Massa V Coulthard

[Ian]

I have Neil, I blamed Felipe. 

[Neil.P]

I have Neil, I blamed Felipe. 

Just checking

Neil.P

[Cam]

I will be serious on this one, since as has been established elsewhere (and is probably true), I have absolutely no sense of humour (actually that is my sense of humour, now you see the problem)

These days it seems you have to boil everything down to single, easy to understand point, and then we frame the debate around that (has it ever been any different?).  The debate will never be resolved, because the distilled focus point is too simplistic, the reality, the complexity, is always lurking in the back of our minds but we are simply not trained to go there, it never gets resolved and we just end up sniping at each other, because we so desperately want to apportion absolute blame.

In this situation  the debate always wants to boil down to “how far alongside the leading driver does the overtaking driver need to be for it to be called a legitimate pass?”  If we can just measure that we can apportion absolute blame and sleep well at night.

In this instance it is clear from the video that. just prior to first contact, Felipe’s front wheel was alongside or slightly ahead of DC’s sidepod, which would put his nose about halfway between DC’s sidepod and front wheel, This puts him about 75% of the way past DC’s car.

So now we can have a debate about what is acceptable, is it 50%, 100%?  But as you may have guessed, I think there is a bit more to it than this.

The first thing to consider is: Take DC out of the picture, but leave Felipe on the same trajectory, would he have made the corner?  In my opinion the answer to this question is quite comfortably yes.  Felipe was not just ploughing straight ahead because of braking ridiculously late ala Kimi on Rubens at turn3, the evidence for this is 1) Both cars were at least a third of the way through the corner when the contact occurred 2) The relative speed of the cars was equal at the time of contact, in fact Felipe was taking evasive action once he realised DC was not going to yield. 3) the initial contact was much more of a glance than a slam.  Felipe was clearly making a lunge, but to me the evidence suggests he was on a reasonable trajectory as far as making the corner himself was concerned.

The next thing to consider is: Did DC have a reasonable chance of avoiding the situation? (Please note, here I am only considering  “could” he have avoided, not “should” he have)  The key to answering this question is to assess at what point did DC become aware that Felipe was alongside him.  To me this is a much harder question to answer.  I know DC made the comment that he knew where Felipe was, but this can be interpreted any number of ways, did he just mean he knew he was right on his tail, but was not expecting him to try and pass, or did he mean he knew exactly where he was through out the whole incident.  I don’t feel I can answer that question and despite DC’s statement I don’t believe the answer is clear.  These people have exceptional reactions and awareness, and we should be wary of judging them through our “mere mortal” eyes. On balance I believe DC was more aware of where Felipe was than not, but maybe he was slightly caught out, and didn’t realise Felipe was going for it until late into the piece, I think he was a bit defensive when he answered Louise Goodmans question.  However I believe he was aware enough early enough and “could” have avoided the situation.

Now consider this: IF DC has yielded at turn 1, could he have stayed ahead?  Again, difficult to answer definitively, but I think he could have stayed at least alongside through turn 1, had the inside line and better drive through turn 2, but the real question is would he get enough of a drive out of turn 2 to get ahead before turn 3, because while staying alongside would give DC a better line through turn 2 it would give Felipe the line on turn 3.  I believe it is possible DC could have stayed ahead, but I cant bring myself to say it was probable.

DC was in a very difficult situation, the only way to bring into question the validity of Felipe’s move was to force a collision.  Even if Felipe was completely in the wrong, If DC had given him racing room and Felipe had got past that would have been it, the discussion would be very different.

Personally, I don’t like drivers driving into each other, I would have much preferred to see DC take evasive action and try to stay ahead.  A classier driver would have lived to finish the race.  The most thrilling moments are when they are wheel to wheel but don’t collide, ala Massa and Alonso last year (was it Japan?) There despite Mass’s aggressive behaviour, Alonso avoided a collision, that was breathtaking.  Running into each other turns the show into WWF1.  Don’t get me wrong, sometimes you have to do what has to be done, but that is just stating my personal preference.

So what is my verdict?  Massa made a borderline but not entirely unreasonable move, DC had could have avoided the situation and still had a chance of staying ahead.  If you hold gun at my head and say I have to make a choice I would say Massa but only by the tiniest of margins, In reality my verdict is that the responsibility is so close the equal that you need a third button “racing incident”

cheers,
Cam

[Neil.P]

Cam,

It seemed to me that some people were placing the blame on either driver, where in actual fact it was most probably, like you say a racing incident.

Because this could be a slightly contentious issue, I thought the easiest way to avoid all the sniping and get to the nitty gritty was to start a poll where people can just click the button and leave. So far so good.

Cheers Cam.

Neil.P

[howie]

It is so obvious, the gap was there, Massa got along side DC and DC just turned, clearly he was just not aware Massa was there, a man of experience should have known where Massa was. DC fault totally.

[Cam]

Cam,

It seemed to me that some people were placing the blame on either driver, where in actual fact it was most probably, like you say a racing incident.

Because this could be a slightly contentious issue, I thought the easiest way to avoid all the sniping and get to the nitty gritty was to start a poll where people can just click the button and leave. So far so good.

Cheers Cam.

Neil.P

Hi Neil,

Fair enough, I just wanted to add my 2c worth.

Unfortunately because I'm in racing incident camp I cant vote and see how its going.  I had assumed that everyone would be picking Felipe, but then along came Howie!

cheers,
Cam

[Neil.P]

Thanks for voting howie, welcome along

Neil'P

[Steven Roy]

http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/massa-caused-coulthard-crash-schumacher/

According to Massa's coach Michael Schumacher the accident was caused by Massa.

[romephius]

That was excellent of MS, very down to earth assesment, I almost expected a bit of a 'glowing' Ferrari just didn't give their drivers the complete package on race day.  But it was great to see that he (rightly) placed most of the blame on Filipe.... I don't think even DC could deny he was partly at fault.

Rom

[J.Clark]

Frankly, I would have liked seeing a third option - "Racing incident" but if blame must be laid, I put it on Coulthard.

By David's own admission, he knew Massa was much faster and he said he knew he was coming.  It seems to me that given these admissions, were I in his seat, I would be expecting Massa to come up under me at every opportunity and would therefore be keeping an eye out for the moment at every corner.  He even said that he was prepared to let him by at turn 3.  Sorry David, but a slower car does not always get to decide when they will be passed and perhaps more importantly, a smart veteran race driver knows that it is better to finish the race than be punted out of it (likely if one isn't watching closely as the faster car catches up).

It is my belief that David simply did not expect Felipe to make a move at that corner and probably was not watching for him.

[Neil.P]

Hiya, I've chosen to let everybody see the results now

Neil.P

[Steven Roy]

I have to say I find it incredible that when Michael Schumacher is saying most of the blame is Massa'a that people are still blaming Coulthard.  Why would Schumacher blame Massa if there was the slightest chance that he thought it was Coulthard's fault.

[John S]

I have to say I find it incredible that when Michael Schumacher is saying most of the blame is Massa'a that people are still blaming Coulthard.  Why would Schumacher blame Massa if there was the slightest chance that he thought it was Coulthard's fault.

Just because he is a multiple world champ we are still entitled to our opinion on the subject. Schuey may have been using the opportunity to put pressure on massa to drive more defensivly, as he feels this behaviour will yield more for the team in the long run.