GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => F1 Drivers => Topic started by: Robem64 on May 31, 2018, 01:29:53 PM
-
https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/238895/kubica-could-replace-hartley-at-toro-rosso (https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/238895/kubica-could-replace-hartley-at-toro-rosso)
-
I personally don't think Brendon has done that bad a job - 50% of the issues have been down to back luck and a break failure causing another car to ram into the back of you doesn't help either!!
Whether a weak rumour or not, I am not a fan of mid season driver swaps, it just looks very unprofessional (unless there are dramatic circumstances justifying the move). Poor Pascal always gets a mention, but I can't see him having a return to F1 - like Paul Di Resta, stick with DTM, Formula E or any other avenues out there.
All the best,
Cal :)
-
I agree Calman. Mid season driver changes aren't a great idea. They cause all kinds of turmoil within the team, and shouldn't happen unless there is a real crisis.
-
I agree Calman. Mid season driver changes aren't a great idea. They cause all kinds of turmoil within the team, and shouldn't happen unless there is a real crisis.
And yet many recent 'great' drivers entered the sport as mid season replacements, including Kubica. I think it made more sense when in season testing was a great way to get a driver comfortable with a car, but there's no reason to double down on a mistake. If a driver isn't working out, there's no advantage to anyone to just give up and let them race.
-
In Hartley's case there has been a certain amount of bad luck. He's proven he can race in lower series, so it is just a matter of him getting a grasp on F1. Giving him the boot after 8-9 races is unfair.
He got his hair cut for F1, what has F1 done for him? :crazy: :crazy:
-
In Hartley's case there has been a certain amount of bad luck. He's proven he can race in lower series, so it is just a matter of him getting a grasp on F1. Giving him the boot after 8-9 races is unfair.
He got his hair cut for F1, what has F1 done for him? :crazy: :crazy:
I'm not suggesting Hartley has to go, just that mid season replacement has worked out well enough in the past that we can't really call it a bad idea.
-
I'd really like to see Kubica get another shot at F1, but not at Hartley's expense. I agree that he's had very bad luck so far.
-
I'd really like to see Kubica get another shot at F1, but not at Hartley's expense. I agree that he's had very bad luck so far.
I share those feelings too ... at least give him until the summer break to see if he can deliver a couple of clean results in the points. I'd have to look back at the last 5-6 races, but I think 50% have been incidents beyond his control on race day or car failures (either during the race or issues in qualifying, with a knock on effect into the race).
All the best,
Cal :)
-
Living in New Zealand I'de like to see Hartley do well its not as if he does not have the experience and speed being a double WEC Champion and Le Man winner so I hope it comes good for him and fortune comes his way.
-
I seriously doubt Williams would let Robert go, given that there's some risk that he may be needed to race one of its own cars mid-season...
-
I seriously doubt Williams would let Robert go, given that there's some risk that he may be needed to race one of its own cars mid-season...
Is there any chance that Kubica would sign a contract that doesn't allow him to go to another F1 team should the opportunity arise?
-
Seems the signs aren't good for Hartley
https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/18473 (https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/18473)
-
Having listened to the very frustrated rants from Lance Stroll last weekend, I wonder if Kubica may be called on to drive closer to home before the season is out....however, from a driver's point of view trying to re-establish a reputation he would be much better served in the Toro Rosso than in the woeful Williams.
I agree with the other comments I don't think Hartley has done a bad job, but history tells us how intolerant the Red Bull stable can be.
-
Having listened to the very frustrated rants from Lance Stroll last weekend, I wonder if Kubica may be called on to drive closer to home before the season is out....however, from a driver's point of view trying to re-establish a reputation he would be much better served in the Toro Rosso than in the woeful Williams.
I agree with the other comments I don't think Hartley has done a bad job, but history tells us how intolerant the Red Bull stable can be.
Now that's an interesting idea. Williams is clearly struggling, and we presume it's the car, but it's possible that Stroll and Sirotkin aren't up to snuff as F1 drivers. If Kubica can step into the Williams, which he's familiar with, and put up solid Q2 times, maybe a couple of top 10s, he's proven he's superior to the other Williams drivers.
If he steps into a Toro Rosso, he can't really expect to be getting Q3 times, or podium finishes, yet that's what he'd need to do to prove he's better than Gasly. If he can't beat Gasly, in an unfamiliar car, then that would be the end of his comeback.
-
It would be enlightening if Kubica and Rowland got a shot at a Race (theoretically of course) .. to expose how good/bad Stroll and Serotkin are performing in the 2018 Car. Yes, we know the car is mainly at fault, but in Massa's day, he was capable of finding limits, which sometimes, his teammate didn't.
At least in Sergey's case, he pretty much just gets on with it, where Stroll is becoming a 'Moaning Mini' like a few people before him!!
Best Regards,
Cal :)
-
I seriously doubt Williams would let Robert go, given that there's some risk that he may be needed to race one of its own cars mid-season...
Is there any chance that Kubica would sign a contract that doesn't allow him to go to another F1 team should the opportunity arise?
Even if such a clause was in the contract (not guaranteed), it would inevitably be contingent on the boss authorising its activation at the relevant moment. The boss is not likely to authorise it if Robert's services are likely to be needed in the team with which the contract stands. If it was, say, Haas or McLaren, Robert would probably have been allowed to do it because neither team is in imminent need of a sub. But from the way Williams staff are talking, there's a good chance either Stroll or Sirotkin will be out on their ear after the summer break if things don't improve.
The CRB (Contracts Recognitions Bureau) exists to prevent contracts from simply being ignored - contracts have to be ended for a legally-valid reason before the CRB would allow a Superlicence to be attached to the new one.
-
But from the way Williams staff are talking, there's a good chance either Stroll or Sirotkin will be out on their ear after the summer break if things don't improve.
Do you really think that's likely Alia? After all both drivers have brought big funds with them to the team.
I'd suggest it's more likely one of the drivers could exit due to frustration from their backers, who would most likely seek to remove their funding and try to place their man at another team for next year.
-
But from the way Williams staff are talking, there's a good chance either Stroll or Sirotkin will be out on their ear after the summer break if things don't improve.
Do you really think that's likely Alia? After all both drivers have brought big funds with them to the team.
I'd suggest it's more likely one of the drivers could exit due to frustration from their backers, who would most likely seek to remove their funding and try to place their man at another team for next year.
I didn't think it was until I saw the post-Spain comments from various Williams staffers. Including one from its chief designer that basically said "we need to see substantial improvement when the upgrades for Germany come in."
Now, Germany is not the only upgrade Williams has coming. However, it is the most significant, and it is reaching the point where Williams will be stone-last if it doesn't improve significantly. There is no way the sponsor deals it has are set up for such a scenario. In which case, Williams is in a situation where the "big moneybags drivers" are not sufficient to allow 2019 to be funded - it may need the TV money from not being last as well.
At that point, it may have no choice than to replace a driver with Kubica. Note that Robert has about half of the funding Sirotkin has (which in turn is about 70% of Stroll's), so it's not like he's a freebie driver or anything. And if the performance of the race drivers is this low, it's also possible they may activate a performance clause, meaning Williams doesn't have to refund any monies received for the drivers' services.
-
Just to keep the pot boiling, everyone is aware this is the last year of the Martini contract?
-
To return to the original subject of a replacement for Hartley it seems there is an STR agenda to change pilots mid season.
http://www.f1i.com/news/306172-mclaren-declines-lend-norris-toro-rosso.html
-
Way to make Brendon feel unwelcome...
Clearly, Brendon is about to be out on his ear, one way or another. It's quite sad, really. He may not have pulled up any trees but he's not been that bad either. In a more settled environment, he could have made a meaningful contribution to F1. But Toro Rosso probably never will be a settled environment while it is under Franz Tost's supervision.
-
A good qualifying session from him in Canada out qualifying Gasly which he needs to do more of and I hope he has a good run tomorrow and gains some points.
-
From what I've read, Hartley has the upgraded Honda engine and Gasly doesn't.
-
Clearly, Brendon is about to be out on his ear, one way or another. It's quite sad, really.
Is this option as good as "official" now?? ... the last article I read was simply a swirling rumour. Well, whatever the case, I hope he has a good outing tomorrow for his own pride. I think to some degree, certain teams are becoming very 'cut throat' and not giving drivers enough time to bring home the better performances.
Go on Brendon, bring it home in the top 10!!!
Best Regards,
Cal :)
-
There seems to be increasingly more rumours about Stroll not being retained by Williams, I saw Jennie Gow mention it on the BBC feed on Friday. I think Kubica may well end 2018 driving the Williams. Stroll is also a lot more vocal criticising the team than Sirotkin...
-
Sadly, Hartley had some more bad luck today. :( :(
-
It would be ironic if Brendon's removal from the race is part of the reason Robert cannot leave Williams and therefore part of the reason Brendon will be available to be crashed into in future F1 races.
-
It would be ironic if Brendon's removal from the race is part of the reason Robert cannot leave Williams and therefore part of the reason Brendon will be available to be crashed into in future F1 races.
What's more ironic is STR are now saying they support Brendan. :swoon:
Wow, a driver puts his car in a stupid place marginally overlapping opponent on outside of corner he can't win on opening lap, gets clobbered and then team who previously tried to replace him come out in support. :confused:
The minute they actually praise him will probably be his last time in the car. :D
-
What's more ironic is STR are now saying they support Brendan. :swoon:
In F1 speak, that means "don't make hotel reservations for
France."
-
It's quite funny how this whole circle of "uncertain" futures for certain drivers is panning out!!! ... but let's face it, Stroll has been very vocal on team radio for many races and in Canada, he suddenly appeared Mr Nice with more encouraging quotes than negative ones (before his crash obviously). Sergey is wisely keeping his mouth closed and trying to make the best of a bad situation ... and while this is all going on with Brandon's likelihood of being dropped sooner, rather than later, Kubica has been 'caught on camera' a LOT in the last 2-3 GPs. Coincidence or something more sinister???
Best Regards,
Cal :)
-
I think the situation with Stroll is complicated much more by finances than with Hartley.
Clare Williams has gone on record about a week or 10 days ago saying they want to re-sign Lance for next year.
I think this has more to do with his dad's money, Williams could face a big drop in income next year if they don't get off the bottom steps. Martini sponsorship ends this year as well and not certain there is any replacement. Stroll's deep pockets may be their way to keep the lights on.
IMHO Williams are looking more shaky now than Sauber were a season or 2 ago.
-
I think the situation with Stroll is complicated much more by finances than with Hartley.
Clare Williams has gone on record about a week or 10 days ago saying they want to re-sign Lance for next year.
I think this has more to do with his dad's money, Williams could face a big drop in income next year if they don't get off the bottom steps. Martini sponsorship ends this year as well and not certain there is any replacement. Stroll's deep pockets may be their way to keep the lights on.
IMHO Williams are looking more shaky now than Sauber were a season or 2 ago.
Stroll isn't the strongest driver on the grid, but he's clearly one of the strongest starters, which is something to build off of, both in terms of his career, and to help Williams get exposure for sponsors. As such, keeping him around seems to make sense. Some are still cutting Max slack for being 'inexperienced', so Stroll should have that as well.
As for Williams vs Sauber, I don't know how parallel their situations are. Williams is an engineering company with interests outside of F1. They run the team like a business, so they're not spending money they don't have, but I don't know that the team is in danger of vanishing either. I believe Sauber is a racing team only, and they were being run (with all due respect to Peter) like a hobby more than a business. Now that they're owned by shareholders, the're being run like a business and not a sports team. Without non racing areas to fall back on, it would be easy to see Sauber closing up.
Both Williams and Sauber have trouble putting the right people in key positions. It's hard to get people who have the experience to take a risky position, and it's hard for people taking a risky position to get the experience!
-
The "caught on camera" stuff is what Liberty would like to happen - neither Williams driver is very marketable - but the sensible move is for Brendon to be dropped at year's end rather than mid-season (assuming Brendon doesn't have a major second-half improvement).
Franz Tost can change mood very quickly, and it's also possible the team at large might think that dropping Brendon so soon would be a bit unfair. There is always a whiff of intra-team politics at Toro Rosso.