Spygate 2 - Renault

[Steven Roy]

Stepney's open letter to Max that grandprix.com punlished was pretty damning but Max seems to be able to do what he wants.  In the letter Stepney pointed out that it was his responsibility to ensure that the Ferrari was legal.  He decided it wasn't so he told the senior management.  They decided they were going to run it anyway so he wrote to Charlie Whiting and he did nothing so he wrote to McLaren and told them.  So Ferrari deliberately ran a car they knew to be illegal and the FIA despite being told by Stepney and McLaren that the car was illegal let the car pass scrutineering and win the race.  To me that is something utterly shameful and should have lead to Charlie Whiting being fired.

[johnbull]

These things need to come out in the open more.

I'm sure it will happen eventually.

[SennaMan]

Stepney's open letter to Max that grandprix.com punlished was pretty damning but Max seems to be able to do what he wants.  In the letter Stepney pointed out that it was his responsibility to ensure that the Ferrari was legal.  He decided it wasn't so he told the senior management.  They decided they were going to run it anyway so he wrote to Charlie Whiting and he did nothing so he wrote to McLaren and told them.  So Ferrari deliberately ran a car they knew to be illegal and the FIA despite being told by Stepney and McLaren that the car was illegal let the car pass scrutineering and win the race.  To me that is something utterly shameful and should have lead to Charlie Whiting being fired.

quite agree SR, but only Stepney gets fired [by FERRARI for being a whistle blower - well before 'Stepneygate'] and now a publisher of his book decides not to go ahead with it!

there is a real story here and i hope it does get told

[johnbull]

What's the betting Renault will get off scot free?

Everything that has happened in the last couple of years centres around Max's jealousy stemming from many years back when he was a director of MARCH. In those days he was a direct competitor of Ron Dennis - both were manufacturers racing in F1, and we all know that Ron was by far the more successful, and still is.

Max has never been able to stomach this, and now that he is in the position he is in, he is taking advantage of that position to get back at Ron.

It's not rocket science.

[Chameleon]

Stepney's book should be interesting.  Very.

[Steven Roy]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41333

It looks like McLaren are really prepared to turn up the heat on this one.  If what they are claiming is correct then there is massively more evidence of wrong doing at Renault than there ever was at McLaren.  So logically they should be facing a greater penalty.

Given Adrian Newey's comments earlier in the week you have to wonder where this is going to end.

[Steven Roy]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19882.html

I don't know where grandprix.com get their information from but they seem to get more detail faster than anyone else.  Either that or other people are not prepared to pblish what they know.

Either way if they are close to the truth Renault are in trouble ...deep, deep trouble.

Rumour factory can you crank up production on the Alonso to Red Bull rumours again and Ghosn to pull Renault out of F1.

So the big question is what did Renault get from McLaren and who saw it. The complete dossier from the various parties are now with the FIA and we hear from our sources that these make very interesting reading. The file apparently includes 18 witness statements from Renault F1 employees, admitting that they saw the data from McLaren and an indication that this was viewed on as many as 11 different Renault F1 computers. The list apparently includes the following engineers: Tim Densham (Chief Designer), Martin Tolliday (Deputy Chief Designer), James Allison (Deputy Technical Director), Robin Tuluie (Head of Research and Development), Nick Chester (Head of Vehicle Performance), Peter Duffy (Head of Mechanical Design) and Tony Osgood (Head of Transmission Design). This sounds like rather damaging evidence against Renault given that the most the FIA could prove against McLaren was that one engineer was briefly shown a single drawing by Mike Coughlan.

The other key point, of course, is the content of the disks that Renault received from former McLaren man Phil Mackereth. It seems from what we hear that there were 33 files included on 11 discs and these featured something in the region of 800 individual drawings, which outlined much of the detail of the McLaren 2006 and 2007 cars.

[Monty]

Intellectual property being moved from one company to another happens throughout all industry sectors. Everyone knew that when the Ferrari International Assistance henchman, Max Mosley, unilaterally attacked McLaren. Now McLaren are going to 'make a point' against Renault.
I hope common sense prevails i.e. FIA retracts all penalties imposed against McLaren, McLaren in turn drops all claims against Renault and last but most important Max Mosley is sacked, publically humiliated and banned from any future positions within Motor Sport.

[johnbull]

Monty, my friend, I admire your optimism.

[cosworth151]

Like many people in the IT biz, we all had to sign non-compete clauses. If any of us leave the company, we cannot work for a competing firm for one year. I wonder if such things might one day come to F1.

[Steven Roy]

That is difficult to do in Europe because of restraint of trade laws.  The only way to do it I am aware of is to put people on personal service contracts which have a fixed term.  If with one year to go on the contract they are not prepared to sign a new one you put them on gardening leave while still paying them.  This is how it works with senior engineers etc.  It would be expensive to do it for everyone with access to secret information though.

As a normal employee a previous employer can have no hold on you.  I have signed numerous non-compete clauses over the years and both the employer whose contract is in and I know that in the event of me going to a competitor there is nothing they can do about it unless they can prove that I took confidential data.

[cosworth151]

Just the opposite over here. A few years back, the company took a third rate repair tech to court over it. He went to work for a little Mom & Pop cash register outfit a few months after he left here. The company won.

This guy was so bad, I think we should have paid him to work for the competition!

[Alianora La Canta]

EU law only allows people to be put on gardening leave for six months anyway. I'm sure that Toyota, for instance, would have put Mike Gascoyne on more than six month's gardening leave had it got the option, such was its frustration at their mutual incompatibility.

[Chameleon]

It seems to me an area in which it is pretty meaningless to legislate, especially, in F1.  The pace of development is such that any information an employee changing jobs takes with him is out of date within a few days of him starting in his new position.  Much was made of McLaren possibly having access to the plans for the Ferrari F2007 and yet the MP4-22 was a very different concept and design.  The details shared by DLR and Alonso in the famous emails were just that - details.  Even if used, they were unlikely to make a measurable difference in the performance of the car.

The whole thing needs to be put into perspective.  Teams have always watched each other and tried out tweaks they see on competitors' cars.  It's no big deal, it's racing.  If a team is so negligent as to allow its plans to come into the hands of a competitor, then they deserve what they get - and it won't amount to much because of the previously-mentioned pace of development.  Let them spy on each other - who cares?

It was the old pre-Dennis McLaren team that had a real perspective on things.  At the Swedish GP in 1978, the Brabham fan car was revealed for the first time, much to the other teams' fury and protests.  But in the McLaren pit a mysterious boxlike affair, similar to the Brabham arrangement, appeared on the rear of their car, covered in wrapping and tape to hide its true identity.  Someone had written hastily on the wrapping "FAN" which kinda gave the game away.

It was only later that the wrapping was peeled off to reveal a dustbin strapped to the gearbox.  It was eloquence itself in stating McLaren's opinion of the whole affair and gave everyone a good laugh too.

[Alianora La Canta]

I love that one! The McLaren team clearly had a great sense of humour back then...