GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Willy on July 15, 2013, 02:31:00 AM
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Is it just me or does it appear that the time between races this season seems to be longer then usual.
There seems to be more then the normal 2 week breaks between races happening way to often.
:nono: :nono:
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Yeah, it's kind of hard to get into the rhythm of the season.
Wish someone would use the time to run illegal tests, just to give us something to talk about >:D
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Tell me about it people,when I had an exam, I have to skip almost one British GP & Half of German GP in just a space of one week, and now I have tons of time to spare, and all I have is young driver's test :fool: :fool:
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The summer break was designed to give team personnel, particularly those back at the factory, a rest. I think that it's a good idea myself.
In view of how crowded the calendar is, I feel that the spacing is just about right.
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There was supposed to be a race this coming weekend, but it failed to get scheduled pre-season:
http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/08/f1-confirm-19-race-season-after-european-host-could-not-be-found-3533440/
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The summer break was designed to give team personnel, particularly those back at the factory, a rest. I think that it's a good idea myself.
In view of how crowded the calendar is, I feel that the spacing is just about right.
Crowded? NASCAR races 67 weekends a year.
Indycar has started doing TWO full point races in a single weekend.
Baseball teams play every day. Hockey and basketball teams play three times a week. Canadian and American football teams even play once a week.
The possibility of being forgotten in a world of 24 hour sports news is something that Bernie must consider if his pyramid scheme is to continue growing.
I guess the smart thing to do is take the F1 calander and plan my own vacations around that...
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Crowded? NASCAR races 67 weekends a year.
Indycar has started doing TWO full point races in a single weekend.
Baseball teams play every day. Hockey and basketball teams play three times a week. Canadian and American football teams even play once a week.
The possibility of being forgotten in a world of 24 hour sports news is something that Bernie must consider if his pyramid scheme is to continue growing.
I guess the smart thing to do is take the F1 calander and plan my own vacations around that...
Thank you for saying that Jeri. Cry me a river about drivers and teams wanting time off in the summer.
In spring, summer and fall, I work very often 3-4 weeks without any day off, and mostly 10-12hr days. Have a wife and kids. We manage. Find time in the off-season for stuff. I couldn't give a toss about hearing about anybody connected with F1 needing time off.
F1 is top tier professional sport. If you don't like the hours, don't apply.
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Scott, I couldn't agree more.
There is no reason the teams require all this time off during the months when the weather is optimal for races in the Northern Hemisphere.
As Jeri mentioned, Bernie needs to pay more attention how fast people will become focused on other things after a week or two with no F1 race to grab their attention.
Formula One may be the so called pinnacle of racing but with the varied other forms of auto racing available to watch on TV or online, it had better be good and frequent.
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Thank god for the Ashes. That's Eng v Aus Test cricket to the uninitiated. That means two innings each over five days - oh never mind. :D
I completely agree about the season not being crowded, but I also think 20 races a year is just about ok, in this day and age. I'd love to see 25+, with races going into the southern hemisphere for the winter. However, for me at least, compared to F1 the other forms of auto racing aren't of interest. I can watch rally, but watching sports cars on track doesn't do it for me. Maybe because I've never owned a performance car...
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I think the problem for F1 to have more races in the season is a cost one, they won't get paid anymore by Bernie but will have considerably increased costs once they get past 20 races, they say they'll need two separate race crews.
The sport is governed by European legislation who have imposed the infamous working time directive on the European community. Even if all the personnel of race teams sign to exempt themselves from the main thrust of the directive there are still rules that will restrict the teams forcing people to work excessively long periods without breaks. Also the Human rights laws in Europe mean the courts fiercely uphold an individuals right to a family life, can't see the FIA wanting a lowly mechanic, or pit lane tea boy ;), taking then to the law courts. :D
Not sure if Bernie's contracts with TV allow him to charge a whole lot more if the race calendar increases, so he will probably argue that he cannot provide more funds for teams to run two separate race weekend crews, which is what it'll take for more than 20 races.
So in essence more races will generate more income to Bernie from race hosting fees but the teams will likely see none of it, that's why the teams haven't agreed to more than 20 in a season.
However the rumour is that the new Concorde agreement, when in place will allow for majority voting on crucial F1 decisions, maybe crafty old Bernard will get his 24 or more races in another year or two. ::)
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There is only one reason that there isn't enough money for the teams to paint the walls in gold and hire as many people as they like to run even 50 races a year.
Bernie - he takes most of it.
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Isn't this the 2nd 3 week in between races we've had
this year?With Vettel looking like he's running away
with another WDC it's hard to stay excited with F1 for
me.
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Part of the reason for the strange break pattern is because Bernie didn't plan it properly. There is, however, some rhyme and reason to the way events played out, and most odd gaps have at least semi-logical reasons for their shape. For all gaps that are not 2 weeks (the normal gap between races):
Australia-Malaysia (1 week): Most staff want to spend as little time in Malaysia as possible due to heat, and the expediters know Malaysia is expensive. Besides, the teams have often spent an age enjoying Australia, and at this point in the season are quite happy to do the rushing about through airports a back-to-back fly-away pair entails.
Malaysia-China (3 weeks): China basically got itself a guaranteed calender spot when it moved from autumn back in the mid-2000s. Not as solid as Monaco's, but Bernie would need a pretty good excuse to move it before the expiry date of the current contract - which I think is 2021. If Malaysia had been 2 weeks after Australia, this would have made more sense, but the expediters prefer to have one "rusharound" pair and one "decent stay at home" pair rather than two "just home long enough to say hi". And as you will see, Bahrain has similar status to China except for a shorter contract.
China-Bahrain (1 week): Bahrain has a "soft special date" race too, thanks to the post-2011 kerfuffle. Pretty sure their contract expires in 2016, and in any case it's being seriously considered for promotion to first race of the season in 2014.
Bahrain-Spain (3 weeks): European season traditionally starts in early May because the last thing F1 wants when it shows up there is to to have frost-related delays.
Canada-Britain (3 weeks): There was supposed to be a New Jersey Grand Prix 2 weeks after Canada, but it didn't happen.
Britain-Germany (1 week): These races are close to one another and would look easy after rushing from New Jersey to Silverstone in only one week. Though given the gap at the other side, there doesn't seem much sense putting Germany when it was.
Germany-Hungary (3 weeks): Not sure what the deal is with Hungary, but it's been the last week of July since it started hosting F1 races back in 1986. No reason to suppose this will ever change. This gap was most likely to make room for the Young Driver Test to be mid-season instead of post-season
Hungary-Belgium (4 weeks): The "summer break" was instituted back in 2003 so the mechanics could get a break (remember they've been zipping all over the world in economy class seats since March - and there was a notable amount of ill-health amongst them in the early 2000s).
While improved fitness and more "gappy" scheduling has reduced the need from a mechanic health perspective, the Resource Restriction Agreement created a new reason for it. The gap is so big that no team feels it misses out too much from a requirement to not use their factory facilities during 2 of the 4 weeks. As this is one of the few cost-cuts the teams will actually agree to do, the FIA and FOM fall over themselves to ensure the gap is there for the teams to use that way.
Korea-Japan (1 week): Close together, and there are no motorhomes to lug around.
India-Abu Dhabi (1 week): Ditto.
United States-Brazil (1 week): Not close together, but by this point I think everyone in the paddock wants the thing over and done...
There is no way I would watch a 67-race season; I've got too many other things to do with my year to spend that many days devoted to just one series. NASCAR fans are impressive in their dedication, but I'm not convinced F1's main fanbase could be convinced to do so. Sports have to plan their events based on when their fans wish to be available to see them, so different series and different sports can be expected to pattern differently, in accordance with exactly who watches them.
Indycars had to double the races in some venues because a bunch of race venues it was counting on fell through - it's about the same total number of races as they'd originally planned for this year, just in different places (and there's less travel than planned, so stress is reduced).
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Indy Car's double weekends have been very successful. Total weekend ticket sales are up from Saturday practice, Sunday race weekends. They are considering more of the same.
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There is no way I would watch a 67-race season; I've got too many other things to do with my year to spend that many days devoted to just one series.
Me either Ali, but I think 25 or so would keep more fans from wandering off to a different sport that has more regularity.
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I think that, if Bernie wants to add his money races of in places where nobody cares about F1, they need to be extra races. They shouldn't be substitutes for real tracks with lots of fans. Therefor, there needs to be more races.
BTW, there is a reason why they can't change the date of the Shanghai race. They took a poll of all the F1 fans in China who attend the race. They both said it was the only week-end they had off.
Over here, most local tracks race every week. Since there are several tracks in any given area, most local team race three times a week-end. For a number of years, we'd race on Friday nights at Lancaster, Saturday nights at Muskingum County and Sunday afternoons at Moxahala or Atomic. And this was with an all volunteer crew. That's just the way it is with grass roots racing.
Some of us older fans can remember when there were only 10 to 12 points races a season. This is much better. Still, I think that they could do 25-30 without much of a strain.
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Some of us older fans can remember when there were only 10 to 12 points races a season. This is much better. Still, I think that they could do 25-30 without much of a strain.
I'm not really too concerned about the total number of races. After all, NFL teams play upto 20 games a season and team owners are rolling in money.
Too much more, and I'd find it harder to watch them all. As it is, I find myself missing most races live.
It's the gap between races that gets me. Even I can find my attention wandering from F1 if there isn't a race for too long.
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Indy Car's double weekends have been very successful. Total weekend ticket sales are up from Saturday practice, Sunday race weekends. They are considering more of the same.
Out of interest: would this be in place of or in addition to (some of) the single-race venues?
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Could go either way. A few tracks are interested because it generates more revenue at almost no cost. The teams are less happy because it shortens practice time. This gives the bigger teams an advantage because they can test more set ups in a short time by spreading it out over several cars. Possibly a reason why Andretti has done so well this year; they all say cooperation and info sharing is top priority this season.
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Indy Car's double weekends have been very successful. Total weekend ticket sales are up from Saturday practice, Sunday race weekends. They are considering more of the same.
Out of interest: would this be in place of or in addition to (some of) the single-race venues?
Twofold: to get the race count up to replace tracks that aren't being used any more.
Also to boost interest at events with flagging attendance.
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I wish they would come back to Phoenix. For a short time they had a weekend that included Sprint cars, Midgets (tons of fun four abreast racing) and Indycars. It was great.
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I wish they would come back to Phoenix. For a short time they had a weekend that included Sprint cars, Midgets (tons of fun four abreast racing) and Indycars. It was great.
It's my understanding they also had ostrich racing... which actually outdrew the F1 race...
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Indy Car's double weekends have been very successful. Total weekend ticket sales are up from Saturday practice, Sunday race weekends. They are considering more of the same.
Out of interest: would this be in place of or in addition to (some of) the single-race venues?
Twofold: to get the race count up to replace tracks that aren't being used any more.
Also to boost interest at events with flagging attendance.
So a combination of both. If those are the reasons, I can't see the schedule going up by much... ...but the trend appears to be slightly upwards, rather than static.
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Comparisons with race schedules in the United States don't carry much weight in my opinion. While the US is certainly large, there's a big difference between travelling around one country to hold a racing series, than there is across countries, and across the globe.
The drivers may well be able to cope with an increased race schedule, but what about all those behind the scenes who we rarely see? The mechanics, and those who work long hours back at the factory, and often end up having to do rush development jobs? These people need that summer break, otherwise they will just burn out.
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The NASCAR teams often have to repair or develop their cars on a week to week basis. And they have 4 or 5 cars to set up and maintain for each driver.
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NASCAR teams have multiple race crews, something strictly forbidden to F1 teams due to cost-cutting. That's how they manage to put cars out every week.
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If by Race Team, you mean the crew who actually go to the race, there is only 1. There are prep crews that do car prep at the shop, but I'm betting F1 has those too. Someone must be operating those 3D printers.
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Lonny's right. The main difference in NASCAR is that each car has it's own pit crew.
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Fair enough. Looks like I misremembered that one - sorry!
(One crew per car would require double the staff, but working 2 cars instead of 1 is likely easier for a staff member than working, say, 24 races instead of 12. Which dents my point somewhat...)