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Author Topic: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate  (Read 4505 times)

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2007, 10:26:25 PM »
raindancer you clearly haven't been watching Ron's behaviour throughout this farce.  His attitude is that he will always take whatever action is necessary to control the risk.  Hence accepting a fine that no-one feels is justified and the loss of 2007 constructor points.  He could have appealed and clearly believes he has a case which in comparison to the other cases he does but he accepted the punishment to get the matter closed.  Unfortunately it didn't work so now we have the apology.  I have no doubt the apology stuck in the back of his throat but since he and his board were prepared to write off $100 million they were always going to apologise given the opportunity.

A lot of people who don't know the facts will believe McLaren is the worst thing ever to happen to F1.  The rest of us know and have been saying since the story broke originally that spying and people taking info from one team to another is nothing new and the McLaren case is entirely unremarkable.

The matter however is far from closed as Ferrari still intend to sue McLaren and Max has effectively written his resignation by suing Rupert Murdoch.  Once those cases reach court questions are going to be asked about the McLaren and Renault cases.  Questions will be asked about why the FIA have done nothing about Nigel Stepney's open letter to Max which among other things said he was getting McLaren information in return for supplying Ferrari data and that he informed both the FIA and McLAren that Ferrari despite his advice intentionally built an illegal car for the start of the season.  Nigel Stepney had the responsibility within Ferrari for ensuring that their car complied with the rules.  There will also be questions asked about why when two ex-Ferrari engineers took data with them to Toyota and were jailed for it the FIA took no action.

To the public at large it will become clear that spying and possession of other teams data in F1 is like drugs in every other sport and that McLaren are no worse than anyone else.

Offline Scott

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2007, 02:27:03 PM »
Careful Dare...RD could be Ron Dennis or RainDancer  :D
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline raindancer

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2007, 03:06:41 PM »
Ladies & Gentlemen !
If I am a Corporate which Mclaren is ! Apologise is the last thing I would do. It is a Disaster every which way way. The overriding opinion the world over is going to be that Mclaren is buying peace so that the truth doesn't come out.
Looks like Mclaren have a very poor PR team.


Gee, if you know all about the operations of
corporates mean corporations you must be
aware that industrial spying is a way of life,not
just limited to Mcclaren.

Your so keen to punish Mcclaren,maybe Alonso needs
a 100 million fine,as he is what as known as a
accomplice in the whole matter.

  Merry Xmas raindancer
Espionage is common and a lot more dirty tricks are used. But one thing a corporate never does is "Apologise". Apology means admitting by inference. It is a PR nightmare.
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

Offline raindancer

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2007, 03:16:32 PM »
I agree with your final word Steven ! I also agree that what mclaren did was no different from thousands of Companies all over the world do. The difference is that these companies have recourse to various legal means and use it so that the truth never comes out. Unfortunately Mclaren got cought, apparently lied and got caught out again.
IMO the entire F1 community is naive if we are talking e-mails and photocopied documents or have demonstrated that inspite of the high tech they deal with, they have not even used rudimentary techniques to avoid detection.
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

Offline Dare

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2007, 03:38:04 PM »
Other companies when caught have a fair and
just legal system to prove their innocence
not the kangaroo courts of the FIA

RD you don't have a problem finding Dennis
and Mcclaren guilty,why not admit golden
boy Alonso was involved as well.
"The
democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those
who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Offline romephius

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2007, 08:38:31 PM »
I am sorry I can't hold my fingers (tongue) any more....... I am sick of hearing how Ferrari knowingly ran with an 'illegal' car at Melbourne... Please people use your functioning memories... Ferrari wasn't the only team to run with a 'flex floor', there were multiple teams, now this wasn't a blatant effort to break the rules.  Like the other teams that tried this, they were exploiting a deficiency in FIA testing.  As soon as the FIA changed their testing standards ALL the teams that were using this 'flex floor' changed their systems to pass the tests.  ALL teams on the grid exploit any advantage they can.

As for McLarens apology, I don't think they should have apologised in light of the Renault verdict, which, as far as I am concerned is the most unjust verdict this year... They were just as guilty (if not more) as McLaren and whether they left F1 or not deserved the same penalty (or McLarens penalty removed).

I am sorry about my rant

Rom

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2007, 10:18:44 PM »
Rom,

The difference with the Ferrari floor was that it acted like a mass damper which is completely illegal.  Nigel Stepney was responsible for ensuring the legality of the Ferraris and told senior management that it was illegal but they decided to run it anyway.  Then he told the FIA and they did nothing about it so he told McLaren and they 'requested clarification' a couple of days before the start of the Australian GP.

Despite all this advance notice the FIA took no action.  Then bizarrely the car passed scrutineering without any comment.  It races and wins.  Then the rule is 'clarified' and the mechanism is ilegal.

While I think Ferrari was wrong to deliberately run an illegal car my main problem is that the FIA chose to do nothing and let it race and then not penalise Ferrari in any way for its actions.

Offline romephius

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2007, 03:42:41 AM »
That's fair enough Steven but my major point was that Ferrari wasn't the only team to have that system running.... yet all people focus on is Ferrari..... that's all mate....

But thanks for the clarification

Rom

Offline raindancer

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2007, 07:50:10 PM »
Thought we were talking about Mclaren
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

Offline Ian

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2007, 08:15:17 PM »
That's called a  ' tangent ' raindancer, perfectly acceptable.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2007, 08:35:44 PM »
I was simply making the point that McLaren and Ron are being painted by some areas of the media as the worst offenders in the history of F1 whereas we have an insider (at the time) saying that the team who are piling the pressure on them deliberately entered a car they knew to be entirely illegal.  Seems a reasonable point to make to give context to my arguement.

I have no doubt that every team on the grid has substantial information from at least 5 other teams.  Although I am sure their IT departments have been very busy over the last few months.  I wonder how many teams have decided to replace a lot of computer hardware just to be safe.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2007, 03:51:15 PM »
Re: The flex floors at Melbourne-

Ferrari were not the only ones running them. The teams involved may not have "known" that they were illegal, but they cetainly knew that they were in a grey area.

My problem with the FIA handling of the whole deal is that the offending teams were allowed to keep the points scored with the illegal cars. Whether or not any further actions were taken, they should not have been allowed to score with cars found to be illegal.

As for Toyota, with their history of cheating in motorsport, i.e. the WRC, they should have gotten an even more draconian punishment.

Cos
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2007, 04:03:42 PM »
I have made the same point about Toyota on a few occasions.  McLaren with no history of cheating get the biggest fine in the history of any sport.  Toyota who were banned from rallying for using a device to get round the air limiting device receive no punishment.  Indeed they are not even investigated.  If the FIA was at all serious about possession of other teams IP what better place to start than with a team with a history of cheating who have two employees jailed.

Offline raindancer

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2007, 07:51:44 PM »
Gentlemen :
We are talking about Mclaren admittance to wrong doing. Not how other teams have cheated over the past years. By mentioning them in the same breath , we are all equating Mclaren with them and asking for punishment to them also.
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

Offline Ian

Re: Mclaren Apologise and agree to pay Costs and come clean on Stepneygate
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2007, 07:57:04 PM »
And whats wrong with that ? Is a level playing field so wrong.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

 


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