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Author Topic: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?  (Read 3833 times)

Offline John S

Sounds like fun to have a race between rookies at the end of the season, but will it really benefit the aspiring youngsters as Stephano reckons, or is it really more about monetising TV coverage for Liberty?

Sure it will give young guns an outing in race conditions, but will a field of 10 and the big machinery differences lead to any real conclusions over talent.

I also imagine it will become a money earner for back marker teams who are likely to sell the seat to the highest bidder rather than seriously be looking for their next driver. 

Whatever the reasons as a viewing fan I'm hoping it happens, can't wait to watch.  :D

P.S. Liberty had to black ball wild card entry scheme, because of Andretti kerfuffle they can't admit that grid can be more than 20 runners safely.  :DD

https://f1i.com/news/517549-f1-considering-rookie-sprint-race-for-abu-dhabi-post-season.html
« Last Edit: August 29, 2024, 12:19:20 PM by John S »


Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Online cosworth151

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2024, 05:19:39 PM »
Sending a bunch of rookies on track in competition using F1 cars might have the potential to become a very high priced demolition derby.  :confused:
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Dare

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2024, 09:23:12 PM »
Sending a bunch of rookies on track in competition using F1 cars might have the potential to become a very high priced demolition derby.  :confused:



Need a poll.   Crash in turn one   yes or no
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline Jericoke

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2024, 01:46:52 PM »
Sending a bunch of rookies on track in competition using F1 cars might have the potential to become a very high priced demolition derby.  :confused:
Need a poll.   Crash in turn one   yes or no

Certainly an interesting question.  Everyone is eager to impress, and younger drivers tend to be overconfident.  At the same time, knowing that a crash isn't going to impress anyone, there may be enough drivers who hesitate that lets the risk takers get away with it.

If this is a new addition to the season, would it come under the budget cap?  Since it's after the season's close, a wrecked car doesn't actually have to be repaired (unless it's meant to be delivered to a driver or sponsor through contract)

Offline John S

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2024, 03:37:39 PM »

If this is a new addition to the season, would it come under the budget cap?  Since it's after the season's close, a wrecked car doesn't actually have to be repaired (unless it's meant to be delivered to a driver or sponsor through contract)

Teams are all there at end of season test Jeri, with at least one car, so any extra costs will be small and can be easily covered by a special allowance section over & above the cap.

Think the biggest thing is they may need a few more personnel in pits for the actual race day. Not stated whether pit stops will be used, I assume not as it's billed as a Sprint race.
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2024, 04:12:09 PM »
Well, a rookie just crashed George's Mercedes on his second flying lap at Monza so it doesn't look good.
Lonny

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2024, 10:24:31 PM »
No point. By mid-season, most seats in F1 have gone, and by the end-of-season, all of them usually have gone.

For F2 to have a chance on the grid, it needs to finish its season much earlier (I'd suggest finishing it before the end of July, preferably before the end of June). It can do triple or quadruple races per event if needed to maintain sufficient action.

As part of that, an invitational F1/F2 race weekend around Easter, with selected F1 and F2 drivers in F2 cars with fewer restrictions on set-up items (but still spec), would help strengthen the case of F2 drivers wishing to get onto the F1 grid.

I would argue that changes need to be done to F2 itself. At this point, it's fairly clear to me that F2 is a bad way to judge if a driver is ready for F1. The drivers that are coming through are either failing, or doing fairly badly in the championship. One change needed is to tighten up standards. Yes, that would in some ways make F2 stricter than F1 on sloppy driving, but young drivers being sloppy isn't serving them in F1 the way it does established F1 drivers who think finesse and precision are for whoever they're trying to (sur)pass.

F3, conversely, can take the late summer and autumn races for its own. This would allow them to race when it is clear which F2 seats are up for grabs, helping to focus minds.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline John S

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2024, 10:53:33 AM »
No point. By mid-season, most seats in F1 have gone, and by the end-of-season, all of them usually have gone.


You make a valid point Alia, however it's difficult to see FOM or FIA making the sort of changes you suggest as we all know F2 is another act on the bill rather than a proper feeder series.

Making F1 grid 24 not 20 would be a better fix than any other solution for young hopefuls. 
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2024, 01:48:13 PM »
No point. By mid-season, most seats in F1 have gone, and by the end-of-season, all of them usually have gone.


FIA could fix that by not allowing in season contract negotiation.  Assuming that doesn't fall afoul of EU labour laws.  (Given that Football/Soccer has 'transfer season', I would expect the FIA could implement something similar)

Quote

For F2 to have a chance on the grid, it needs to finish its season much earlier (I'd suggest finishing it before the end of July, preferably before the end of June). It can do triple or quadruple races per event if needed to maintain sufficient action.


F2 is meant to be a place where drivers hone their skills as open wheel racers.  Yes, the best are meant to join F1, but it is its own series.  If the season wraps up halfway through the year, where are the drivers meant to go?  Take over the back half of another series?  Sit on the sideline not honing their skills as open wheel racers?

Given that F2 drivers moving to F1 are typically doing so as 'academy' drivers, and not simply F2 champions, the results of the F2 championship are somewhat meaningless in terms of being promoted to F1.  (That said, it is still a difficult championship to win, and drivers who manage to do so should be celebrated)

Quote
As part of that, an invitational F1/F2 race weekend around Easter, with selected F1 and F2 drivers in F2 cars with fewer restrictions on set-up items (but still spec), would help strengthen the case of F2 drivers wishing to get onto the F1 grid.

I would argue that changes need to be done to F2 itself. At this point, it's fairly clear to me that F2 is a bad way to judge if a driver is ready for F1. The drivers that are coming through are either failing, or doing fairly badly in the championship. One change needed is to tighten up standards. Yes, that would in some ways make F2 stricter than F1 on sloppy driving, but young drivers being sloppy isn't serving them in F1 the way it does established F1 drivers who think finesse and precision are for whoever they're trying to (sur)pass.

Replacing an F2 'season' with a series of one off races as support races for F1 might be better for all involved.  F1 racers who lose their seat could move back to F2 to prove they're still the best option (or, risk showing they're not as good as the other F2 runners).  I think sponsors might like knowing that 'names' can return to F2, even for one off events.

Quote

F3, conversely, can take the late summer and autumn races for its own. This would allow them to race when it is clear which F2 seats are up for grabs, helping to focus minds.

If F3 is to be a development series, they can't be racing half the year either.

Part of what F3 and F2 provide is the 'grind' that F1 drivers must endure.  Doing 5 races in a local series is nothing compared with a score of overseas races where drivers learn to live out of a hotel, adjust to time zones and manage their time and attention over a chaotic weekend.

Offline John S

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2024, 03:32:28 PM »

Part of what F3 and F2 provide is the 'grind' that F1 drivers must endure.  Doing 5 races in a local series is nothing compared with a score of overseas races where drivers learn to live out of a hotel, adjust to time zones and manage their time and attention over a chaotic weekend.

Oh and racing at ungodly hours like 7.30am in the morning to fit some ridiculous race schedule that sees hours wasted in run up to actual F1 GP.  :crazy:
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Will F1 rookie sprint race at end of year test help or hinder?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2024, 07:58:37 PM »
You make a valid point Alia, however it's difficult to see FOM or FIA making the sort of changes you suggest as we all know F2 is another act on the bill rather than a proper feeder series.

If the number of races per event is increased, then Liberty still gets its acts on the bill and the drivers still get their development practise in. In fact, the practise is more intense because they're having to do 3 or 4 races per weekend instead of 2. (I'd vary it depending on what else was on the support bill, the likely amount of time available for overall running and the risk of a big crash or bad weather resulting in enough delays to push race #4 off the schedule).

This also means drivers can do other things with the other half of their seasons, such as do guest/substitute races elsewhere. I believe that adding variety to a racer's schedule is helpful to their development, all else being equal. (Though I'd be inclined on banning drivers from doing F1-undercard F2 and F1-undercard F3 in the same calendar year, to prevent someone deliberately planning on clogging up both seats just for the sake of taking the easy option. At least go do a different F2/F3-based series, or create a mini-series for the autumn that isn't under Liberty and can also take in drivers who lost their programs in other series partway through!)

Making F1 grid 24 not 20 would be a better fix than any other solution for young hopefuls.

Agreed. Liberty doesn't like it, but that would be the biggest help.

FIA could fix that by not allowing in season contract negotiation.  Assuming that doesn't fall afoul of EU labour laws.

The EU considers transfer seasons to be absolutely acceptable, provided they're series/organiser-specific. Since F1, F2 and F3 are all organised by Liberty, this wouldn't pose a problem (and also wouldn't unnecessarily ravel up people doing other motorsports - though F1 Academy risks being involved, which is a problem in itself).

I propose that exemptions that are accepted as such by either the CRB (for contract breaches/releases) or a suitable doctor (for medical substitutions), so that unexpected part-season summonses can still be done. This would prevent the rule creating a need for long substitutes' benches simply to cover very rare situations. (Of course, it will not prevent substitution benches formed for the sake of earning extra money for the team e.g. Alpine, or because the team has non-Liberty-related seats for whom those drivers may substitute e.g. Ferrari).
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

 


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