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Poll

Do you think it was fair to dq Hamilton

yes
9 (47.4%)
no
10 (52.6%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Author Topic: Was Hamilton's dq fair  (Read 6284 times)

Offline John S

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Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2009, 02:26:52 PM »

I think Lewis' disqualification and the previous time penalty on Trulli are both equally unfair but the trouble is the damn stupid rules that say a drive thru cannot be appealed. When they award a time penalty after the race it ought to fall under a separate heading so an aggreived team can ask for the whole thing to be looked at again just in case the time pressure on Stewards, just after the race,  has not allowed a full and proper investigation.

The injustice of the punishment meeted out to Toyota was always going to fester and at least an appeal could have looked rationally at everything and changed the results back. The only avenue left for Trulli to be cleared was for McLaren & Lewis to take the blame. The Stewards, who appear to have failed to investigate thoroughly, could not possibly be at fault. :(

The Stewards need to be more certain of their facts before they issue the after race time penalties.  Relying on the competitors word of mouth when indisputable evidence is available from telemetary, video and radio traffic means they are always likely to be in a position of asking turkeys to vote in favour of Christmas, with the inevitable fudged answers.

Too many decisions and punishmants in the last few months have not bourne scrutiny or been logical, look what happenned to Vettel for being apologetic about the Kubica collision which sealed his fate with a grid drop, if being sorry about things becomes proof of guilt there is no hope for all of us.


 
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline johnbull

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2009, 02:44:14 PM »
I couldn't agree more, John.

It's getting beyond the joke. The grid for tomorrow's race looks nothing like today's qualifying, and this has to stop. It's even difficult for F1 nuts like us to follow. Just imagine the poor casual viewer.
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

Offline Number 38

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2009, 08:30:56 PM »
Scotty D .....  all this over ONE point ?  ONE point ?
Let's do the Math: 

As they finished:

Trulli 3rd   =      6  pts
Hamilton 4th  =  5  pts
Glock 6th   =     4  pts

Toyota    10 pts
McLaren    5 pts

Hamilton lied, fibbed, gave mis-leading statements , all the above
The FIA then penalized Trulli and look at the result:


AFTER the penalty:

Hamilton    6  pts
Trulli         0  pts

McLaren    6  pts
Toyota      4  pts

There's MORE at stake than ONE point !!!!!

And let me ask, would YOU do this to a fellow competitior for ONE point (or more) ?






Offline Scott

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2009, 08:44:47 PM »
I was speaking about Mclaren's motivation for misleading = 1 point
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Number 38

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2009, 11:58:18 PM »
Hi scotty,

I read between the lines and knew what you meant but I've got time on my hands and thought I'd play for awhile, but, I did notice you avoided my question:

" let me ask, would YOU do this to a fellow competitor for ONE point (or more) ? "

I know, I know, the question is retorical But McLaren did ..... you never know there might be others !

And now that loony-tune fruitloop MadMax is talking about further inquiries ............
Another $100 million from McLaren ? 

The other nut named Bernie has been talking THREE new teams next year, not if they see the scandels/penalties they're steping into!

Welcome to F1.



Offline Steven Roy

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2009, 01:58:49 AM »
I find it interesting how the internet reacts to these things.  Apparently the team told Hamilton to give the place back.  Not true.  The management did not have a meetingto discuss the decision.  The guy on Hamilton's radio told him to give it back then within seconds told him not to.  If someone tells you to sit down then instantly tells you to stand up does that constitute them giving you an order to sit?  I don't see it that way.  Especially if you are arguing like Lewis was at the time.

Lewis lied to the stewards about this.  For it to be alie it would need to be clear in his mind that the team not just the guy on the radio had given a clear instruction to give up the place.  Instead he was told give it up, don't give it up, don't take it back, we are asking Charlie.  That does not sound like an instruction to me.

Trulli meanwhile left the circuit under yellow flags which is a serious safety issue and deserving of a penalty but instead that is ignored and what was said in the stewards meeting has become the main talking point.  To me the most important facts in racing are those that happen on the track not in the he said she said arguments afterwards.

If Hamilton had qualified with an illegal wing would he have been in Trulli's position to be involved in the incident or would we be having a massive FIA campaign on how McLaren had been caught cheating again?

Offline Dare

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2009, 02:15:02 AM »
Steven are you saying that going off track should
be punished with a penality?I don't think so,if the
safety car hadn't been out Trulli would have post
the position fair and square.I don't think the FIA
singles out Mclaren every chance that's available.
Plenty of the other teams are ubder FIA scrutiny now as well
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline John S

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Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2009, 12:29:53 PM »
Hi scotty,

I read between the lines and knew what you meant but I've got time on my hands and thought I'd play for awhile, but, I did notice you avoided my question:

" let me ask, would YOU do this to a fellow competitor for ONE point (or more) ? "


Do what exactly?  It was always the Stewards call and they got it wrong because they failed to look at the recorded evidence at the time? I am still pretty unclear about just what the Stewards big beef is, they had access to the radio traffic so why did they not check this themselves? :DntKnw:

The real truth is they screwed up and needed to blame Macca for their own failings, namely to make all the correct checks before imposing the time penalty on Trulli. We still don't know from the two cars telematary whether Lewis did slow to let Trulli through or if Jarno pushed on anyway.

What is the point of having all that technology and failing to access it for the after race enquiry on occassions like this? I haven't seen any apology from the Stewards for their shoddy work over this affair.

Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline johnbull

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2009, 02:13:12 PM »
Steven are you saying that going off track should
be punished with a penality?I don't think so,if the
safety car hadn't been out Trulli would have post
the position fair and square.I don't think the FIA
singles out Mclaren every chance that's available.
Plenty of the other teams are ubder FIA scrutiny now as well

I'm afraid that for once we are in disagreement.

Max in particular, and the FIA officials - vide Charlie W etc, do definately have it against Mc Laren. I would have thought that's an undisputed fact by now. You see it every time in the penalties meted out to other teams in relation to those meted out to Mc Laren.

But what is even more scarey is the fact that it seems that Lewis Hamilton too is increasingly coming under the FIA spotlight, in most cases unjustly. Some say it's a racial thing. I hope they're wrong but to be honest I can't completely disagree. When you look at Max's past, the pointers all indicate something like that.
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

Offline Scott

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2009, 03:23:39 PM »
I was speaking about Mclaren's motivation for misleading = 1 point

More on that...

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3261_5142955,00.html

The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2009, 10:50:08 PM »
I'm going to go ultra-cynical here and suggest that the FIA are looking for any excuse possible to plug its finance gap. McLaren just happened to offer the opportunity first.

Expect a fine of at least $4m, whatever else happens on April 29.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline John S

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Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2009, 11:03:12 PM »

Expect a fine of at least $4m, whatever else happens on April 29.

That's half a years engine supply for some teams, bloody ridiculous amount. :confused:
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2009, 11:05:34 PM »
I cite the amount because that's the approximate size of the FIA deficit for this year and next combined. It could well be more, especially if the FIA feels the need for headlines. After all, it will have to go some to beat the $100m of last time it decided to levy a big fine.
Percussus resurgio
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http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Monty

Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2009, 08:53:17 AM »
Opinions will always vary. One thing I genuinely believe is; if this had happened to any team other than Maclaren the FIA would not pursue it.
Let us also not forget that apparently Lewis (and possibly Dave Ryan) did not lie they simply did not volunteer information. The 'noise' coming out from the team is that Dave Ryan was furious that Lewis had been given the wrong instructions from the pit wall and decided to 'get the correct result' from the stewards meeting (i.e. 3rd place for Lewis).

What really does my head in, is that everyone must have known that Lewis had let Trulli pass. Lewis said so in TV interviews immediately after the race and the on-board shots had probably already been viewed by the Stewards by the time they called Lewis and Dave Ryan to the meeting.
In other words, they did not need to have a meeting with Maclaren so therefore there should never have been the opportunity for Maclaren to 'mis-lead' anyone.

Max and the FIA must stop pursecuting Maclaren. They are as essential to F1 as Ferrari are. The sport needs these big teams. There is no doubt that Maclaren have made some stupid decisions but in most cases their penalties have been draconian and unjust.

Offline John S

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Re: Was Hamilton's dq fair
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2009, 10:22:55 AM »
Opinions will always vary. One thing I genuinely believe is; if this had happened to any team other than Maclaren the FIA would not pursue it.
Let us also not forget that apparently Lewis (and possibly Dave Ryan) did not lie they simply did not volunteer information. The 'noise' coming out from the team is that Dave Ryan was furious that Lewis had been given the wrong instructions from the pit wall and decided to 'get the correct result' from the stewards meeting (i.e. 3rd place for Lewis).

What really does my head in, is that everyone must have known that Lewis had let Trulli pass. Lewis said so in TV interviews immediately after the race and the on-board shots had probably already been viewed by the Stewards by the time they called Lewis and Dave Ryan to the meeting.
In other words, they did not need to have a meeting with Maclaren so therefore there should never have been the opportunity for Maclaren to 'mis-lead' anyone.

Max and the FIA must stop pursecuting Maclaren. They are as essential to F1 as Ferrari are. The sport needs these big teams. There is no doubt that Maclaren have made some stupid decisions but in most cases their penalties have been draconian and unjust.

Hear! Hear! Monty, couldn't have put it better myself. :good:

Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

 


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