews for each team.

Might have to think of splitting championship into 2 individual point scoring halves, like F1 Street tracks and F1 GP tracks.  :D
With Sprint championship we could end up with 3 champions a year.  :DD :DD :DD :DD
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Andy B

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2023, 09:07:32 PM »
I quite agree with Dare in that 16 to 18 races per year would suit me fine!
I used to watch wall to wall TV on F1 weekends, around 6 to 8 hours over three days, but now I tend to read more about the results and mainly watch at weekends when I can see it live or close to which is not often in NZ, this probably affects my GG.
I do wonder if they look at fan burnout or if the numbers through the gate at a weekends are enough for them to ignore the year long fans to rob overcharge the weekend fans?

To be a little nostalgic I used to enjoy the Friday practice to see what developments had been made since the last race three or four weeks prior followed by Saturday practice and qualifying then there was still Sunday morning warmup prior to the race Sunday afternoon. All this without taking into account the short period of pre-qualifying.
Sadly that like V8's will never return!
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Dare

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2023, 02:19:48 AM »
20 years ago I couldn't get enough F1. I'd tape the practices
and rewatch them just for the Speed Channel Commentary.
Now watching the start and finish of each race is plenty for me.
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2023, 11:19:27 AM »
24 is definitely too many. I've yet to see proof the FIA can handle more than 20 rounds, let alone anyone else. (The fans may be the most resilient part of the equation, but if they are left wanting more after a 15-20* race season, use the opportunity to show other motorsports too - they might get interested!)

* - 15 is the minimum number of races F1 needs to uphold its TV contracts, 20 is the maximum number of F1 races the FIA has proved it can handle. No point holding more than 20 races when it results in race governance being botched. Why the FIA is less resilient than its NASCAR counterpart is a whole different kettle of fish…

At this point, it's become a struggle to watch all 46 highlights programs Channel 4 offers (qualifying and the race; the British Grand Prix is shown live on all sessions, but that feels completely different because it's worth taking time off work for 1 race fully screened live). It doesn't help that I am often expected to watch the Sky live qualifying at someone else's house as well, but even if I was not, it would still be a problem. I have to admit there's been a few rounds this year where I've had to either delay watching the highlights or (in one case) skip it because the broadcast ended up clashing with work and spoilers were unavoidable (thank you Microsoft and your assumption that everyone wants news shoved up their nose when opening a new tab, and thank you work for having some programs only work in Edge and opening the new tab as part of their launch process). If it weren't for work making spoilers inevitable, I might have watched that race later, but in the end I felt better for not putting myself through that.

Unfortunately I have to keep watching however many races there are, because of lawyers.

The numbers are quite clear that fans are switching off in large numbers everywhere except the USA and China - the former for several reasons (including American fans having more tolerance for watching part-seasons and also fans starting to watch F1 for the first time mid-season due to social media buzz about the drivers' off-track situations - I've now heard of 10 or so American fans who only started watching in the last 6 races and were asking to be caught up on what happened earlier in the year) and China because the fanbase there had got to such a low point that the fact Guanyu Zhou has a seat is enough to raise audiences. I've also noticed that in some areas, there's been a switch from overnight to 30-day figures, and a move to include online catch-up services, to generate the numbers. This indicates that F1 on this many races is not appointment TV, but is something to slot in when there's time in the same way that a drama might be slotted in at the viewer's convenience.

As for numbers through the gate, it looks like third-party resellers are a big factor now. Hard to come up with another explanation why so many sold-out venues in places with no tradition of last-minute changes-of-mind have such a large number of empty seats. Las Vegas was the most blatant example. Allegedly sold out all weekend, but people in outlying grandstands got moved to the main one for qualifying to fill gaps, resulting in half-full non-main grandstands - despite a lot of tickets being sold for those grandstands at a steep discount in the fortnight preceding the race. Costco was an example reseller for COTA and it's been an increasing trend for several years at European mainland venues (especially the ones that are less frequented by Max's Orange Army and aren't Monaco).

Sprint races seem to have made the situation worse rather than better, with a lot of the people I see ignoring or complaining about them (and certainly not watching them).
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Andy B

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2023, 07:57:18 PM »

Unfortunately I have to keep watching however many races there are, because of lawyers.


Does this mean you are paid to watch the races Ali?
I have never heard anyone say that!
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Jericoke

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2023, 10:27:57 PM »
Before I've mentioned the American NFL as the pinnacle of sport in terms of getting maximum profit from their fan base.

The team that wins the Superbowl will have played 21 total games.  While there are multiple games per weekend, and often multiple days per week with a game, the pre-eminent sports entertainment has decided that fans want to spend 21 weeks watching the sport.  (And I believe this was hugely fought upgrade from 20)


Offline Willy

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2023, 06:35:32 PM »
24 is a bridge to far.
I have never had the time or real interest to spend time watching Practice so mostly watch Quali and Race.
The new additional Sprint Races added more time that I was mostly unwilling to give. Sprint is also a complete waste of time a resources that should be spent on the race, in my view.

F1 has grown so far from the small one or two person owned teams where it started when you could actually cheer for an owner and driver.  It is all corporate bottom line now and it really does not matter to most of the sponsors if their logo is attached to a race car or a dog sled as long as it gets TV coverage.
24 races will extend that TV coverage but at what cost to the average fan who has to now find more time from busy lives to watch another race?

I know today's younger generation need 24/7 entertainment or they turn away to see what else is happening.  Hence the unstoppable music and other events at the tracks to keep the masses entertained or in their seats. How may tracks do we now see where there are rides around the track for fans to be kept at the track.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Is 24 too many?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2023, 04:30:23 PM »

Unfortunately I have to keep watching however many races there are, because of lawyers.


Does this mean you are paid to watch the races Ali?
I have never heard anyone say that!

I'm not paid, but I've now had 3 occasions where lawyers have contacted me after the FIA did something ridiculous in a F1 race that endangered driver safety. I'd feel bad if someone got hurt because I didn't do what's implicitly needed from me.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

 


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