GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => Pit Pass => Topic started by: Dare on July 24, 2008, 02:49:31 AM
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simple explanation of the KERS to be
used next year
http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2008-07/kinetic-energy-formula-one
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I guess BMW Sauber are using the electrical version.
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So are Red Bull. It was the batteries over-heating that resulted in their factory being evacuated.
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Ferrari and Honda have reported no problems so far, by the way.
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Ferrari is "struggling" with KERS, according to the formula one team's engine chief Gilles Simon. He said the energy recovery technology, due to debut next year, “is a complex subject, which finds us dealing with a lot of new and complicated areas. It will be really challenging to run this system next year. We are learning every day, but we are struggling,” Simon admitted.
Following some other teams' more high profile problems, however, Simon insists that Ferrari is not alone with its concerns about KERS, saying he believes “all teams will struggle to run the new system reliably right from the opening race of the 2009 season”. Ferrari vice president Piero Ferrari was critical of KERS earlier this year, saying it was an area, involving high-capacity batteries and other unfamiliar technology, "unknown to traditional engine men".
http://www.manipef1.com/news/2008/index.php?id=2053&redirect=1
If Ferrari are struggling,What chance for the others?
TheStig
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I wonder how much of McLaren's original KERS system is still relevant. I guess with new batteries, materials and electronics it will be obsolete now
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Hi Im new and just looked in on this discussion. What I dont understand is how do they intend to get the powerfrom the batteries into the drive train to make the car go faster then the interna engine which is driving it.
Its the sheer mechanics of the output I want to know about. I understand where they get the volts from, but how do they output it.
Does anybody know?
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Hiya Roger, welcome along. Hope you enjoy it here.
Neil.P
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Howdy, Roger. Glad to have you here!
A d.c. electric motor and generator are essentially the same thing. The main difference is in the wiring. Under braking, the unit would convert the kinetic energy of the car into electricity, which would be stored in the batteries. Normally, the brakes would convert this energy to heat. When the KERS unit was triggered, it would go into Motor mode and feed power to the transaxle.
A similar system has been used in trams & electric railways for decades, with the generated electric fed back into the power line. It's called Regenerative Braking.
Hope this helps.
Cos
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Thanks for info, but how does it feed power to the transaxle, is it a direct coupling, or clutched.
Does it over rev the engine, which must be rev limited to 18k this year.
the load must suddenly come of the crank and then back on 6 seconds later. Masive transmission shocks.
See what I mean? it always raises more questions than answers.
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I think most of the systems are using magnetic clutches, but I'm not sure. The system would most likely be used during acceleration, when the engines are below top rpm's. As for the shock to the gearboxes, that should be interesting!
Here's a link that has a good diagram of the mechanical connection:
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/6274/f1-kers-off-to-a-shakey-start/ (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/6274/f1-kers-off-to-a-shakey-start/)
There is also a KERS unit that stores the energy mechanically in a flywheel. Williams is using such a system.
I worked on a project to develop a similar system back in grad school. (late '70s/early '80s) It was tested on commuter trains, but never went past the test phase.
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/people/254890/williams-f1-hybrid-kers.html (http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/people/254890/williams-f1-hybrid-kers.html)
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Ferrari is "struggling" with KERS, according to the formula one team's engine chief Gilles Simon. He said the energy recovery technology, due to debut next year, “is a complex subject, which finds us dealing with a lot of new and complicated areas. It will be really challenging to run this system next year. We are learning every day, but we are struggling,” Simon admitted.
If Ferrari are struggling,What chance for the others?
TheStig
Hiya Roger good to have you with us.
Ferrari are more upbeat about KERS since the turn of the year, see this report from Autosport that I posted earlier in the month.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72941 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72941)
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Welcome to GPWizard, roger44. Hope you enjoy yourself here :)
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Hi Roger. Always good to have another member on board.
The interesting thing about Ferrari's comments about how far behind they are on KERS is that they are using a Magnetti Marelli system which Renault and both Red Bull teams are using and none of them are complaining about timescale.
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Ferrari probably has the advanced Magnetti
Marelli KERS while the others have customer
car KERS
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Thanks for the info guys, and the warm welcome, but I still dont understand how they are going to feed a sudden power surge into the drive train and not expect to releive the engine of load temporaily and then 6 seconds later reaplly the engine load. That will be interesting to see how the gearbox copes.
ALso the flywheel system reving at 64k, what are gyro forces at that speed and how wil they affect handling turning into corners. I remember when I was learning engineering being toaugh abour progression, the force we feel when we hold a bycycle wheel by the axle and its spinning, it tries to pull itself out of your hand, and thats only reving at 5 rpm, my god what is 64k going to do.
I cant wait, I hope they use in Oz
roger
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I wonder if the gyro effect might in fact help stabilize the car? But seriously, anything spinning at 64k is pretty frightening. I don't think any number of layers of carbon fibre could protect the driver or any others around him if that thing explodes.