GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Andy B on May 30, 2010, 03:43:21 PM
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A racing accident?
In my view Vettell caused the accident and took himself out but it seems from the TV, well Eddy Jordan, things Webber was also to blame but then ther Maccers showed how it should be done.
Cast your vote and maybe Christian Horner will look in!! ;)
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No question. Webber gave him a car width during the pass. If he moved over any more he would have been questioned about 'gifting' Vettel the pass.
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I could only see it as being Vettel's fault, he moved over too early and clipped Webber who had left enough room for Seb to pass him. Pity.
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No question. Webber gave him a car width during the pass. If he moved over any more he would have been questioned about 'gifting' Vettel the pass.
exactly, and eddie JORDAN is a tosser trying to remain on good terms with SV!
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Looked like Vettel's fault to me and by Horner's
comments I know who his favorite is
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ARGH!!! I accidently voted for Webber! Make that Vettel!!!!!!!
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I could only see it as being Vettel's fault, he moved over too early and clipped Webber who had left enough room for Seb to pass him. Pity.
Is it possible Webber was actually letting Vettle past but it got scrwed up and now they need someone to blame to avoid an investigation
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Totally Vettels fault if he was racing anyone else i would understand but you dont take risks like that with your team mate
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ARGH!!! I accidently voted for Webber! Make that Vettel!!!!!!!
Ha ha :-[ So did I and I set it up!! :-[ :-[ :fool:
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Vettel without question.
He has went down in my estimation after that move, and his reaction afterwards. :crazy:
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So it's actually 10-0
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So it's actually 10-0
Yup! ;)
Hey Wizzo, you reading this? Think you can "fix" this poll and move the 2 "no's" to "yes"?
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It does seem awfully like the Red Bull team is turning against Webber, Helmut Marko blamed Webber for not moving over as Vettel was 2 meters ahead :crazy: Yeah, Webber should give over. Great to see a driver is now not allowed to defend his position from his team mate. Full story below, from autosport:
Red Bull's motorsport advisor Helmut Marko insists that both its Formula 1 team's drivers are treated exactly the same - even though he has publicly blamed Mark Webber for trying to defend his position during his Turkish Grand Prix crash.
Webber and team-mate Sebastian Vettel collided in their fight for the lead at Istanbul – throwing away the team's chances of taking the win, and handing victory to main title rivals McLaren.
But although it has emerged that race leader Webber's position was compromised by having to turn his engine down to save fuel, while Vettel was allowed to attack him at full power, Marko is adamant both men are given a fair and equal chance.
"We are handling our team and both drivers in the same way," insisted Marko. "Vettel was under such pressure and if such a situation comes up – you have to look after the team. We still could have been 1-2."
Marko says Vettel was allowed to attack Webber because there was no option to back him off – as Lewis Hamilton was right behind the Red Bull Racing drivers.
"It wasn't a situation where we were racing each other," said Marko. "We were under enormous pressure from the McLarens – they were much faster on the straights so we had to gain our advantage in the corners.
"He had to attack otherwise he would have got overtaken by Hamilton – it would have been completely different if the McLarens were 10-seconds behind, but that wasn't the case."
Asked for his views on the accident, Marko reckons that Vettel was in the right to turn across the track, even with Webber there, since the German had got his nose ahead.
"He [Vettel] was already ahead, at least two metres ahead, and there was a corner to the left side coming, so he had to go for the line," he said. "He cannot brake on the dirt because for sure he knows what happens.
"But it was unnecessary the whole situation. We will talk with everybody quite clearly to make it not happen again."
Marko said that he had spoken to Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz and he explained the Austrian was 'not amused' by the events of Turkey.
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I thought the definition of "defend" in F1 racing was actually moving your car somewhat. It's been a few hours since I saw the replay but did Webber move at all before being hit? I mean, other than in a straight line? LOLOL :DntKnw:
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Sounds to me like Marko forgot how to race since he quit driving. If someone is trying to pass you on the inside, you WANT to keep them on the dirty line, so hopefully they blow their braking point and you can go on by and keep your position. If he is actually saying that once one of their drivers puts a toe in front of the other one, that the other one should pull over, then I'd kinda call that team orders. I'm sorry for Mark, but I imagine he will instruct Flavio to start up talks with other teams now. A week or two back I said he would be crazy to leave RBR. I take that back now - if the support is so obviously on Vettel, then Mark should make sure he's in front of Vettel at every opportunity, and start to ignore the team when they tell you to turn your engine down while you are ahead of Vettel.
Vettel's story is weak. Once he was ahead he concentrated on the corner braking points?? Hey Seb, you should pay attention to where your car is until you know your rear diffuser has passed the other driver's front wing.
The Mclaren's showed how teammates can battle without blowing the team's position or wrecking their cars. Webber did nothing wrong, not at all out of place. Vettel has to earn his passes, even (or especially) against his teammate.
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I was thinking the same Scott about Webber's future, I cannot believe he would enjoy the situation if the team is so far behind Vettel as today's events suggest. Maybe though he'll brush it aside for the good of his career, but it must have been a real kick in the teeth given his recent form up to and including today's race. Vettel only caught him as the team made him turn his engine down.
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"He [Vettel] was already ahead, at least two metres ahead, and there was a corner to the left side coming, so he had to go for the line," he said. "He cannot brake on the dirt because for sure he knows what happens.
Marko seems to have forgotten that great drivers prepare for their overtakes by cleaning the areas of the track they might be expecting to have to use whilst making a move. It's one thing to get the nose of your car in front but quite another to get an overtake done sucessfully.
If overtaking is as simple as Vettel seems to think it should be we would not all be moaning about lack of overtakes. I think Seb must have been watching too much MotoGP where you can stuff the bike up the inside and use the other rider to assist you into the bend.
I'm not so sure though that the McLarens showed perfect manners, as far as I remember Lewis was pretty agressive on the retake and had Jens kept his foot in we may well be discussing them thowing away top places.
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I think it is terrible for the team to drop Webber so quickly, especially when both drivers are still fighting for a championship. Webber will now understand where the teams loyalties lie, and that will either motivate him to win despite the bias or shatter his confidence, I believe it will be the former.
I am disappointed with Christian Horner but obviously he is worred about Vettel moving elsewhere and has decided that if he backs him he has more chance of retaining him in the future
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I thought Vettel had another year on his contract...it is Webber's contract that is up at the end of the year.
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I thought Vettel had another year on his contract...it is Webber's contract that is up at the end of the year.
I would think that Christian is looking long term, and hoping that Vettel will remember the time the team backed him. Vettel is the future for Red Bull even if he has another year on his contract.
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Webber will now understand where the teams loyalties lie, and that will either motivate him to win despite the bias or shatter his confidence, I believe it will be the former.
I am disappointed with Christian Horner but obviously he is worred about Vettel moving elsewhere and has decided that if he backs him he has more chance of retaining him in the future
I think Mark will be happy having the points and the blame rather than the alternative, he is a tough character and will stay determined to try for the WDC, after all he knows it could be his one chance at it.
From Christian's point of view Vettel is the future and most of the other top teams will put in a bid if Seb is available, heck they may even buy off his contract with RBR if it comes to it. It's a team principal's job to keep the best talent if at all possible so allowing mark to carry the blame, whilst sitting on a points advantage, may get everyone over this in the quickest way.
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What Scott said!! :good:
If the McLarens had not had that fight through five corners then Vettell may have had an argument but as they did and showed how it should be done he is fighting a lost cause.
I feel another poll coming on!!!!! >:D
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Back in the deep dark past, I went to the SCCA marshalling school where we were taught the driver attempting the pass is the controlling driver and it is his job to get by cleanly. By that logic, Vettel is to blame. Further, Mark has a reputation for not giving an inch and Vettel should be aware of that. Let's see, Dietrich is Austrian, Marko is German, Vettel is German, do I detect a bit of Chauvinism here?
Lonny
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Vettel is RB's baby, they've brought him through the ranks and know damn well that he is the future, still it shows a sever lack of balls by the Horner, he should have told Vettel he screwed up.
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Vettel is RB's baby, they've brought him through the ranks and know damn well that he is the future, still it shows a sever lack of balls by the Horner, he should have told Vettel he screwed up.
At the end of the day Vettel knows he screwed up because Mark is sitting on a points advantage following this, you can't become a top F1 driver by not knowing exactly your part in what happened even if you can't or wont admit it publicly.
Horner as the team manager has to ensure both these guys continue to race for the team and not as enemies, he may have decided Mark's got the points so he can cope with the blame to stop unrest. On the BBC before the race they were discussing the pressure on Christian, especially because he has never been in the situation of having two drivers fighting for the WDC. No real conclusions were drawn although they all agreed infighting could ruin the team's chances of the constructors title and might let some one else steal the WDC, does Lewis & Ferd in 07 ring any bells.
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As much as I like like Vettel, the kid screwed up. Taking out a team mate isn't good for one's future in F1.
Just ask JPM.
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ARGH!!! I accidently voted for Webber! Make that Vettel!!!!!!!
Ha ha :-[ So did I and I set it up!! :-[ :-[ :fool:
I thought Vettel had signed up an voted :-*
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I thought Vettel had another year on his contract...it is Webber's contract that is up at the end of the year.
I would think that Christian is looking long term, and hoping that Vettel will remember the time the team backed him. Vettel is the future for Red Bull even if he has another year on his contract.
The current strategy in F1 is to have two strong drivers to maximise the changes of a WDC, as well as help ensure the WCC.
If RBR is willilng to hang Mark out like this, good luck finding a strong driver to be Vettel's caddy.
Or else RBR has already decided that it's best to only have one rooster in the hen house.
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Totally Vettels fault but I was really surprised at Mark. No matter who is on your inside going into a tight left, the best thing to do is move out wide and hope for a cut-back pass coming out of the corner. Again, totally Vettels fault but I think smart driving from Mark could have avoided the accident.
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Mark explained that by saying they were not at the conner yet so Vettels move took him by surprise because it was too early.
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Totally Vettels fault but I was really surprised at Mark. No matter who is on your inside going into a tight left, the best thing to do is move out wide and hope for a cut-back pass coming out of the corner. Again, totally Vettels fault but I think smart driving from Mark could have avoided the accident.
I would personally keep the other guy on the dirty side (as in not move over - yet) so he is more likely to blow his braking point. Mark could that way have still veered right at the last moment to take the cut-back pass anyhow...don't forget they were still far away from the braking points.
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Back in the deep dark past, I went to the SCCA marshalling school where we were taught the driver attempting the pass is the controlling driver and it is his job to get by cleanly. By that logic, Vettel is to blame. Further, Mark has a reputation for not giving an inch and Vettel should be aware of that. Let's see, Dietrich is Austrian, Marko is German, Vettel is German, do I detect a bit of Chauvinism here?
Lonny
exactly Lonny, and we all know what happens to a driver if he has a reputation for backing off when challenged. Vettel placed his car in a position that challenged Mark to back off or face a collision. Mark showed the upstart he was not backing off and the spoilt prat fell for it.
you only had to watch the kid's body language and disgusting demeanor after quali on Saturday to know he might try something desperate on Sunday to cement his failing and rapidly falling reputation.
he has now replaced fernando ALONSO as my 'driver who is very easy to dislike' and he will remain as such until he grows up and shows some class and character
and as for Mr HORNER my comments are unprintable.
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Just a quick reminder to anyone new to this post that those two two "no" votes are actually "yes" votes from two of us that were too quick on the draw! :-[
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If you don't get this, I'm sure you'll know a teenage girl who does...