Will Torro Rosso have to be sold?

[John S]

Gerhard Berger, who won eleven races in his lengthy career as an F1 driver, has confirmed speculation that Mateschitz plans to sell Toro Rosso on should the ruling on 'customer cars' go against the Italian outfit. The race-winning STR3 is, of course, closely related to Red Bull Racing's RB4, having both come from the pen of Adrian Newey and been fabricated by Red Bull Technologies, and would contravene any future ban on teams using the same car.

"From 2010, Toro Rosso might have to be a designer, that is develop and build its own cars," Berger confirmed, "That will require even higher investment in spite of the cost-cutting measures currently being talked about in F1. From that viewpoint, it has to be believed that, if Didi Mateschitz can no longer supply two teams from one technology pool, the sale of Toro Rosso is very likely."

Gerhard has speculated that he could return to the Formula One paddock in an official capacity in the future, despite having severed his ties with Scuderia Toro Rosso and Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz earlier this week.

The Austrian, who had been in a 50-50 partnership with Mateschitz until the drinks magnate bought back his share in the team, admitted that he would have loved to remain involved with the improving STR operation, but could not afford to be financially involved after attempts to attract further backers on board came up short.

"I would have gladly continued with Toro Rosso, but I could not finance it by myself," Berger told Austria's APA news agency, "The necessary conditions to make the next step are no longer there, and it has never been my style just to be here for the sake of it.

"Without Red Bull, I see no chance of moving forward in F1, and I don't want to take a step backwards after what we have achieved this season. For me, there is no alternative, except possibly a strong car manufacturer [as partner] but F1 has not yet realised that, below the manufacturers, there is no basis for running a team. Last year, just three new sponsors came in, and were all business-to-business models. For the back of the grid teams, there is almost nothing."
Berger's comments underline the belief that Mateschitz is prepared to sell Toro Rosso should the 'customer car' ruling go against the minnow - a move which, if no buyer is found, could potentially take F1 down to just nine teams. Mateschitz has said that he will remain committed to his second team through to the end of the 2009 season, after which all teams are likely to have to build their own cars.

There is also speculation, however, that Berger and Mateschitz did not see eye-to-eye over the future direction of Red Bull's second team, with the Red Bull boss keen to install Takuma Sato - who could possibly bring money from Japan for his F1 return - in place of Sebastien Bourdais, and possibly swap Toro Rosso's Ferrari engine supply back to the senior Red Bull Racing team, which was overshadowed by the Faenza outfit as it struggled to generate the same sort of pace from its Renault V8s.

Despite bowing out of the top flight, however, Berger insists that his absence isn't necessarily going to be a lengthy one. Prior to taking up the reins at Toro Rosso, the Austrian had been involved with BMW's return to F1 with Williams, and has also commentated on the sport for German language media.

"Don't worry," the infectious 49-year old smiled, "It is quite possible that I will be back some day."

Report from Crash net

[Dare]

It's a shame when people like Berger and Arguri
are forced out of a sport both clearly love.

It seems to me the only problem with customer cars
occur when they beat the A team

[cosworth151]

It would appear that Paul Stoddart agrees with you, Dare.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/18092008/13/monza-win-death-knell-customer-cars-stoddart.html

Honda did ax Super Aguri for showing up the A team. The problem now, however, is the case brought against SA and STR by Williams and Spyker. This is ironic because Spyker is now Force India, which intends to use customer cars from McLaren.

The current "letter of the law" outlaws customer cars all together starting in 2010.

[Dare]

I wonder what Force India was thinking?With the end
of customer cars what are their plans for the future
after 2009?

[Chameleon]

Force India make their own chassis and, as long as they continue to do that, they are not a customer car team.  The deal with McLaren is for engines, drive train and certain ancillaries - and these have always been bought in by smaller teams.  The chassis is the big expense that makes all the difference, requiring design and manufacturing facilities, and this is what Williams objected to in the case of Toro Rosso and Super Aguri.

Toro Rosso will not find a buyer unless customer cars are allowed.  If Red Bull are not prepared to invest money in restarting the old Minardi chassis-building facilities, why would anyone else?  STR's only hope is that agreement is reached between FOTA and the FIA on customer cars very quickly - and I can't see that happening, since Frank Williams' objections remain.  Mateschitz might keep the team going next year to see if he can find an idiot with enough money to buy it, but far more likely is that he'll shut the team down before the season starts.

It has nothing to do with being "embarrassed" by STR's performance in 2008, however.  It's Mateschitz's team as much as RBR is and he was as chuffed as they were by the win in the Italian GP.  It's about plain old economics, just as it was in the case of Super Aguri.

[Alianora La Canta]

Force India's gearbox department consisted of only two people this year for a reason - as late as 2006, they were buying in the gearbox from subcontractors and rebadging it. In its Jordan guise, it bought in a massive number of components and even subcontracted the "mass-production" of its chassis to David Price Racing. It was only the prototype that was built at Silverstone. The factory has had more to do in terms of production in recent years as work has been brought in, but there's nothing unusual about Force India buying lots of stuff from outside. It's not even going to upset the working routines that much.

Force India needed a new supplier because Ferrari couldn't make its mind up whether it was using KERS or not. McLaren could, so at least with McLaren the 2009 car could be signed off at some point before, say, mid-January.

The question isn't so much what Force India was thinking as what Mercedes was thinking.

It wouldn't surprise me if Force India still end up objecting to full customer cars, if only to protect its negotiating power with McLaren. And that's before Frank Williams is considered. I can see STR doing the whole season simply because quite a large proportion of its expenses for the year will already have to have been spent and it will still offer a good marketing kick, but 2010 is not looking good.