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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: John S on February 17, 2019, 02:28:57 PM

Title: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: John S on February 17, 2019, 02:28:57 PM
Could be 1.5 secs says Ferrari's Binotto.

However it remains to be seen who's done the best job in reducing the losses from the front and rear wing changes.   

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4210/ferrari-confirm-how-much-slower-2019-f1-cars-will-be/
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Scott on February 17, 2019, 05:06:34 PM
The rev’s are up to 18k again, so those who missed the screaming engines should be party placated.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Calman on February 17, 2019, 06:16:44 PM
Yup, up to 18k from 15k last season ... that should help a little, but not the volume and pitch of a classic F1 car, say in the mid 2000's.

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: cosworth151 on February 18, 2019, 06:37:42 PM
Not up to the 21K that Cosworth was turning, and they'll still have those turbo-mufflers.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Alianora La Canta on February 19, 2019, 06:17:20 AM
Will they still sound like computers in mid-crash?
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Calman on February 28, 2019, 07:09:56 AM
Buxton and Co. were having a good discussion about this, where it already sounds like the engineering wizards are already closing that gap.  It's the ongoing condition in F1, the top brass slow it down, only to see things speed up again - within the regulations of course.

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on February 28, 2019, 09:35:19 AM
7 pf 10 teams have lapped faster than there fastest 2018 testing time and McLaren has bettered (though barely) last years best overall time.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: John S on February 28, 2019, 02:34:16 PM
Yeah but to put it in context Lonny the weather was diabolical for testing in Barcelona last year, snow in 1st week I seem to recall.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: guest3164 on February 28, 2019, 03:05:15 PM
Renault's Nick Chester said last that it seems F1 cars will be faster this year, despite the talk they would actually be 1.5s down on last year's lap times.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141701/f1-cars-now-set-to-go-faster-than-in-2018 (https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141701/f1-cars-now-set-to-go-faster-than-in-2018)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Jericoke on February 28, 2019, 03:07:29 PM
Buxton and Co. were having a good discussion about this, where it already sounds like the engineering wizards are already closing that gap.  It's the ongoing condition in F1, the top brass slow it down, only to see things speed up again - within the regulations of course.

Best Regards,
Cal :)

They know that without any interference, the cars will be faster season over season, so they have to change the rules to knock off a few seconds, knowing that it will be regained and the sport will continue at more or less the same speed it always has.

I'm not entirely sure why they don't want the cars going too fast.  Is it a safety issue for the drivers?  A safety issue for people near the track?  Has someone scientifically determined that 'too fast' isn't interesting to viewers?  Is raw speed a barrier to bringing in new drivers? (The super licence seems to be doing that).

Quite honestly, if the cars COULD go faster it would add much more driver skill to the equation.  While being fast is important in racing, knowing when and where to slow down is how most passes are made.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Calman on February 28, 2019, 05:20:59 PM
I wouldn't think it comes down to anything the drivers can or cannot handle, not even so much a concern regarding crowds.  I would think it's more to do with impact and how the car "comes apart" so to speak.  In primitive terms, we always see commercials on reducing speeds in our roads cars, as they aggressively share the damage to a car at 40mph, compared with 30mph etc.  So, my guess would be that there is a certain speed (over 200mph) where even an F1 car can't guarantee the ultimate safety for a driver, given an impact of sorts, over a certain speed threshold.

Just my thoughts ... I could be waaaaay off!!

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on February 28, 2019, 07:16:26 PM
Don't know about F1, but I suspect it is similar to Drag Racing and NASCAR; insurance. When they hit 209 at Daytona and when top end speeds in Top Fuel started creeping toward 350 the Insurance people threatened to refuse coverage. You can't race without insurance. It worked in NASCAR, they have consistently kept speeds below 200, but Drag Racers are hitting 330 pretty regularly.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Jericoke on February 28, 2019, 07:38:13 PM
Don't know about F1, but I suspect it is similar to Drag Racing and NASCAR; insurance. When they hit 209 at Daytona and when top end speeds in Top Fuel started creeping toward 350 the Insurance people threatened to refuse coverage. You can't race without insurance. It worked in NASCAR, they have consistently kept speeds below 200, but Drag Racers are hitting 330 pretty regularly.

I can't imagine it being a real thing, but what if F1 cars were speed limited, but otherwise unrestricted development? 

(I know, the PR of a racing series with a 'speed limit' would be a disaster, but as a fan of the technical aspects of the sport, it would be fascinating watching them focusing on aspects of the car beyond absolute speed)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Dare on February 28, 2019, 10:04:10 PM
Same thing happened at Indy. The cars were doing
240 mph laps,almost beyond the drivers limits. Seems they
cancelled the race at Texas because the cars were too fast
causing the drivers to black out
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 01, 2019, 12:00:50 AM
NASCAR super speedways are really not a proper venue for Indy Cars. Just too fast. The centrifugal force causes those blackouts. Milwaukee's flat mile is much more interesting to me.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Jericoke on March 01, 2019, 03:14:41 PM
NASCAR super speedways are really not a proper venue for Indy Cars. Just too fast. The centrifugal force causes those blackouts. Milwaukee's flat mile is much more interesting to me.

Milwaukee Mile is my favourite race, any series, any track type.  It's just insane!  I loved the CART racing there, a nice antidote to the sprawling Indy 500.

NASCAR racing there is surreal, it looks like bumper to bumper rush hour traffic going in a circle at 200 mph.  There is no room for error, and a tremendous amount of trust with your fellow drivers is a must.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: guest3164 on March 01, 2019, 06:30:20 PM
Milwaukee Mile is my favourite race, any series, any track type.  It's just insane!  I loved the CART racing there, a nice antidote to the sprawling Indy 500.

NASCAR racing there is surreal, it looks like bumper to bumper rush hour traffic going in a circle at 200 mph.  There is no room for error, and a tremendous amount of trust with your fellow drivers is a must.

Trust in your fellow drivers? 

I know someone who would fit right in  ;)

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/480/cpsprodpb/148FB/production/_105491248_max_verstappen_reuters.jpg)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Calman on March 01, 2019, 06:35:07 PM
Max would be complaining on the radio ... "Why did you put me back out into traffic? ... it's bumper to bumper out here .. and can you ask the other teams to speed up!!! ... somebody HIT ME, I mean, C'mon!!!!!!!!".

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: guest3164 on March 01, 2019, 06:38:01 PM
Calman, you have it all wrong! 

Max would not make it past the first corner without an enormous collision! 
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Calman on March 01, 2019, 06:45:34 PM
True.  I can envision him trying to explain away a 50 car pile up to Dr Marko!  :o

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: guest3164 on March 01, 2019, 07:44:07 PM
Dr Marko would probably blame Kvyat.  Even if Kvyat was 5000 miles away.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Calman on March 01, 2019, 07:49:47 PM
.. that's a bit far fetched, although I could realistically accept 4,998 miles away!!  :D

It will be interesting with Gasly in 2019.   Maybe he will become the new golden boy at RBR and Max will receive the treatment his teammates were familiar with!?!? ... but I doubt it.

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 01, 2019, 10:13:17 PM
Gasly's already in the doghouse after wrecking tha test car. Cost them valuable time.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Alianora La Canta on March 07, 2019, 06:24:41 AM
I'm not convinced Max would fit in. He doesn't trust drivers who follow the rules, to the extent that he's willing to punch them, and his driving is so untrustworthy that he'd soon be getting swiped by the regulars. (He wouldn't mind the punches so much if he ever understood why he was getting hit).
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Calman on March 07, 2019, 06:49:34 AM
He doesn't trust drivers who follow the rules, to the extent that he's willing to punch them...

I think F1 needs to recruit a future driver from the toughest parts of Glasgow, London, Texas or Cape Town ... (to name a few) ... then see if Max wants to use his hands (it could be his last).

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: John S on March 07, 2019, 08:36:49 AM
Max's confrontational attitude looks like a inherited trait from his father. Jos is a well documented brawler, might be hard for Max to make the change now, even if he wants too.  :(
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Scott on March 08, 2019, 02:51:57 PM
I think there are any number of drivers on the grid who are easily capable of putting Max on his butt, but I think there may only be one or two who would actually take the swing. 
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Jericoke on March 08, 2019, 05:21:56 PM
I think there are any number of drivers on the grid who are easily capable of putting Max on his butt, but I think there may only be one or two who would actually take the swing.

As a hockey fan, it's always painful watching athletes from non contact sports 'fight'.  Baseball and Basketball are pretty bad.  NASCAR was great, the sport was (and I say this with love) founded by thugs.  They really knew how to handle themselves.

I agree that some F1 drivers might have that ability, but it's more likely to see some tai chi break out.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Calman on March 08, 2019, 08:36:35 PM
Speaking of Hockey, I now get the quote "I went to watch a fight and a Hockey match broke out!"  ... I don't follow Hockey, even after living 16 years in Western Canada, but at least I get the "jab" nowadays, well, have done for a good few years.

I guess the parallel is, back in Scotland, a mate would always be sitting in the pub or armchair at home watching Fitbae!! ... here, it's typically a neighbour in the garage, tinkering with his Quad, Hunting Gear or Chainsaw, watching Hockey on a wall mounted portable TV.

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Jericoke on March 10, 2019, 05:41:39 PM
Speaking of Hockey, I now get the quote "I went to watch a fight and a Hockey match broke out!"  ... I don't follow Hockey, even after living 16 years in Western Canada, but at least I get the "jab" nowadays, well, have done for a good few years.

I guess the parallel is, back in Scotland, a mate would always be sitting in the pub or armchair at home watching Fitbae!! ... here, it's typically a neighbour in the garage, tinkering with his Quad, Hunting Gear or Chainsaw, watching Hockey on a wall mounted portable TV.

Best Regards,
Cal :)

Hockey has always been a 'tough' sport.  The speed of playing on ice skates always injects a lot of energy and emotions can get ratcheted up very quickly.

In the 1970s the NHL went from 6 teams to 18 teams, plus a competing professional league with another 12 or so teams.  There weren't enough high calibre players to flesh out 30 teams, so there were players who would focus on a single skill and hope that was enough.  Many players chose physical intimidation as their single skill, and the Philadelphia Flyers built their entire team around the philosophy that if you could 'beat them in the alley you could beat them on the ice'.  They would get the biggest, strongest meanest players, and the opposing team would spend the game worried about being hurt (imagine racing between Max and Grosjean for 70 laps) and couldn't focus on playing hockey.  The flyers won 2 championships with that strategy, and other teams adapted their strategy to match:  all the teams tried to be the biggest, strongest, baddest team on skates.

Then Wayne Gretzky, a comparitive pipsqueak, comes along and shatters all the scoring records and the game has generally trended away from fighting ever since.  In the 1970s a single normal game might have 5 fights.  Now a championship team might have 5 total fights over an 82 game season.

As a hockey fan, I like that fights are rare, they feel more special now, like they mean something as part of the game.

They're still better than watching Max flail around.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Calman on March 10, 2019, 07:48:13 PM
The thing I don't get, is why referee's just stand back and let them punch the heck out of each other, before stepping in.  With any other contact sport, they would be red carded, sent off or heavily disciplined for those type of antics.  I'm sure there are reasons, but it still baffles me, when I see clips on local news - a bar brawl on ice!!  :D

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Jericoke on March 11, 2019, 11:06:16 AM
The thing I don't get, is why referee's just stand back and let them punch the heck out of each other, before stepping in.  With any other contact sport, they would be red carded, sent off or heavily disciplined for those type of antics.  I'm sure there are reasons, but it still baffles me, when I see clips on local news - a bar brawl on ice!!  :D

Best Regards,
Cal :)

There's two reasons the linesmen let the players fight.

1)  It's part of the show.  Fans enjoy it, so they let it go.

2)  The players aren't trained fighters, they don't have the stamina to go for 10 rounds.  The fights last about 30 seconds by which time both combatants are exhausted and very easy to over power as the adrenaline fades.

You're right, minor hockey still has way more fighting than top professional leagues.  Players at a lower skill feel that they can make their mark by terrifying opponents through physical force.  As long as officials let players get away with this reckless behaviour, it will continue.  (Hmmm, sound like any Dutch F1 racers we know?)
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: John S on March 11, 2019, 11:40:06 AM
There's also the point that the Ice Hockey combatants are wearing padding or protective outfits so a minute or 2 bashing each other seldom results in bad injury. Very different to letting Rugger, Football(soccer),  Baseball, Basketball or field Hockey players go at it.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Jericoke on March 14, 2019, 06:36:24 PM
There's also the point that the Ice Hockey combatants are wearing padding or protective outfits so a minute or 2 bashing each other seldom results in bad injury. Very different to letting Rugger, Football(soccer),  Baseball, Basketball or field Hockey players go at it.

It is customary to remove your helmet and gloves before the fight begins. In fact "drop your gloves" means "fight" in Canadian.

Someone who attempts to fight with his helmet on is forever branded a coward. Claude Lemieux (no relation to Mario) and Sean Avery are two of the greatest villains in Canadian history for doing that.
Title: Re: F1 cars will be lapping slower this season
Post by: Alianora La Canta on March 18, 2019, 09:39:50 AM
Max's confrontational attitude looks like a inherited trait from his father. Jos is a well documented brawler, might be hard for Max to make the change now, even if he wants too.  :(

Especially since Red Bull encourages the attitude (if not so openly the actions) of a brawler, and the FIA doesn't exactly discourage it, for all its pretty words.

I suspect Esteban could have given Max something to give about if he thought there would have been any point... ...and Kevin, Kimi or possibly Seb would have had him out cold had they believed the effort worthwhile. (Lewis, it depends what mood he was in that day). However, for all Max's attitude, I don't think he punches that hard, so probably all of them would simply have let the FIA deal with such pathetic punchers. (Had this been Kevin v Kimi, in either direction, retaliation might have happened, and I get the vibe that specific fight wouldn't look pathethic).
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