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Author Topic: only one man's opinion?  (Read 4546 times)

Offline bo bruce

only one man's opinion?
« on: April 30, 2009, 02:49:48 PM »
Upon sharing the latest "cap" news with a fellow F1 fan, he replied the following. i thought it was good enough to have this informed group to read and comment. i did get his permission to post this :)
____________________________________________________________________________________

Some cost-capping is probably a good thing, at least in theory.  Having a
double-standard (some with caps and others without) seems like comparing
apples and oranges (some teams can use technological advances, others
cannot).  I don't like that.

Tyre warmers out - definitely.

Refuelling ban.  I understand the cost cutting implications, but it seems
more logical to me to have refueling as a more realistic happenstance in a
race, than this dopey necessity to use widely different tyre compounds (oh -
and don't teams pay Bridgestone for this? - and what about the costs
involved with all that development and logistics of traipsing them around
the world?).

I agree it is a very wasteful sport.  However, it is freakin' F1 for
goodness sakes.  Get rid of all the stinking aero crap, create a reasonable
budget cap, and let the teams loss to develop what they want (i.e. different
engine configurations).  I'm tire of hearing all the proposals for spec
items.

Ultimately, it's all about Bernie's show and the ability for him to keep
lining his pockets.  Racers want to go race!!  I don't like watching parades
instead of races either, but FOTA hasn't come up with anything to help with
passing.  The diffusers work against it and all the aero aids disrupt the
air.  It's become more about the cars than the drivers, in some aspect.  Who
ever has the better car wins (stupid statement, but all these drivers are
good oar they wouldn't be in F1 - ok, with a couple of exceptions, but you
know what I mean).  There ARE a few drivers that seem to be able to work
with a difficult car - Alonso comes to mind.

Hey - wanna save some money?  Don't be taking the circus to the far corners
of the earth!!  Oh yeah - they're the one willing to pay the ransom for the
races.

I love F1, but like so many others, it has become this huge political
beast, with all the entities intertwined.  Teams buy in , get cuts of
revenues.  It truly has become a business above and beyond the crux of the
whole point (for a spectator, to go back to that for a moment), which is to
see interesting, competitive racing.  And, diversity, for me, can add to
that.  At the rate it is going, it will be F1 (one Formula).  If I want
that, there are a number of other racing series I can watch.  I'm surprised
Max hasn't proclaimed that restrictor plates (ok, some form of fuel
regulation, since there aren't carburetored).  Look at DTM - these cars
slide around, it's competitive (from what little I've seen), and fun to
watch.  Too bad that's not more coverage of that!

Seems like the regulations are like band-aids, and not logical progressions
to get to an end point.  They change and flip-flop form year to year.  Hmmm,
likt that doesn't cost money (and I've already alluded to the cost of
night-racing).


hApPy tRaiLs

Offline Steven Roy

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2009, 08:34:06 PM »
The team that wins the budget cap clas will probably be th team with the best currency traders/  Each team is going to have to operate a hedge fund to stop any one currency from moving and putting them over the cap.

Offline Jericoke

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 08:58:18 PM »
The team that wins the budget cap clas will probably be th team with the best currency traders/  Each team is going to have to operate a hedge fund to stop any one currency from moving and putting them over the cap.

So who gets the advantage here?
English Teams?
Italian Teams?
Toyota?
BMW?
Which teams are in the Euro Zone?

Offline johnbull

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2009, 10:03:27 PM »

So who gets the advantage here?
English Teams?
Italian Teams?
Toyota?
BMW?
Which teams are in the Euro Zone?

All the ones you mentioned. ;)
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

Offline Jericoke

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2009, 12:28:04 AM »
I didn't think that Britain or Switzerland used the Euro

Offline Scott

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2009, 08:00:15 AM »
You're right...but for BMW, I'm not sure if they deal in Euro's or Swiss Francs. 
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline johnbull

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2009, 02:10:42 PM »
I didn't think that Britain or Switzerland used the Euro
Absolutely right Jerri. Blame it on brainfade. :fool: :fool: :fool:
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

Offline Jericoke

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2009, 02:20:50 PM »
The National Hockey League operates in Canada and the USA, but all players are paid in american dollars.  When the Canadian Dollar tanks, the Canadian teams can't afford the best players, and the Canadian teams tank along with the dollar.

I'd guess that a cap favours teams based in Britain, there's more teams for employees to work for, but also a larger pool of people for teams to pick from.  A team can probably make do with the second best for half the price of the best.

There is a big risk that the people who would get into F1 might move on to where they will be paid better for their talents.  Assuming there are any engineering companies willing to pay these days!

Offline Chameleon

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2009, 09:15:56 PM »
There is a big risk that the people who would get into F1 might move on to where they will be paid better for their talents.  Assuming there are any engineering companies willing to pay these days!

You know, when I was at school (way back in the mists of history) I had excellent teachers.  Seriously, they were brilliant, although I may not have appreciated them then as I do now.  I have written about this elsewhere (http://www.madtv.me.uk/goneaway.aspx?BlogID=67) so I won't go into detail here, my point only being that they were paid peanuts.  Teachers genuinely were paid a pittance in those days and so each and every one of them was a teacher because he really wanted to be one; they were prepared to suffer the low wage to be what they were designed to be.

Thinking about your point regarding F1 engineers going elsewhere because the rewards are greater, I have to say, "Let 'em."  If they care that little about the sport we love, we don't need them.  In fact, maybe this is the real reason why the day of the great F1 engineer is over (and the good teacher too) - they're there for the money, not the joy of designing a car that beats all the rest.  If the pay were lousy, you can bet that the only designers and engineers in the sport would be the truly great ones like Chapman and Gordon Murray.

Chapman started building racing cars because he was a racing fan and not because it paid big money.  His enthusiasm combined with his engineering knowledge made him the best designer for twenty years and, in all that time, he probably wasn't paid enough to keep Adrian Newey in paper clips.  I doubt he even knew how much he paid himself - it just wasn't relevant.

And, if you think Bernie paid Gordon Murray big bucks to work for Brabham, you certainly don't know Bernie.  It was the racing that mattered and brought them, then kept them there.

If the budget cap ever works, it may well bring back those times when team members raced because they wanted to, not because the money was too much to be ignored.  The cars of today are marvels of expensive technology at the so-called cutting edge; they are also all the same with a boring lack of originality and brilliant innovation (disregarding Ross Brawn's clever circumvention of the rules).  With less money but more technical freedom, we might again see real genius in the design of the cars, advances that depend less on space age technology and more on human ingenuity.

Call me an optimist if you will, but I think the possibility is there.  Sometimes even Max gets it right, albeit accidentally!
Never mind me - read http://f1insight.madtv.me.uk/ :D

Offline johnbull

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2009, 09:44:59 PM »

You know, when I was at school (way back in the mists of history) I had excellent teachers.  Seriously, they were brilliant, although I may not have appreciated them then as I do now.  I have written about this elsewhere (http://www.madtv.me.uk/goneaway.aspx?BlogID=67) so I won't go into detail here, my point only being that they were paid peanuts.  Teachers genuinely were paid a pittance in those days and so each and every one of them was a teacher because he really wanted to be one; they were prepared to suffer the low wage to be what they were designed to be.

Thinking about your point regarding F1 engineers going elsewhere because the rewards are greater, I have to say, "Let 'em."  If they care that little about the sport we love, we don't need them.  In fact, maybe this is the real reason why the day of the great F1 engineer is over (and the good teacher too) - they're there for the money, not the joy of designing a car that beats all the rest.  If the pay were lousy, you can bet that the only designers and engineers in the sport would be the truly great ones like Chapman and Gordon Murray.

Chapman started building racing cars because he was a racing fan and not because it paid big money.  His enthusiasm combined with his engineering knowledge made him the best designer for twenty years and, in all that time, he probably wasn't paid enough to keep Adrian Newey in paper clips.  I doubt he even knew how much he paid himself - it just wasn't relevant.

And, if you think Bernie paid Gordon Murray big bucks to work for Brabham, you certainly don't know Bernie.  It was the racing that mattered and brought them, then kept them there.

If the budget cap ever works, it may well bring back those times when team members raced because they wanted to, not because the money was too much to be ignored.  The cars of today are marvels of expensive technology at the so-called cutting edge; they are also all the same with a boring lack of originality and brilliant innovation (disregarding Ross Brawn's clever circumvention of the rules).  With less money but more technical freedom, we might again see real genius in the design of the cars, advances that depend less on space age technology and more on human ingenuity.

Call me an optimist if you will, but I think the possibility is there.  Sometimes even Max gets it right, albeit accidentally!

Great post Chammy ol' boy. I do love it when guys like you start talking about ...... the middle ages :D. It brings back so many wonderful memories.
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

Offline Chameleon

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2009, 03:40:44 AM »

Great post Chammy ol' boy. I do love it when guys like you start talking about ...... the middle ages :D. It brings back so many wonderful memories.

Hah!  The middle ages - very appropriate.  The important thing, John me ole mate, is that we're still in there, kicking the young uns around a bit...   ;)
Never mind me - read http://f1insight.madtv.me.uk/ :D

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2009, 01:24:36 AM »
Originally in F1 the idea was to have as few rules as possible. That left room for Chapman and Murray to innovate. The rules now are much more restrictive, generally in the name of reducing speeds or making the racing safer, that there's not as much wiggle room. Remember when Mercedes brought an envelope body to Avus, or are you all too young? Can't do that anymore.

Lonny
Lonny

Offline Chameleon

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2009, 02:18:49 AM »
Blimey, Lonny, how old are you anyway?  I've read about the Mercedes on the Avus track but I don't exactly remember it...  :D

There is a way to return to those days of no restrictions, however.  Just set the engine limit to tiny (1.5 litres would be a good start) and let 'em go for it!
Never mind me - read http://f1insight.madtv.me.uk/ :D

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2009, 11:22:47 AM »
Well I am old enough to remember it, but I wasn't aware of F1 then. I have seen one of the cars in person and I have a lovely CMC model sitting on my bookcase. ;)

Lonny
Lonny

Offline johnbull

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2009, 02:59:17 PM »
That still doesn't tell us how old you are Lonny.

Chammy's a real ol' fart. You can't be as old as him ! :yahoo:

Getting back to F1 regs, the situation is really getting ridiculous. Max changes the rules as often as he changes his underwear. I just wish they'd just set some rules and stick to them for say 10 years - like it used to be in the good old, pre Max days.
Joe M. Anastasi.
JOHN BULL RACING.   MALTA.
www.johnbullmalta.com

 


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