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Author Topic: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence  (Read 5641 times)

Offline johnbull

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2007, 09:20:37 PM »
The more I read about this the more disillusioned I am with the people who are supposed to be running our sport and setting an example.

I've been in this sport almost as long as Max. I remember Eugenio Dragoni and the bent way in which he ran Ferrari and had the FIA under his control.

Jean Marie Balestre was next. He was a pompus old frog git that hated the Brits.

When Max Mosley took over in Paris I thought it could be a breath of fresh air, but unfortunately the chips on his shoulder got bigger and look what he has done to F1. People now talk about it in the same breath as football - Italian football, like italian Ferrari.

The thing is that Max should be the odd one out. All the others have either been Italian mafiosi or frogs - Jean Todt exemplifies the latter. But of course we know Max's family preferences so perhaps it's no small wonder he is so anti British.

There's no hope for F1 until this lot go.

On a different tack, I almost agreed with Max not penalising the Mc Laren drivers, but now that Alonso and De La Rosa have been found to have been blatantly cheating I ask, why have they not been punished in Max's neutral court of justice?

Ron should thrown them out if Max doesn't.

I'm not British so nobody can accuse me of favoritism or of being nationalistic sticking for "English" Lewis.
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

Offline cosworth151

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2007, 01:50:14 PM »
You're dead on about the history of the FIA leadership, JB. Back in the days of the FICA vs FOCA wars, Balestre was the only person in the world who could make Bernie look like "The Good Guy." And now it looks like we'll get stuck with Jean Todt. What a mess.

I know it could never happen, but wouldn't it be great to have Tony George as the new head of the FIA?
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline cosworth151

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2007, 01:15:05 PM »
The transcripts of the WMSC hearings are now up on the FIA's website in pdf format:

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2007/September/190907-01.html

I had some problems getting them to load.

Cos
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2007, 01:55:14 PM »
So have I... ...the hyperlink's been removed from both transcripts. I wonder why that has happened.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Chameleon

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2007, 02:11:57 PM »
I can only presume that someone has already found something in the transcripts that the FIA don't want us to know.
Never mind me - read http://f1insight.madtv.me.uk/ :D

Offline monty

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2007, 04:58:11 PM »
I downloaded them and I have fully read the September document.
I am slightly biased (only slightly, I'm a Button fan but would slightly favour McLaren over Ferrari) but honestly I would challenge anyone to read the transcipt and then come to the conclusion that McLaren were guilty. Everything is proposition. There are no facts.
If this was a court of law the first thing that would have happened is the Judge (Max Mosley) would have been thrown out of court due to clear and unabiguous bias on the side of the prosecution. In areas where he didn't feel that the Ferrari QC had made a sufficiently negative point he took over the interogation of the McLaren witnesses. At one point he highjacks the dicussion and raises his own points and then actually voices his conclusion starting "that would suggest.....". No facts just his own proposition that you could take negative inference.
The only objective claim is that McLaren used the principle of a fast brake balance adjustment because Stepney had told Coughlan about the Ferrari unit. McLaren can prove that they used brake balance adjusters back in 2001 and even offered to allow independant inspection of their latest car to see if anyone can identify anything that is a copy of the Ferrari technology but this was declined.
When the transcript covers the details of the texts and e-mails it becomes clear that there is really nothing very damning. It is obvious that Stepney has discussed things with Coughlan but they were both thinking about joining Honda so it could have just been two engineers comparing notes. How Ferrari got access to these computer and SMS files begs some serious questioning. It was the Italian police that recovered the data but then it was given to Ferrari. Surely this must infringe some European data protection act?
Anyway, if I were on a jury I would have to conclude there is no case to answer. I'm serious, it's not even at the level of 'beyond reasonable doubt' there is just nothing to answer!
Everything in the transcript makes you feel that Ferrari and Max Mosley were the combined prosecution. McLaren never stood a chance.

Offline johnbull

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2007, 08:50:59 PM »
There's only one word for it.

SHAMEFUL

And let me add again, I'm not British.
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

Offline Chameleon

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2007, 01:10:17 AM »
What Grand Prix dot com has to say:

An opinion from a legal mind

Ian Mill is a Queen's Counsel, a lawyer appointed to be one of "Her Majesty's Counsel learned in the law". In order to receive such recognition and "take silk" one has to serve as a barrister for at least 10 years and one has to be eminent. Mill is a leading light in commercial litigation, intellectual property, media and entertainment and sports law. A product of Trinity Hall, Cambridge, Mill has been a lawyer since he was called to the bar in 1981 and has been a QC since 1999. He has been joint head of Blackstone Chambers since 2004. At 48 he has served as chairman of the Football Association's appeal board and as chairman of the UK Athletics' disciplinary committee. He has also been on panels for the FA Premier League and the International Cricket Council and had experienced in the world of rugby. In short his professional experience is long and distinguished. He was called in to represent McLaren at the FIA World Motor Sport Council and in his summing up of the case he gave the following opinion.

"The question is not: can McLaren prove that it has not used Ferrari’s confidential information, but rather the opposite," he said. "Is it established, to the standard that the president [Max Mosley] himself suggested was appropriate, and that is a very high standard indeed, that we did use the information? Of course not. How can it? We are left with the suspicion that the president has, based on the slightly theatrical run-through of those pages, as he stood up and showed everyone the two files. The suspicion that there is probably something in there. Fine. Then the response is not bring us back here, let alone throw us out of the championships. Rather, you bring in Mr Whiting [F1 race director Charlie Whiting]. We have issued an invitation, and it remains on the table. Do not draw conclusions against us. Tell Charlie Whiting to go into McLaren to go into the organisation and not return until, having checked it from top to bottom, he is satisfied that no use has occurred. That has not happened; I don’t know why.

"I do, however, know that if you convict us today without the FIA having done that, that will be the grossest misjustice in my professional experience."

Legal hyperbole and theatre? Perhaps, but an interesting remark nonetheless.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19667.html
Never mind me - read http://f1insight.madtv.me.uk/ :D

Offline cosworth151

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2007, 02:55:57 PM »
As of 9:55 am EDT the link to the pdf is back up. By the way, it's 115 pages.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Chameleon

Re: World Motor Sport Council to consider new 'spy scandal' evidence
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2007, 05:24:05 PM »
And, if you have the original PDF, you can copy and paste to find out what's behind the blacked out bits.  ;)
Never mind me - read http://f1insight.madtv.me.uk/ :D

 


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