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Author Topic: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate  (Read 4548 times)

Offline Scott

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2007, 09:34:06 PM »
c'mon Rain.  McLaren behaved better than most would with the same circumstances.  The Ferrari material was unsolicited completely don't forget.  If a package of a competitor's secrets were mailed, not many of us humans wouldn't open it up and have a read.

Their apology was orchestrated, obviously, and part of a larger deal for the FIA to get off Mclaren's back, which apparently has happened. 

Finally, McLaren ARE equal to the other teams (I thought, but maybe you and the FIA see it differently).  If we can't compare them to other F1 teams, how can we have ANY opinion?  Aren't we talking about SPORT here?

The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2007, 10:19:14 PM »
All I am asking is for everyone to be treated the same.  Why should McLaren be persecuted, Renault investigated and the others allowed to go free?

Offline Ian

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2007, 10:32:17 PM »
My thought's exactly, a level playing field as I said
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline johnbull

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2007, 10:43:31 PM »
We will never have a level playing field so long as we have Max.

The whole point of everybody's argument is not that Mc Laren or Toyota or Ferrari or Renault cheated, but the way the FIA dealt with the whole affair. Not that any of us really expected any different.

I occasionally read Autosprint. It makes you sick. Rain dancer, believe me, if you read that, even you might have second thoughts.
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

Offline John S

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2007, 10:49:42 PM »
c'mon Rain.  McLaren behaved better than most would with the same circumstances.  The Ferrari material was unsolicited completely don't forget. 


The material may not have been solicited by Ron Dennis but it certainly was part of some deal between a fairly senior Maclaren employee and a Ferrari employee, this is what marks it a bit above the Renault incident which is the more usual leak scenario of someone leaving with stuff they shouldn't take.

There is a difference, in my humble opinion, between the taking of info when someone leaves to join another outfit and supplying info to others when you are still employed and presumably on good salary.

I think even Maclaren would agree there is a difference as they suspended and seem to have dispensed with the services of one of their top men.
 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2007, 12:41:20 AM »
By that logic if Phil Mackereth had supplied exactly the same info without leaving McLaren and Nigel Stepney had been hired by McLaren then the Renault case would have been worse that the McLaren case despite exactly the same data being involved.  Or alternatively if you get someone at another team to take info and then hire them you have reduced your guilt. 

I can't see the difference.

Offline Scott

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2007, 07:41:18 AM »
Besides, I was talking about how the team's reacted, not about who had the most evil employee.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline raindancer

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2007, 08:46:02 PM »
In my opinion, Mclaren  have always set very high standards. By the apology they have diluted the standards they have set for themselves over the years.
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

Offline John S

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2007, 09:01:20 PM »
The taking of information to a new team by some one leaving is to some extent expected and can and should be guarded against by all the teams, however having to heavily guard against current employees passing info breaks down the trust in any team.

I am not saying that Maclaren should be found culpable for the actions of their rogue employee and I am horrified by the draconian punishment meeted out to the team. However I do believe the two scenarios of leaving a team with info or passing stuff from inside are quite different from both a moral and a practical standpoint.

The first scenario fits more in the misguided soul category and people swapping teams should have the confidence to believe the new team wants them for themselves and not just info from the other team. The second is I am afraid out and out spying and the perpetrators know very well what they are up to, hence it is always worse.

I concede that the teams on the recieving end in either case are equally at fault and this would only be different if it can be proved one team set out to procure the info.

No evidence that I am aware of proves either Maclaren or Renault solicited the material but the Maclaren incident still smells more fishy.
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline johnbull

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2007, 09:27:56 PM »
I wonder what poor Colin Chapman must be thinking of all this, on the 25th anniversary of his death.

Chapman got copied more than all the other constructors put together. One of his biggest COPIERS was Ferrari of course, but he didn't go crying to the FIA like a wimp.

On the other hand, remember the twin chassis Lotus 88? Ferrari didn't copy it. They just went crying to the FIA who promptly banned it.

Not much has changed in the last 25 years.
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2007, 11:51:54 PM »
I didn't realise this was the anniversary of Chapman's death.  I knew the year and the month but not the day.

Chapman was certainly copied more than anyone else and probably had more things banned depite there being no rule to ban them than anyone else.  Iremember reading a quote from him when the twin chassis car was banned.  He said he was going to paint it red and enter it in the next race.

For all its history Ferrari has not come up with many revolutionary developments.  It has tended to improve on what is already in existence and protests anything new.  The only significant advane I can remember is John Barnard's semi-automatic gearbox.  There must be more but nothing to compare with monocoques, engine as stressed members, ground effects, twin chassis etc etc.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2007, 11:48:59 AM »
I suspect a lot of Ferrari's contribution to F1 car design is in the engines (though nothing so obvious as Renault's turbos) - after all it was run by Enzo Ferrari for most of its existence, and Enzo's attitude was basically that the chassis was there to contain the engine, which did most of the work in winning.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline raindancer

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2007, 09:39:52 AM »
Good one Ali. Maybe it is that after all. An engine is an engine is an engine.
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2007, 01:46:54 PM »
Isn't it interesting how the human mind works in the middle of Xmas shopping.  I was going between two shops yesterday with F1 bouncing around my head when three facts collided with a big bang.  Max is pro-Ferrari.  Ferrari have never been the most inventive team.  Max is re-writing the regs to drastically limit invention.


Offline raindancer

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2007, 06:08:28 PM »
There you go Steven ! Innovation .............. hmmmmm
F1 cars have been at the forefront of Technology in many ways and a lot of technologies used by them have been incorporated into road cars over the years.
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

 


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