Max survives vote of confidence

[Steven Roy]

Of course it was a joke.  The previous line was 'excuse my ignorance.....'

[romephius]

It's all good guys... I was agreeing with Ian because of my statement... I feel it was overly aggressive to Sennaman... at the time I felt he was rather harsh in his statement and took it personally even though i wasn't mentioned... that's all

I can't wait for this canadian race though.... it's gonna be gooooooooood

Rom

[SennaMan]

It's all good guys... I was agreeing with Ian because of my statement... I feel it was overly aggressive to Sennaman... at the time I felt he was rather harsh in his statement and took it personally even though i wasn't mentioned... that's all

I can't wait for this canadian race though.... it's gonna be gooooooooood

Rom

thanks Rom, I am quite relaxed about any perceived aggression as I welcome robust debate and passionate views even if some cannot keep within reasonable bounds of debating protocols.

However, if some of the members carefully reread my posting they will see I do not support max as FIA President at all, only this despicable way of getting rid of him - a sting operation involving illegal and gross invasions of privacy.

He and the FIA in many ways are an anachronism in this millennia - the "Stepneygate" and the consequent "Renault Spy Saga" decisions were an absolute disgrace to any concept of justice for example - and need to drastically reform their structure and processes or be consigned to the 'dustbin' of history.

I actually think max should be replaced within a much reformed FIA as dictatorships have no place anywhere in our world. This current saga may yet prove to be the start of much needed reform.

Also, which should be obvious from my earlier posting(s), I am vehemently against the "gutter press" that unfortunately seems able to operate with relative impunity especially in the UK, and I await the results of litigation against the NoTW newspaper with much interest.

If they win then God help us all as anyone could be a target of their and similar publications' muckracking.

We are indeed fortunate to be living in Australia Rom for this and many other reasons but that is indeed a matter for another forum.

Yeah, roll on the racing Rom.

[CrazyHorse]

 

[cosworth151]

I think we can all agree that Max is a disaster for the sport and must go. The only disagreement is the how and why.

Like SennaMan, I think Max's personal life is just that, personal. I've seen too many good people driven from office over that kind of thing. Here in Ohio, we just had an excellent state Attorney General forced from office because he's been with a prostitute. And I won't even go into the Clinton matter.

The damage that Max has done to the sport during his tenure at the FIA is more than sufficient to boot his backside out of office and into the Old Despots' Home.

I mean no offense to anyone by this (except Max ). Just my opinion.

[Ian]

  No harm done, sorry lads I did'nt read them fully. 

[johnbull]

I think we can all agree that Max is a disaster for the sport and must go. The only disagreement is the how and why.

I agree too. Can he possibly feel comfortable with all these people taking the p*ss all the time, because that's exactly what is going to be happening.

Max's problem is that he is putting his own ego and personal grudges before the interests of F1, something he has been doing for years.

OK so now he has won the vote. He has proved a point. Now can he please p*ss off once and for all, before he created any more havoc.

[Chameleon]

Let's nail this "his private life has no bearing on the matter" crap once and for all.  Like it or not, the fact is that everyone's morality does affect the way they do their jobs.

Consider this:

You're the CEO of a bank and need a new general manager.  Two guys apply; they are equal in qualifications but one is a convicted embezzler, the other a feller who has proved his honesty over and over again.  Which one are you going to take on?  And don't tell me you'd give it to the embezzler because he's done his time and deserves the chance to prove his rehabilitation.  If you did, you'd be guilty of gross negligence, endangering the investments of your customers.  Your job is to ensure that your investors get the best return on their money and not to endanger that money on well-intentioned but unnecessary risks.

In Max's case, whether or not the NOTW have been guilty of breaking the law in releasing details of his hobbies, his morality has been shown to be flawed in that he assisted in the exploitation of women for his personal lusts without regard for his standing as President of the FIA.  He has been shown to put his own needs above those of the organization he is supposed to serve and we can expect that he will follow his own agenda in the performance of his job therefore.  The NOTW revelations are most revealing in that they explain many of the apparently self-motivated decisions taken by Mosley in his governance of F1.

We may not like the gutter press and its methods but that is a separate issue.  They have chosen to make money by pandering to the prurience of the many and they take their chances of litigation as a result.  Their editor could be said to have done a fine job for Mr Murdoch in that he has found a story that shifts millions more papers, at least for a while.  Once again, morality proves to be a deciding factor in how well a man does his job - in this case, it is an advantage to be so unconcerned about another's privacy.

But Max is not the editor of NOTW.  He is the president of an international organization that needs to be seen as respectable and fair.  His morality alone is sufficient disqualification for the job.

[John S]

I agree with you Cham, unfortunately at this time a majority of the FIA council doesn't.
I personally find it hard to see a way forward for most parties without Max resigning and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Max also realises this.
I'll wager that, after giving a little time for his detractors blood pressures to go through the roof, he will step down. He has needed, for his own peculiar view on life, to prove he can still call the shots. The trouble is there are only blanks left in the armoury 

[cosworth151]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, Cham. Embezzlment has a direct connection to banking. By defintion, embezzlment has victims. Private sexual activity has nothing to do with running the FIA. Since everyone involved were concenting adults, there were no victims. I see no moral issue here.

I'd be the first to say that Max needs to go, but he needs to go because of his abysmal job performance, not for this.

[Alianora La Canta]

Prostitution very often (though not always) has victims - the ones being paid to have sex are often exploited by their bosses in their line of work. However, Cos, I can see where the rest of your argument is coming from. Though Max's inability to handle the consequences of the matter  after it reached the ears of the press speaks to his ability to handle any other controversial matter that may occur during his tenure as President (whether it is a person/ethical matter or not), and therefore it does fatally affect his ability to do the job, albeit in a rather circuitous manner (as opposed to Clive's example, where embezzlement itself affects the ability of the embezzler to competently do any job involving access to money).

[SennaMan]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, Cham. Embezzlment has a direct connection to banking. By defintion, embezzlment has victims. Private sexual activity has nothing to do with running the FIA. Since everyone involved were concenting adults, there were no victims. I see no moral issue here.

I'd be the first to say that Max needs to go, but he needs to go because of his abysmal job performance, not for this.

Entirely with you on this, cosworth151 - and sooner the better for the sport we love mate!

[John S]

Private sexual activity has nothing to do with running the FIA. Since everyone involved were concenting adults, there were no victims. I see no moral issue here.

I Believe this falls under the heading of bringing the FIA into disrepute. Public moral codes are not necessarily what we all would like them to be and are a lot more conservative than we often believe,  the furore and outrage suggests public morals do not yet condone this bizarre behavior.
 
I share the apprehensions of public figures being judged on their private lives but it does appear that the PR perception of this particular affair, for most businesses and organisations, is very negative and makes Max's position untenable.

Whilst what Max did may not be strictly illegal from his part, it may be that the other participants were acting illegally, the law in Britain makes a distinction between one sex worker and multiple sex workers at the same premises. Max like all public figures understands care must be excercised in your private life, it's not the deed but getting caught in the act that brings them down.

The conclusion therefore for the big majority of public figures is to refrain from activity that can lead to this sort of firestorm, it's this self denial that makes them worthy leaders.

[raindancer]

I think the fact that a high official indulges in Fantasies, S&M behaviour  says a lot about that person's mental and character make up. I think most people should be judged in situations where they think they will not be found out or when they think they can get away. Will a man stop from forcible sex , if he thinks he can get away with it due to various circumstances ????
The fact that Max has to indulge in these escapades at his age itself is a clear indicator, that all is not well with him mentally as well as psychologically.
He may be capable of great harm if he is allowed to continue. The fact that he thinking that he will not be found out led him to indulge in his darkest fanstasies while maintaining a facade in his other social interactions. Do you know what he may be thinking ?
These are the type of people who perpetuated an age of horror when given free rein by a dictator and this proves that they exist among us.

[Dare]

good points Raindancer