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Author Topic: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes  (Read 929 times)

Offline Jericoke

2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« on: October 27, 2024, 11:37:15 PM »
Heroes:
Carlos Sainz.  Put in a great weekend, and drove a great race.  Had the machine to win, and the skill to put it there.

Norris.  Solid race to finish in second place.  The gap between him and his teammate is always a good yardstick, and Piastri had a forgettable weekend compared with Norris.  Lando hasn't really figured out how to race against Verstappen, but he came out on top in their fight.

LeClerc.  Second best Ferrari driver for the weekend.  Once again has a moment that shows why such a talented racer isn't champion yet.

Mercedes.  Hamilton and Russell might not have had the best cars on the track, but top five in any F1 race is pretty good.

Haas.  Double points finish.  I'm starting to think Steiner was the problem all along.

Zeroes
Verstappen.  I think the FIA shares some blame here, there are mixed messages about what is and isn't acceptable in close fights.  But if you're going off track while forcing your opponent off track, you're definitely in the wrong whatever the FIA previous rulings are.

Perez.  Honestly, just as bad as Verstappen, but further down the grid, and less opportunity to disrupt the race contenders.

Tsunoda.  Small zero.  I feel he was responsible for the Albon crash, but with cars going three wide, and very little visibility, I don't know if he could reasonably anticipate the incident without driving totally without risk, which is boring.



Offline Willy

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2024, 07:46:13 PM »
Agree once again Jeri.

Carlos has shown more then once that he deserves a seat next season so who is going to give him one.

I was happy to see stewards who finally had the balls to call Max on his crap driving not once but twice.  He has gotten away with doing the same maneuvers time and time again and finally we found stewards willing to do what needs to be done to curtail Max's unsportsmanlike conduct.
Neither the FIA nor Liberty wants to see Max called for the dirty driving he has been doing for 4 seasons now as they are afraid to loose the rabid fans and the $$$ they bring.

Tsunoda was absolutely to blame for the his shunt  and once again proved that he should be shown the door.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2024, 12:00:48 PM by Willy »

Offline Dare

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2024, 08:15:25 PM »
I also think Carlos should have remained with Ferrari and how much more proof do you need that Sergio needs to go
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2024, 10:20:13 PM »
I believe Carlos goes to Williams next year along side Albon. There is also talk in the paddock that if Sergio doesn't up his game in the final 4 races, it just might be Lawson in the 2nd bull. Can't see how the crash was Tsunoda's fault unless you think a driver shouldn't go for an opening when he sees it. If I recall the F1 replay, Ocon or Gasly moved left hitting Albon who got knocked into Tsunoda. Yuki had nowhere to go. Not his fan and maybe Colapinto is more deserving for next year, but I can't blame Tsunoda for this one.
Lonny

Offline Andy B

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2024, 07:54:52 PM »
For me CS was on top of his game, LN was doing everything right, CL not as quick as CS and it'll be interesting next year with a new team mate.

MV was on his usual games and I was pleased to see him penalised but a drive through would have been more appropriate.
SP is under extra pressure with LL threatening to take his seat he could have backed out and taken LL on the straight with the faster car.
YS is also showing signs of the pressure from beating his team mate to not so trying a little too hard hence the quali crash but I don't blame him for the start crash.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Online cosworth151

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2024, 02:41:03 PM »
One more winner to add to Jeri's list:

The Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez: A great circuit with an even greater fan base. The thin air due to the altitude adds even more spice to the mix.

I loved seeing Max finally being held to account for his actions.

And, of course, Haas continuing their comeback!  :yahoo:
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline John S

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2024, 02:20:38 PM »
Sorry to be late to the party, I've had a few days away with little internet use.
I still think Max should be considered in the Hero column as well as put on the naughty step.

My reasoning is simple, he's defending his WDC with an inferior car at present and his focus, rightly or wrongly, is on preventing Lando accumulating too many points each race to claim the season prize.
Sure it was ugly moves worthy of penalties, however I believe his tactics prevented Lando from getting the race win which would see a bigger deficit to his points lead.

Not pretty I know but where does it state in Regs that WDC has to be won gentlemanly, it's all based on points leader come season end.
So if you count the few points Max may have kept from Lando with his tactics I score him in the Hero section too. He's simply doing what needs to be done to in trying to keep his crown.

After all Senna's sometimes ugly won WDCs have not diminished his long term status in GOAT list - much to my chagrin I freely admit.  :P 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 02:22:14 PM by John S »
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Andy B

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2024, 08:01:03 PM »
John it does state in the regs that you cannot push another car off the track and you have to leave racing room MV does not do this when he's under pressure the dirt comes out.
I've never been a fan and doubt I ever will be.
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

Offline Jericoke

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2024, 08:54:00 PM »
Sorry to be late to the party, I've had a few days away with little internet use.
I still think Max should be considered in the Hero column as well as put on the naughty step.

My reasoning is simple, he's defending his WDC with an inferior car at present and his focus, rightly or wrongly, is on preventing Lando accumulating too many points each race to claim the season prize.
Sure it was ugly moves worthy of penalties, however I believe his tactics prevented Lando from getting the race win which would see a bigger deficit to his points lead.

Not pretty I know but where does it state in Regs that WDC has to be won gentlemanly, it's all based on points leader come season end.
So if you count the few points Max may have kept from Lando with his tactics I score him in the Hero section too. He's simply doing what needs to be done to in trying to keep his crown.

After all Senna's sometimes ugly won WDCs have not diminished his long term status in GOAT list - much to my chagrin I freely admit.  :P

Michael Schumacher was excluded from the 1997 championship for his unsportsmanlike actions.  If Max continues running opponents off the road deliberately, as you suggest he is, he should face the same sanction.

Offline John S

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2024, 10:45:59 PM »

Michael Schumacher was excluded from the 1997 championship for his unsportsmanlike actions.  If Max continues running opponents off the road deliberately, as you suggest he is, he should face the same sanction.


Hey Jeri I'm not suggesting Max should do this stuff and continue doing it. What I am saying is his actions lessened Lando's points haul from Mexico.

If the aim is to win a WDC at the end of a season penalty risks amongst other strategies will be used.

I simply see Max achieved an objective with his aggressive driving and surely Heroes & Zeros rates not only how well drivers raced but how drivers & teams achieved results against the odds.
I say Max falls into the 2nd category. Ugly - yes, but achieved an objective and it was not just blind aggression.

If tracks didn't have these open prairies of run off more care would be taken by attacking & attacked drivers; neither would see any benefit of being in a gravel trap or sliding on grass.   

Max is not the first champ or contender to run opponents off track, Lewis amongst many others has forced drivers wide so many times it's hard to count separate incidents. However most of it occurred before these current racing standards mandated conditional room on outside for over takers.
In years gone by Lando would not have kept his foot in so often round outside, it would be a hiding to nothing, oh and it still was in Austin. 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 10:51:41 PM by John S »
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline rmassart

Re: 2024 Mexico Grand Prix Review Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2024, 05:50:43 AM »
It's also worth noting that Max is only so aggressive when he has nothing to loose. He's quite happy to have a crash with Lando, because if they both crash that's in his interests. It was the same against Lewis in the second half of 2021. It's the advantage of being in the lead at the tailend of the season.

When trying to overtake the Ferrari's or Piastri, for example, he's way more cautios. He was on tiptoes behind Leclerc and Piastri at Brazillian sprint race. Pushing hard, but not risking and pulling out of the overtakes rather than risk a collision.

So I kind of agree with John that Max is simply maximising his chances of being champion. It's not pretty, but very shrewed racing. You don't become champion by being nice. Also, of the three drivers title contenders, Max is the only one fighting without a wingman. Perez has just disappeared, it's like he's already been shown the door by RedBull.

 


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