result manipulation

[nightfly56]

team orders may have been outlawed but it would appear that Ferrari can still manipulate the results in favour of the driver in their team with the most points, massa's last pitstop on sunday was a perfect illustration of this I am in no doubt he could have gone on to the end maintaining position, but was bought in to the pits purely to allow Kimi to pass 

and they squeal like a stuck pig if they think any other team is using dubious tactics
this is just my opinion and not meant to cause offence to anyone but this is not the first time these sort of tactics have come into play

Mick

[johnbull]

Nightfly my friend.

You do not appear to be too conversant with the rules and regulations of the FIA ( Ferrari International Assistance.

Or perhaps it is that you read only verses from the yellow book, and not the red one.

Massa's stop was pure unadulterated team tactics, nothing else. But then they're allowed to do things like that. It's only Mc Laren that gets warned that they will receive the rath of Mighty Max if they are seen to be hindering Alonso's progress in any way. And i love the specific Alonso wording, as though it would be perfectly above board to withold Hammy's progress.

Fortunately Alonso didn't need any Mc Laren attention last weekend, for he self destructed.

I wonder if Massa will accidentally take Hamilton off at the first corner this weekend?

[CrazyHorse]

i feel sorry for massa

same with fisci when alonso won his wc, his car always broke down for very very strange reasons, usually when he was winning

but ferrari aways "push the rules to the limit" or if ur not a ferrari fan..they cheat and always get away with it

but if u think who max mosleys dad was.....

[johnbull]

but if u think who max mosleys dad was.....

I suppose it had to follow, didn't it.

Natural progression .................... or something.

[Dare]

I agree with you Crazy Horse,if Flavio and Brawn
would have let their number twos drive,who knows
how the championships would have turned out

[raindancer]

Maybe Barrichello in his initial days couldmatch Schuey but Irvine, Herbert couldn't not even Massa in real speed. Fisi was very rarely on the same second as Alonso was.
The thing with Schuey was that he always ensured he had a team mate who is half a second slower than him consistently and refused to get paired with anyone who was on par. That is why chose to leave Ferrari than be compared with Kimi.

[Scott]

team orders may have been outlawed but it would appear that Ferrari can still manipulate the results in favour of the driver in their team with the most points, massa's last pitstop on sunday was a perfect illustration of this I am in no doubt he could have gone on to the end maintaining position, but was bought in to the pits purely to allow Kimi to pass 

and they squeal like a stuck pig if they think any other team is using dubious tactics
this is just my opinion and not meant to cause offence to anyone but this is not the first time these sort of tactics have come into play

Mick

Of course Ferrari or any other team can make small changes in their strategies that effect their driver's results...what is banned is actual TEAM ORDERS (like Austria '02 or whenever that was that Ruby slammed the brakes on at the finish line).  

HOWEVER, there is nothing stopping them from manipulating things by adjusting fuel levels, making pit stop calls.  Those are not really 'team orders', and I'm glad.  The drivers are not boss, and I'm pretty happy with that.

[Monty]

Maybe Barrichello in his initial days couldmatch Schuey but Irvine, Herbert couldn't not even Massa in real speed. Fisi was very rarely on the same second as Alonso was.
The thing with Schuey was that he always ensured he had a team mate who is half a second slower than him consistently and refused to get paired with anyone who was on par. That is why chose to leave Ferrari than be compared with Kimi.

Look I'm not attacking Shumacher, he was brilliant (arrogant, aggresive, and a cheat but brilliant) but you have to understand that Ferrari operate a number one driver system. Rubens signed up for this but didn't realise how many sacrifices he would have to make. He had to give all of his data to Shuey but never got anything back. Shuey got the best engines, special tyres, favourable tactics......of course Rubens wasn't as quick. Unless of course you study testing times when they were developing all the goodies that only Schumacher was allowed to use. Then Rubens was almost always faster.
Massa signed up as number two to Shuey but thought he would be number one this season. Clearly this isn't the case and Ferrari will not let him race Kimi.

[Alianora La Canta]

Massa's fuel stop had nothing to do with team orders and everything to do with Ferrari's strategic error. When Ferrari decided to swap to wet tyres from inters, the decision was made to try to get both cars to the 75% mark, in case the Safety Car was out all race. As it happened, it wasn't, but the potential double podium was, in Ferrari's estimation, worth a try.

According to the driver tyre strategies, Massa only did one stint more than Raikkonen. The only reason why this was so was because Massa had a drive-through penalty in the race, which Kimi did not possess. Other than that, the two were on the same strategy - Massa simply eked out his fuel for longer because he was in less of a hurry during his fuel stops and therefore took on more fuel as a backup strategy. Raikkonen, who pitted earlier due to having the better championship chance, had to hurry on the first pit stop in a (failed) attempt to beat Yamamoto out of the pits.

[Steven Roy]

The big problem Ferrari have is that they say whatever they think is best at any one time.  Rubens had to sacrifice a 2nd position in Austria so they put out a stupid statement saying of course if he had been in the lead we would not have asked him to give up a victory.  12 months later he again beat Schumacher in Austria and was told to give up a victory.  So Ferrari got a double whammy.  They got grief for giving the team orders and they got more grief because they said they wouldn't do it.

Johnny Herbert never got close to Schumacher because Schumacher saw all Johnny's telemetry but Johnny wasn't allowed to see his.  Also some Benettons were more equal than others.  I have written about this before but there were races where Schumacher was a second a lap and more quicker than Johnny.  Nobody in the history of the sport was a second a lap faster than Johnny Herbert.  If Johnny had not had his F3000 accident and Nannini had chopped his arm off with his helicopter history would have been very different.  Schumacher probably would never have sat in a Benetton.

[raindancer]

I agree with Ali here completely. Lets get a perspective Gentlemen. A ten second penalty is a lifetime in F1.
Maybe you are right about "Herbert" Steven, but after his crash he was never really the same driver.
Just bringing this down to telemetry is also not fair. Ultimately telemetry is what you get after a driver has finished a lap. A Fast driver is a Fast driver !!!!! and all the telemetry will tell is how he used his car to get the time. ( In Short).

[nightfly56]

Ferrari have two faults: everything they do, and everything they say


Mick

[Ian]

Haha 

[Andy B]

Its a team sport surely team orders come into a team sport?
If they want to remove that then the championship should be decided on points for only one of each teams cars. or 

[raindancer]

Ferrari have two faults: everything they do, and everything they say


Mick

What ABout all the years they weren't winning ?