Spygate 2 - Renault

[Steven Roy]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41257

After many weeks of rumours it looks like there may be something in the theory that Renault had a load of McLaren info.

"The team representatives have been called to answer a charge that between September 2006 and October 2007, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, the Renault F1 Team had unauthorised possession of documents and confidential information belonging to Vodafone McLaren Mercedes," the statement continued.

"Including, but not limited to the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car, together with details of the McLaren fuelling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars."

Wouldn't it be a shame if Alonso signed for one season just as they landed in the crap.  And to think it was only yesterday that I read that Flavio wanted Bernie and Max to run F1 like a dictatorship.  That will be $100million please.

[romephius]

And after all the McLaren exposure, I dare say it will be $100 million and "oh, by the way, your excluded from both WDC and WCC for 2008"

That would be funny as hell, seeing alonso join just to be excluded.......

Rom

[Dare]

Just when you thought it was safe to
enjoy f1 again,more bull

As far as possessing other team info,when
drivers change teams don;t you think
they bring info with them?In that case
any team that hires a new driver is guilty
of spying

[leather12]

This new so called scandal is insane, looks like Ron Dennis is wanting some revenge, but I don't buy it...the fundamentals of F1 start to be in question..
When a team is poaching engineers from one another, it's to know how it goes at the other place, when drivers commute, they bring knowledge with them....
I like to think this is generated by the very high levels of fee, this is no more a sport, but well a business...
I remember my days of driving, we were all sportsmen, driven by our passion and driving on our own money...I can't really understand why such motorhomes are really needed, or such fantastic premises where people seem to be two miles from the track a

[Andy B]

I think a point is being missed here!
If an employee changes employer then they take technical information with them thats in their head in Renaults case it was a few cd's worth which is quite different.
If I change job then its in my contract that information I have remains confidential.
I'm sure all the other team heads would do just the same as RD if the roles were reversed.

[leather12]

I could have agreed with you, but my point is why did RD wait for so long to reveal that..
While in the proceeding of destructing F1 didn't he launch everything on the table, it gives us the bad taste that Rd uses every alley to discredit F1
Secondly, the McLaren process was juged without the two most important persons...Shall we wait for another three to four years to know about Stepney and Coughlan...
I would like to receive some comments because I'm not used to procedures in the UK.

[Steven Roy]

Ron Dennis is not trying to harm F1.  It could be argued that F1 is trying to destroy Ron Dennis.

This story has been around for months.  Any delay is due to the FIA hoping it would go away rather than investigating it.  Similarly Nigel Stepney wrote an open letter to the FIA which was published on grandprix.com in which he said he was getting info from Mike Coughlan in return for the info he was supplying.  This doesn't suit Max's agenda so he has not tried to find out if there is any truth in it.

The procedures are FIA procedures and nothing to do with any UK legal systems.  Information has always been exchanged freely in F1.  Jackie Stewart made a comment that when he was driving he had access to info from other teams.  The only reason this is spread all over the press is because Max decided he had a chance to humiliate Ron Dennis.  It is entirely personal.

The reason Stepney was not called to the FIA investigation was because of his comments about knowing where the bodies were buried at Ferrari.  There is no way Max is going to be forced into a head to head discussion with so many witnesses because he helped bury them.  Imagine Nigel Stepney in an 'open' forum telling Max that he had informed the FIA in the run up to Melbourne that the Ferrari was illegal and asking how it passed scrutineering and was allowed to keep the points it gained there.

[DragonBreath]

I think that it's in the best interests of F1 that all of these charges and rumors are brought to the surface and investigated.  The worst situation would be one in which everyone up and down the paddock "knows" that something is going on, and that the FIA doesn't look into it.  After the McLaren investigation this year, anything less than a full examination would taint ALL FIA decisions in the future.

I hate to see F1 go through this, but I think that it's important that the teams appear to be treated equally.

[Andy B]

Did RD know?
As he contacted MM once FM had made the threat about the Ferrari information I'm convinced that he was unaware of these details till then.
Does your head of company know all that is going on?
So why should RD. He made things worse and it looked worse for McLaren.
I'll admit someone in McLaren management would have known but at what level?

[Alianora La Canta]

Unfortunately the standard of proof the FIA seems to request in these cases, is so low that "equal treatment" would entail every team being banned from F1. If it is illegal to have the same ideas as another team (as is implied to be the case with the wording the FIA used to investigate McLaren's 2008 car), then the laws of physics pretty much oblige every team to break the law at some stage in their development towards the optimum solution to designing an F1 car.

[leather12]

I thank you all for your kind answers, and have to agree with what you see

[Steven Roy]

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/156979-0/the_renault_statement_in_full.html

This is Renault's statement on the latest spy scandal.  It looks to me that they are saying broadly the same as McLaren so they are going to get clobbered.  The one difference is that McLaren said that only one person was aware of the Ferrari info whereas Renault are saying that a few of their engineers saw drawings.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63878
According to autosport.com 15 Renault engineers saw the McLaren data.

[Scott]

Beware - I bet Renault will leave F1 completely before they agree to pay a fine like Max imposed on McLaren.  McLaren exist to race F1.  Renault exist to make and sell cars.  I wonder if they aren't sitting on the announcement of Alonzo joining the team until they find out what they can expect the FIA to do.  If the FIA appears to be considering similar penalties as McLaren, I think Renault will pull the plug.

[Alianora La Canta]

It sounds like Alonso has gone on holiday - a good idea, since it would be impossible to make any progress with Renault negotiations at this time. I don't know what Ron Dennis is thinking, but somehow I think his plan of acceding to the FIA's requests for the sake of closure has failed!

[johnbull]

The plot thickens.

I'm just waiting for Stepney to make a very public statement that Max just won't be able to hide or get out of.

Then the fun will really start.