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Author Topic: Hydrogen  (Read 3393 times)

Offline Willy

Hydrogen
« on: December 07, 2023, 06:45:56 PM »
https://www.pitpass.com/76847/F1-and-FIA-form-hydrogen-working-group

I for one have been a voice talking about the future of vehicles as hydrogen powered, not electric. Much to the chagrin of close to me as they hear the broken record drone on every time I hear another step backward in electric cars.

I laugh like hell when I see a Tesla bust into flames or stopped road side as they can't get charged.

Hydrogen fuel cell technology will be way forward and we may even be able to reconfigure existing gasoline engines to burn hydrogen as it would be a huge waste to have to scrape them.

I live in Nova Scotia Canada and we have just announced the largest Hydrogen producing facility to be built here and Germany has signed to take everything that can produce until local outlets are built.



Offline Jericoke

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2023, 07:27:15 PM »
I remember seeing the 'hydrogen is the future' videos in high school in the 90s.

Is the hold up still people expecting your car to turn into the Hindenberg?

Or is it just difficult to create/transport/store hydrogen?

I do like the idea of gas stations converting to hydrogen.  I'm surprised more gas stations don't have charging stations.  It seems so weird that charging stations are often in the middle of nowhere.  Someone has to sit for 15 minutes and you don't have any option for them to spend money on impulse at all? 

Offline Andy B

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2023, 07:42:23 PM »
Way to go Willy!
Hydrogen is the future people like to drive cars and electric doesn't do it and they are not green than anything else even here in NZ 2.5 million tons of coal gets burnt to generate electricity along with heating hospitals and schools so hardly green at all.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Dare

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2023, 10:35:30 PM »
For awhile seems like 30+ years ago you could convert your car to burn propane. Only knew one person that did it and haven't heard much about it since then
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline John S

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Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2023, 03:43:45 PM »
The big advantage for Law makers in replacing petrol/diesel with hydrogen to power road vehicles is they can tax the hell out of it without side effects on non drivers.

The biggest unanswered question is how politcians replace the mega tax take from vehicle fuel if we all have electric cars?  :DntKnw:
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2023, 06:01:47 PM »
For awhile seems like 30+ years ago you could convert your car to burn propane. Only knew one person that did it and haven't heard much about it since then

The Crown Victoria held on several years because it could be converted to propane which was great for Police Departments (they also loved the body on frame design which meant the cars could be repaired for $1,000 after doing the PIT manoeuvre instead of written off)

The main advantage of gasoline/petrol/diesel is that it's super easy to transport at scale with the existing infrastructure.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2023, 07:12:56 PM »
Around here, propane was popular for busses and commercial vehicles. They smelled like fork lifts when they were running.

Here in Ohio, the state charges an extra $200/yr to the price of licensing a plug-in EV and $100 for a hybrid. It's supposed to help make up for not paying fuel taxes.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Willy

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2023, 03:09:49 PM »
The major disadvantage to getting hydrogen is the cost to manufacture...it takes a lot of electricity to use the Electrolysis method. If the power is supplied by solar or wind then it is a win and everything is considered renewable.

Imagine a vehicle going anywhere you usually travel in you gasoline or diesel vehicle now, with a 600 -700 km range and only emitting water out the tailpipe.

And yes, Jeri, folks still think Hindenburg explosion when they think about a hydrogen fueled vehicle. Today's tech cell has gone a long way to alleviate those concerns.

Governments will find a way to tax hydrogen and the vehicles just as they tax gas or diesel now.

The real pushback will be from the fossil fuel industry as they try to squash any green alternate to their planet killing products.
This will be especially strong from the Arab oil producers as they will not easily be able to startup hydrogen producing facilities as they don't have the water.

Offline John S

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Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2023, 04:40:43 PM »

Governments will find a way to tax hydrogen and the vehicles just as they tax gas or diesel now.

The real pushback will be from the fossil fuel industry as they try to squash any green alternate to their planet killing products.
This will be especially strong from the Arab oil producers as they will not easily be able to startup hydrogen producing facilities as they don't have the water.

Yeah exactly my point Willy, governments will welcome full scale Hydrogen use because they can tax the hell out of it. Electric transport is very difficult to tax heavily as so much of the generated juice is taken domestically, can you imagine the outcry if over 60% tax slapped on electricity like it is on oil products in cars & trucks.

Arab states may not have the water however they have the dollars to set up Hydrogen plants in many other countries and live on the profits. They also have potential for massive solar arrays to serve their own countries with cheap electricity.

Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Andy B

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2023, 07:49:11 PM »
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Jericoke

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2023, 10:29:45 PM »
If F1 goes hydrogen, and creates a system that survives a catastrophic crash, that will got a long way to getting hydrogen powered cars to be taken seriously.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2023, 05:22:56 PM »
I know hydrogen safety tends to get defined by the Hindenburg disaster. Propane has powered vehicles safely for decades. Just think what would happen if you had a bag filled with propane and set a match to it.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Andy B

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2023, 07:36:00 PM »
I'm sure the wise people would sort any fuel tank issues out as having a car that produced oxygen and water while running would be a good exposure point for F1.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Willy

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2023, 02:41:29 PM »
And just think....water out the exhaust pipes would add another challenge for cars behind.
Sort of what Bernie wanted when has floated the "rain on demand" idea.

Offline Andy B

Re: Hydrogen
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2023, 08:32:01 PM »
And just think....water out the exhaust pipes would add another challenge for cars behind.
Sort of what Bernie wanted when has floated the "rain on demand" idea.

Ha ha I'm not there's that much water coming out but it may make drivers think its raining as it splashes on their visor.  :D
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

 


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