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F1 News & Discussions => F1 Teams => Topic started by: cosworth151 on November 18, 2012, 06:02:52 PM

Title: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: cosworth151 on November 18, 2012, 06:02:52 PM
Ferrari has pulled another fast one. They've cracked a seal on Massa's gearbox, giving him a 5 place grid penalty. This was done to move Alonso from over to the clean side of the track for the start. Massa didn't look happy.
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: cosworth151 on November 18, 2012, 06:13:18 PM
Red Bull has now issued a statement that they will not respond to Ferrari's actions. RBR could have followed suit and sabotaged Webber's car to move Alonso back to the dirty side of the track.
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: John S on November 18, 2012, 09:19:23 PM
What a lot of fuss about nothing, there's no ban on team orders so no problem.
Red Bull would have been stupid to move Webber from his 3rd on the grid to put Nando another place forward but on to the dirty side, and in front of Webber incidentally.  ::)

In the mists of time teams called drivers in to give their cars to others to gain championship points, and how many times have no 2 drivers had to swap chassis, or even a whole car before the start of race, in the T car era.

Where tracks have a clear disadvantage for the even numbered grid slots they should move the positions level with the uneven side to make it fair for all. Can't be right that starting 3rd on the grid is better than being 2nd, ad infinitum.  :nono:

Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: David on November 18, 2012, 11:57:20 PM
What's the fuss, sensible move IMO.  :DntKnw:
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: Jericoke on November 19, 2012, 01:35:28 AM
I have to admit, I'm enjoying Ferrari trying new tricks.

Earlier they tried using Massa to 'tow' Alonso for qualifying.  It didn't work, but kudos for trying something new. 

We can't leave ALL the innovations for the drafting tables, can we?
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: Scott on November 19, 2012, 05:04:19 PM
As it turned out, the dirty side wasn't so bad.
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: John S on November 19, 2012, 06:01:45 PM
As it turned out, the dirty side wasn't so bad.

Really I tought all the left side starters lost places at the start, whilst Alonso gained three. Now I call that the right call.
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: Irisado on November 19, 2012, 10:03:44 PM
In my view, it wasn't terribly sporting, but Ferrari did a lot worse during the Schumacher era, and number two drivers have historically had to give way to their number one team mates in all sorts of ways.  As a result, while I don't particularly like it, I fully understand why Ferrari felt the need to do it, especially in view of the state of the track surface.
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: Ian on November 19, 2012, 10:23:51 PM
Ahem, not only the Schumacher era. "Fernando is faster than you."
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: David on November 19, 2012, 10:34:18 PM
As it turned out, the dirty side wasn't so bad.

Really I tought all the left side starters lost places at the start, whilst Alonso gained three. Now I call that the right call.

My observation also.  :good:
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: F1fanaticBD on November 20, 2012, 03:36:32 AM
Though people may think that the winner started from the dirty side from the dirty side of the track, but Mark Webber getting a great start, as well as Alonso proves that it was right move from the Ferrari..

And it also shows, that Hamilton hunted down 2 Red Bulls in this 56 laps race and scored one of the astonishing victory.
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: Irisado on November 20, 2012, 10:25:12 AM
Ahem, not only the Schumacher era. "Fernando is faster than you."

I agree, however, there was a lot more of that in the Schumacher era, and there were even more curious charades, such as the infamous spongy brakes incident on Irvine's car at the A1 Ring in 1998, which was even called on the commentary by Martin Brundle before the end of the race.

There was also Ferrari's preferential treatment deal with the FIA during the Schumacher era, tyres designed specifically for the car, and various other dodgy incidents, including winning the 1998 race at Silverstone in the pit lane.
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: F1fanaticBD on November 21, 2012, 07:03:45 AM
Fangio jumped into his team-mate's car, and finished the race. It was legal, so was Ferrari's move. And it indeed helped Fernando Alonso to limit damage as less as possible. They do not have an out and out fastest car, but somehow they are in a position to challenge till the end.

But I am sure FIA will have something to say in the next year's regulation regarding this.
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: John S on November 21, 2012, 10:27:40 PM
Fangio jumped into his team-mate's car, and finished the race. It was legal, so was Ferrari's move. And it indeed helped Fernando Alonso to limit damage as less as possible. They do not have an out and out fastest car, but somehow they are in a position to challenge till the end.

But I am sure FIA will have something to say in the next year's regulation regarding this.

Before the FIA starts tinkering with the regs to stop team tactics they should first look seriously at why the team felt compelled to take the action. I say again that it can't be right that the 2nd spot on the grid can be worse to start from than 3rd, but that's just what we had in Austin.

Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: F1fanaticBD on November 22, 2012, 03:59:34 AM
Fangio jumped into his team-mate's car, and finished the race. It was legal, so was Ferrari's move. And it indeed helped Fernando Alonso to limit damage as less as possible. They do not have an out and out fastest car, but somehow they are in a position to challenge till the end.

But I am sure FIA will have something to say in the next year's regulation regarding this.

Before the FIA starts tinkering with the regs to stop team tactics they should first look seriously at why the team felt compelled to take the action. I say again that it can't be right that the 2nd spot on the grid can be worse to start from than 3rd, but that's just what we had in Austin.



Could not agree more Jonh, but I wonder what FIA could have done to prevent it. I agree to the fact, it is absolutely unjust to have 2nd place driver have worse way of starting than 3rd place driver. And being a new circuit where the race was held for the first time, you will always have such problems.

I could think of '90 Suzuka where Ayrton had the famous crash with Alain, when he was put in the dirty side of the track, by a last minute change of the pole position.

I think in Hungary we have such difficulty of dirty side of the track, because that is a track which is very rarely used, hence have such problems. It is nothing new in this sports, and wonder FIA will do anyhing about it at all...
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: Scott on November 22, 2012, 07:27:24 AM
Maybe they just fixed something in Massa's gearbox?  ;)
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: vintly on November 22, 2012, 09:13:13 AM
Before the FIA starts tinkering with the regs to stop team tactics they should first look seriously at why the team felt compelled to take the action. I say again that it can't be right that the 2nd spot on the grid can be worse to start from than 3rd, but that's just what we had in Austin.

Don't forget this year's grip issue exacerbated by a number of factors: not only a new track with no rubber laid down; but also dusty due to recent construction, oily due to it being recently laid, over-conservative tyre choice making for less grip at the start and also lower ambient temperatures than were expected. It's just a number of symptoms coming together at a new track – that's racing. Weather aside I think next year will prove less problematic.

The main issue for me isn't the variables listed above, its the fact that someone can gain a grid position in this manner. I think Ferrari would have done this even if there were no track grip issues - simply to bump him up a place. That needs addressing.
Title: Re: Ferrari Fixes Race Start
Post by: F1fanaticBD on November 22, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
But as being the special team, I am sure FIA will not be coming with the hammer down  ;)
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