Are top F1 driver skills hamstrung by 26 re-gen system?

[John S]

Yes according to former F1 team principal Franz Tost. 

Drivers like Max, Lando & Alonso are having their race winning braking techniques frustrated by a certain facet of F1’s new regulations this term.

Franz in an interview with Krone.at claims “Drivers like Max Verstappen, Lando Norris, or Fernando Alonso used to be able to exploit their strengths under braking,” he also added, “But if you have to lift off the throttle 10 or 20 meters before the braking point to recharge, that advantage is lost.”

Now is he right that this makes a big enough difference, or is it simply some - drivers & teams - can handle the new PU deployment regime better than others? 

[Jericoke]

It's not new that some drivers struggle with a particular rule set.

With less real world testing, and more reliance on the simulators, I wonder if the simulators aren't accurate enough for drivers to find the edge the need to be a late breaker

[lkjohnson1950]

Seems like a contradiction, brake late, make the pass, and then be slow all the way down the straight because you didn't recharge enough. Or coast in, stay behind, and have the juice for the straight but no pass. I know the Greens have some power in the EU but racing needs late braking. Time for a rethink on hybrids.

[Jericoke]

Seems like a contradiction, brake late, make the pass, and then be slow all the way down the straight because you didn't recharge enough. Or coast in, stay behind, and have the juice for the straight but no pass. I know the Greens have some power in the EU but racing needs late braking. Time for a rethink on hybrids.

Interesting question... should the sport 'evolve' or should driving an F1 car be akin to driving the most powerful go karts out there?

Sorry, couldn't help reducing it there.  But serious question.  Should F1 remain an ICE/downforce formula and let others tinker with hybrid power systems? Or should F1 try to take a technological lead, and have the driving/racing style change as the technology does?

I'm sure there were gaps in driving styles when cars went from front to mid engine designs.  Similarly non aero drivers would have struggled in the aero era.  We've had hybrid cars for a while now, most drivers seem to have been able to adapt to the lesser harvesting of the past.  I wonder if teams/engineers are focusing on the 'efficiency' ahead of 'racing', and there's a trick in there somewhere waiting for a driver to figure it out (maybe driving against recommendation?)

[lkjohnson1950]

Most EV that you can actually buy allow you to turn off regen. My electric rc car does regen seamlessly, though not at the high rate of F1. WEC recharges the cars during pitstops. IndyCar does it while the car is under power, but EV boost only happens when the driver presses the button. There are a number of alternatives available, F1 just seems to have chosen a poor one. Teams that joined for R&D like Audi are getting lots of R but so far not much D is happening.

[Alianora La Canta]

The other issue is that the AIs keep making rubbish decisions about when to change how the power delivery works - some (but not all) determined by the regulations. It's got to the point where the fast driver is the one who can best copy the computer's assumptions, or trick the AI into letting something go.

[lkjohnson1950]

Mercedes admitted that George's problems at Spa were a programming glitch, which they say they have fixed. When computers are driving the cars, it's not F1 anymore. Piastri insists his AI isn't the same as Norris'. What a disgusting state of affairs.

[cosworth151]

Piastri insists his AI isn't the same as Norris'.

Here's a thought - could the AI's be trying to adapt to the individual drivers? For example, could Piastri & Norris have started the season with the same AI and than each AI began to "learn" from their driver?

[Jericoke]

Piastri insists his AI isn't the same as Norris'.

Here's a thought - could the AI's be trying to adapt to the individual drivers? For example, could Piastri & Norris have started the season with the same AI and than each AI began to "learn" from their driver?

This is interesting in terms of 'trickle down' automotive technology.  Engine performance mapping in consumer cars has been 'learning' since the 1990s, so this seems like an interesting area to be able to develop (and sell) software (AI) that adapts quickly and constructively.

[lkjohnson1950]

Saw where Open AI was running a "test" to see if it could hack an account. The AI escaped whatever containment they were using, got on the internet and hacked a site it selected on it's own. Skynet may already be here.

[Alianora La Canta]

Mercedes admitted that George's problems at Spa were a programming glitch, which they say they have fixed. When computers are driving the cars, it's not F1 anymore. Piastri insists his AI isn't the same as Norris'. What a disgusting state of affairs.

The way the rules are configured:

- The software has to start the same across all teams with a particular engine.

- The software more or less is obliged to finish quite differently between team-mates, let alone between teams. This is because some of the "learning" is obligatory in the technical regulations.

(Today, I asked a search engine how to clear the cache on a mobile phone I don't have, using the term "clear cache iPhone". The unrequested, unwanted AI tried telling me it was impossible. In French).