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Author Topic: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?  (Read 3787 times)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2009, 04:28:51 PM »
The main problem I've always had with Schumacher was his habit of going dirty when the chips were down. He won his first WDC by deliberately wrecking Damon Hill after he had disabled his own car by tagging the Armco. He was booted clear out of the championship in 97. He even muddied his last season at La Rascasse. It's really a shame, because he was good enough to have won without such nonsense.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline raindancer

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2009, 08:26:03 PM »
I agree fully Sennaman. MH was more talented , MS more manipulative.  ;)



Michael duelled with oh so many talented Drivers in cars as good as, sometimes better than his, and consistantly kept the pressure on them. Yes it's true that in the latter years he had the best all round team/car/strategy combination but that all came because people love to back a winner.



[/quote
[/quote
The point is he duelled , who were his partners, Johnny Herbert, Eddie Irvine, Rubens Barrichello. Substitute this with MIka Hakkinen, Jean Alesi  and Jean Alesi , same machinery , same car >
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

Offline Scott

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2009, 08:50:30 PM »
The main problem I've always had with Schumacher was his habit of going dirty when the chips were down. He won his first WDC by deliberately wrecking Damon Hill after he had disabled his own car by tagging the Armco. He was booted clear out of the championship in 97. He even muddied his last season at La Rascasse. It's really a shame, because he was good enough to have won without such nonsense.

Exactly.  I think he would have 8+ WDC if he hadn't mucked around.  He didn't need to win at all costs. 
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline raindancer

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2009, 10:42:04 AM »
I am not sure that I agree. IMO during the time Schuey drove, Mika Hakkinen was as good if not better. The thing about MS was the total package and pliants drivers as number 2. He never had an equal driver as his team mate like Lewis.
Infact he chose to retire rather than have Kimi as partner.
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

Offline Scott

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2009, 12:43:52 PM »
Compliant #2 didn't help win the WDC.  On both occasions (and yes, there were only two on record) when Rubens pulled over for MS, it was not a last race of the season scenario, and MS went on to win the WDC before the last race.  It wasn't even necessary for him to win, it was just that Ferrari wasn't confident enough, or wanted him to wrap up the title early and then give Rubens wins afterwards (which also happened).

And for Hakkinen, there was never as blatant a time as when Mclaren worshipped Hakkinen, which meant that DC was also a very compliant #2.

He was forced to retire or replace Massa, his close friend, which he preferred not to do.  Plus Ferrari gave him a 'consultant' contract worth more than Massa's race drive retainer.  Fear of Kimi may not have played much of a role, and as we can now see with hindsight, likely he had little to fear.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 07:29:14 PM by ScottyD »
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Willy

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2009, 04:30:56 AM »
Quote
The main problem I've always had with Schumacher was his habit of going dirty when the chips were down. He won his first WDC by deliberately wrecking Damon Hill after he had disabled his own car by tagging the Armco. He was booted clear out of the championship in 97. He even muddied his last season at La Rascasse. It's really a shame, because he was good enough to have won without such nonsense.
I can't agree more. Schumacher was dirty and did whatever it took to win, at all costs.

For pure driving talent, many drivers have had flashes of brilliance at times, on certain tracks in well set up cars with all the right conditions.

But not one of today's drivers can hold a candle to Clark or Stewart. They could pull together an amazing performance no matter the conditions or the track, cars or weather. In fact in spite of these things.
Hamilton is way to early into his career for anyone to make statments like these about him.

Offline Ian

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2009, 07:39:44 PM »
OMG, here we go again on the hate Schumacher train, don't some of you remember before Schumacher it went even more blatantly, and by the big names too. Schumacher was the best and that's all there is to it.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2009, 09:00:50 PM »
MS was never the best. :nono: He won by building a team that spent more, tested more, made deals with suppliers to get equipment optimised for his cars, etc. He dominated because of his package, but when he raced for Merc in the sports car series, he was never the fastest driver on the team. In the same car he was bested by teammates who never made a splash in F1. Remove Todt and Brawn and I think he's lucky to win 1 or 2 championships. Or just give Mika and  Kimi engines that don't blow up every lap or two.

Lonny


Lonny

Offline Ian

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2009, 10:18:45 PM »
Kimi  :nono: he's too inconsistent, does'nt give a hoot about his mechanics. Mika, yes I liked him, but sorry, Michael was the bees knees.  :yahoo:  :P
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2009, 12:12:58 PM »
5 championships for 4 different marques in 7 seasons raced, and 4 of those after he broke his neck in a shunt. Winning almost half of the F1 races he started.

.....and all of this after his 40th birthday!

I'll take Juan-Manuel Fangio!  :yahoo:
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline SennaMan

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Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2009, 12:37:41 AM »

heck, I will take Sir stirling MOSS thanks, he won everything but a WDC and even then that was because he stood up to the stewards on a mis-ruling for a mike HAWTHORN who then beat him by half or one point.
"In a Democracy, civil dissent and even disobedience is a responsibility and a duty. Indeed, the extent dissent is tolerated is in itself a test of a Democracy."

Bruce Elton Foulds - 2010.

Offline Ian

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2009, 09:59:37 AM »
That's the trouble with comparing drivers of different era's Sennaman, a team now would'nt allow a driver to do that, also can you imagine what would happen now if a driver done a Graham Hill and got out of his car, walked over to his rivals car, touched the front wheel and shook his head.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline SennaMan

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Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2009, 05:20:16 AM »
That's the trouble with comparing drivers of different era's Sennaman, a team now would'nt allow a driver to do that, also can you imagine what would happen now if a driver done a Graham Hill and got out of his car, walked over to his rivals car, touched the front wheel and shook his head.

ok Ian, but they might just breathe a sigh of relief it stopped at that and did not escalate into fisticuffs etc.

but things are starting to turn around for lewis and he just might be the favourite now to win another WDC in 2010
"In a Democracy, civil dissent and even disobedience is a responsibility and a duty. Indeed, the extent dissent is tolerated is in itself a test of a Democracy."

Bruce Elton Foulds - 2010.

Offline Ian

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2009, 10:35:27 AM »
I certainly would'nt bet against Lewis re-taking the WDC Sennaman, in fact I would'nt mind taking the odds at a bookies now. I think he will re-take it.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline Andy B

Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2009, 08:42:56 AM »
Surely the MS statistics say it all and remember even Fangio had help. LH is good you do not come into F1 in your rookie year and take a double world champion to the wire without having something special. He has also shown this year that he can fight from the back in an inferior car and still support the team. Vettel also has the potential to be around for a number of years at the top.
I believe that when a driver dominates as MS did it should be admired and enjoyed even if not a driver in you favorite team.
Next year is going to bring another change with no refuelling, no other series refuels so they have all done it before but not in F1 where they run longer and are heavier, so it will be interesting to see who adapts the best. :good:
Once you have retired every day is a Saturday!

 


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