GPWizard F1 Forum

F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Dare on April 24, 2021, 04:44:28 PM

Title: Million pound repair
Post by: Dare on April 24, 2021, 04:44:28 PM
Are the drivers pays included in the cap?


https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/bottas-million-pound-crash-cost-cap-analysis/6433104/
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: John S on April 24, 2021, 08:58:43 PM
No Dare drivers wages not in cap.

Don't it make you laugh though, for years teams like Sauber & Haas have had to grin 'n bear it when their cars are wrecked - sometimes on a regular basis by Grosjean- without complaint. Then suddenly the Mighty Merc can't even handle one totalled W12 without whingeing. No no Toto it's not a million, that's bo**ocks accounting, - just :stop:

Motor racing is dangerous - it says so on every ticket sold.   |-(

Wake up and smell the coffee Toto, take your wrecks on the chin as the minnows frequently do. Lets put an end to this nonsense, all motor racing teams accept damage is part of the game, most have contingencies for just such events.

Just run your team bloody properly Toto and quit the baby wailing.  :P

Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on April 24, 2021, 09:20:30 PM
Toto knows what's what as well as anybody. He's whining in hopes of getting the cap raised or removed. I would like to know how many former employees made redundant by the cap are actually unemployed, how many were just shifted to other Merc divisions and how many were scooped up by other teams looking for some insight into Merc's success.
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: Dare on April 24, 2021, 09:26:55 PM
As mad as Wolfe is he just might garnish Bottas's
paychecks.
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: John S on April 25, 2021, 03:27:35 PM
As mad as Wolfe is he just might garnish Bottas's
paychecks.

  :DD :DD  :DD 
Well he can't get at George's pay cheque even if he wanted too.  ;)
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: Dare on April 25, 2021, 10:28:44 PM
As mad as Wolfe is he just might garnish Bottas's
paychecks.


Now if Russel ever drives for Mercedes Wolfe might be
thinking of knocking a million pounds off the salary he
had in mind just to make Russel pay for it without knowing

  :DD :DD  :DD 
Well he can't get at George's pay cheque even if he wanted too.  ;)
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: Alianora La Canta on April 26, 2021, 09:37:22 AM
The quoted price is believable to me. A full chassis is 0.75 m, plus the cost of making the engine (which Mercedes, as a works team, must pay...) It may even be a slight underestimate that has been rounded down to 1 m. A customer team (now) saying they paid 1 m in this situation would be talking rubbish, since their engine bill stays the same however many engines are involved.

Drivers' wages join the cap in 2023 (partially - the threshold amount is being negotiated) on current plans - but then, as now, a team boss would need to demonstrate that the version of the contract lodged with CRB permits fines for that purpose before issuing them.

Strictly speaking, if it's a UK contract, the fine can't be more than 30 a week (and only issued for weeks where wrongdoing happened) unless outright malice or unusual-for-the-industry recklessness can be demonstrated (in those cases, a receipted bill for replacement is possible provided the end result for that week is still at least minimum wage).  Daft as it sounds, this means Mercedes would have better standing to fine Valtteri that 30 if he left his security pass at home when visiting the factory (cost to Mercedes: maybe 2.50) than for crashing last Sunday (cost to Mercedes: perhaps 1 m); the occasional crash due to bad driving is . This rule is also the legal basis behind swear jars, as far as the UK is concerned.

However, sometimes fines get negotiated between team bosses and driver managers anyway, for the sake of smoothing over relationships.
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: John S on April 26, 2021, 12:59:13 PM

The quoted price is believable to me. A full chassis is 0.75 m, plus the cost of making the engine (which Mercedes, as a works team, must pay...) It may even be a slight underestimate that has been rounded down to 1 m. A customer team (now) saying they paid 1 m in this situation would be talking rubbish, since their engine bill stays the same however many engines are involved.


I'd say that's an upper estimate, your 0.75m would be a whole new car without the engine surely? 

But all parts are not carried over from race to race anyhow, some wear or damage is always possible, even when no shunt occurs, and some parts - often major ones - are replaced by upgrades. Also seems Merc are now backtracking on how much of the wrecked car is truly unsalvageable.  ::)

So taking all the things together I reckon Toto is really over egging the pudding on this claimed 'Million Dollar' cost. 

Really Toto  :stop: can't say I like this sort of unnecessary bleating from the top team.  :nono:
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: Jericoke on April 26, 2021, 03:09:32 PM

The quoted price is believable to me. A full chassis is 0.75 m, plus the cost of making the engine (which Mercedes, as a works team, must pay...) It may even be a slight underestimate that has been rounded down to 1 m. A customer team (now) saying they paid 1 m in this situation would be talking rubbish, since their engine bill stays the same however many engines are involved.


I'd say that's an upper estimate, your 0.75m would be a whole new car without the engine surely? 

But all parts are not carried over from race to race anyhow, some wear or damage is always possible, even when no shunt occurs, and some parts - often major ones - are replaced by upgrades. Also seems Merc are now backtracking on how much of the wrecked car is truly unsalvageable.  ::)

So taking all the things together I reckon Toto is really over egging the pudding on this claimed 'Million Dollar' cost. 

Really Toto  :stop: can't say I like this sort of unnecessary bleating from the top team.  :nono:

Most of the 'cost' is just paying people.  I would imagine the people building an F1 car are quite well compensated for their time, and I'm sure it takes several hours, maybe even days, to build an entire F1 car.

Now, of course, these people would be on the Mercedes payroll anyway, and if they're not being paid to build a new car, they'd be paid to do something else.  The main cost is whatever else they were scheduled to do won't get done, which would happen with or with out the cap anyway.
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: Alianora La Canta on April 27, 2021, 06:23:16 PM

The quoted price is believable to me. A full chassis is 0.75 m, plus the cost of making the engine (which Mercedes, as a works team, must pay...) It may even be a slight underestimate that has been rounded down to 1 m. A customer team (now) saying they paid 1 m in this situation would be talking rubbish, since their engine bill stays the same however many engines are involved.


I'd say that's an upper estimate, your 0.75m would be a whole new car without the engine surely? 

But all parts are not carried over from race to race anyhow, some wear or damage is always possible, even when no shunt occurs, and some parts - often major ones - are replaced by upgrades. Also seems Merc are now backtracking on how much of the wrecked car is truly unsalvageable.  ::)

So taking all the things together I reckon Toto is really over egging the pudding on this claimed 'Million Dollar' cost. 

Really Toto  :stop: can't say I like this sort of unnecessary bleating from the top team.  :nono:

Yes, 0.75 million assumes every single component is a write-off, which is possible if non-destructive testing indicates none of the components would withstand another race. The engine would be between 0.25 and 0.5 million.

While some parts are disposable, that just means there's a cost to replacing those parts that happens every race, which is replaced by the 1 m - 1.25 m for chassis + engine (note that some of the engine ancillaries also get changed every race).

If Merc since found through non-destructive testing that some parts are salvageable, the bill naturally decreases, to whatever extent salvage can be done. Since Toto would have been asked prior to results coming in, and he had reason to think it was a total write-off, he'd have quoted the approximate write-off figure. So he isn't exaggerating so much as superseded.
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: John S on April 28, 2021, 11:32:06 AM
Now we find that Bottas Merc engine is repairable and has been.  :swoon:
This makes even more of a nonsense of Wolff was spouting on so.  >:(

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-salvage-valtteri-bottas-engine-portugal/
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: cosworth151 on April 28, 2021, 01:29:52 PM
Now we find that Bottas Merc engine is repairable and has been.  :swoon:


Think it might end up in Russell's Williams?  ;)
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: Dare on April 28, 2021, 03:41:51 PM
Now we find that Bottas Merc engine is repairable and has been.  :swoon:


Think it might end up in Russell's Williams?  ;)


I doubt if Wolfe would want to give a original Mercedes Team
engine away. I doubt there same as customer engines
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: Alianora La Canta on April 29, 2021, 05:09:15 PM
Now we find that Bottas Merc engine is repairable and has been.  :swoon:


Think it might end up in Russell's Williams?  ;)

No, because it still would count toward Bottas' allocation. Punishing Russell that way would be silly.
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: Andy B on April 30, 2021, 05:04:18 AM
Now we find that Bottas Merc engine is repairable and has been.  :swoon:


Think it might end up in Russell's Williams?  ;)


I doubt there same as customer engines

I thought there was a regulation that said customer engines had to be the same as the main team?
Title: Re: Million pound repair
Post by: cosworth151 on April 30, 2021, 03:05:04 PM
I just thought that maybe George might end up with the "crash tested" engine held together with bubble gum & bailing wire.   ;)
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
Menu Editor Pro 1.0 | Copyright 2013, Matthew Kerle