GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Scott on August 24, 2014, 09:14:08 PM
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I watched the lap one replays they showed at the end of the race, so I don't have the entire picture yet...not sure how Rosberg passed Vettel, since Vettel had him on the first corner, but here's how I see it:
Rosberg attempted the pass on Hammy, slid back as it wasn't going to happen there, but instead of just lifting and slotting in behind, he tried to keep his speed (probably because he was so impatient that he wanted to give it a go at the very next corner). Hammy came over when Rosberg wasn't yet out of the way and well...pop goes the tire. That said, there was a slight wiggle by Rosberg during the moment he was falling back and you could say that was caused by a slight loss of traction, or the conspirators would say Rosberg was trying a bump pass of sorts. I will assume it was the former. If it was the former, then that's it, racing incident. Merc may not have liked that it happened so early, but what difference does it really make if it was destined to happen at all? Why do they care if their drivers take each other out on lap 3 or lap 53? Not very helpful at either end of the GP.
Again, I only saw the two replays, the one off the grid and then the attempted pass of Hamilton. Off the grid it seemed like Hamilton easily had Rosberg and even had Vettel between them. For Rosberg to have made up so much time within the same lap and cut Hamiltons tire? Well, I don't know what could have happened to Hamilton to have let Rosberg so close so quick. Point being Mr. Hamilton, if you don't want that kind of thing to happen, don't let him get so bloody close.
So, if I have it all out of context, be nice to me, I will watch the race tomorrow and get it all sorted out.
Have at 'er...
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I didn't see anything different than the Lewis v's Vettel at the same corner when Vettel did the right thing and bailed out. Rosbergs statement that it was intentional has amazed me and shows his arrogance he needs pegging back a bit.
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Rosberg's statement didn't say it was intentional. Hamilton's did. Rosberg said it was a racing incident and he didn't see the pass attempt as risky. Merc bosses said it was far too aggressive, but in fact that any reports of Rosberg saying he did it on purpose have been misinterpreted. Most reports from the team meeting between them all suggest that Rosberg said he opted to not let off when he found himself on the outside and that Hamilton should have given him space to stay there. That he stayed there intentionally was probably true.
I can't remember where I saw it, but somewhere it was written that the team even changed Rosberg's tire strategy on the last stop to intentionally give him tires that wouldn't win. I find that a bit insane, but you just never know...
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Lewis was tight on the kerb and on the racing line. What's he supposed to do, brake and let Rosberg through ?
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A racing incident in which Rosberg misjudged a couple things. Hamilton gave him no room, but he was not required to do so. Comparing it to the same turn pass of Vettel is a bit different, as they were side-by-side with the attacker completely along side at the apex of the first of the two corners, and Rosberg never got completely along side of Hamilton. In fact, he barely had his front wheel next to the cockpit of Hamilton's car.
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Now a vid has appeared of the incident, so anyone who hasn't been able to watch it again fill your boots. Well for as long as Bernie's little grey suits allow us to anyways. ;)
Now where oh where did Nico think that outside line led to? :crazy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hXvw9yMw8
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Lewis is a racer, if there's a chance he'll take it but I cannot see how any blame can be attached to him over this, there was just no way round the outside because of the left hand corner following. Rosberg's fault. Dummy |-(
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I wasn't really attaching blame to Lewis. What I meant was how did Lewis even allow Rosberg to catch up to him so quickly? Rosberg was a dickhead during and after the race.
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Lewis claims that Nico said he hit Lewis on purpose. Merc appears to be siding with Lewis:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/28921431
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lol...that ought to take it down to a simmer. Wolf and Lauda putting all the blame on Rosberg. Bunch of amateurs if you ask me. Keep the laundry at home, no need to do it in public. I bet Rosberg is feeling ever so cooperative towards them after THAT. :fool: :fool:
I read that article before Cos, but I've read quite a few that quote Rosberg as saying it wasn't on purpose, but he didn't back off to prove the point. So that's a bit open to interpretation, though I would say he did it by negligence by making that poor decision to not back off at that point. I'm not trying to split hairs, but I found that BBC article a bit one sided (surprise, surprise).
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On one hand, I understand how important it is for teams to work as a team, and win in the name of the team.
On the other hand, it's great to have something to talk about like this. We've got 2 conflicting stories of who said what. We've got teammates who were supposedly best buddies in lower Formulae and now appear to heading down the road of becoming irreconcilable antagonists. We've got national conflicts. We've got management picking sides.
If I didn't know better, I'd say this was orchastrated to keep Mercedes at the top of the sports news cycle. I'm not entirely sure this will help sell cars, but they say there's no such thing as bad publicity. :confused:
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If I didn't know better, I'd say this was orchastrated to keep Mercedes at the top of the sports news cycle. I'm not entirely sure this will help sell cars, but they say there's no such thing as bad publicity. :confused:
On the BBC feed Eddie mentioned at one point that viewers were down something like 30% on RTL, so although I don't think the incident itself could have been scripted, the aftermath could have been. You could be right Jeri.
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There have been several incidents this year where Lewis chopped down quite aggressively on Nico. Only Nico taking evasive action prevented a collision. I think Nico is just tired of Lewis acting like he is the chosen one and Nico the supporting cast. If nothing else, Lewis should be a little more careful how hard he chops Nico in the future. I take Nico's side in this, Payback is a B+#@h. Oh, Hobbs and Matchett agreed it was a racing incident, 50/50 blame.
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Sorry to come into this late but....
I was watching live on Sky and I am a neutral. When Rosberg started to go up Hamilton's outside I was asking where the h*ll is he going; it is impossible to pass there.
As Hamilton naturally took the racing line Rosberg had two easy options; lift and drop in behind Hamilton with no risk or let the car run a little wide (there is no kerb and about a metre of astroturf on the left) again with no risk. Instead he made two abrupt steering inputs both turning the car right. Even at the time I thought he was trying to spin Hamilton out. Having watched the replay many times I actually think he was trying to impact Hamilton's car wheel to wheel, which would definitely have caused Hamilton to spin.
I think Hamilton's fantastic start had just caused Rosberg to let the Red Mist develop. I now fear a Senna v Prost situation. The points situation means that Rosberg knows that he can risk to DNF as long as he makes sure Hamilton doesn't finish.
I really hope that the FIA exclude Rosberg from the points - it may be the only way the championship stays interesting.
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Interesting theory Monty. Not sure he was really trying to spin Lewis, I saw the steering correction as well, but that's what I thought it was, a correction.
But the way, Bottas passed Vettel there cleanly.
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But the way, Bottas passed Vettel there cleanly.
It is almost two corners that merge into one (a slight right and then more serious left). If you are completely alongside or slightly in front at the first apex you can cleanly take the second apex (making the person being overtaken lift and stay right).
Rosberg never got alongside so he would have known that it would be impossible to take the second apex - and I do mean impossible. Even if Hamilton had seen him, which I doubt, he was going too fast to pull the car right and leave room for Rosberg. If he had tried he would almost certainly have lost the rear and probably clouted Rosberg anyway.
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It seems that Jenson Button also agrees....
Button also felt Rosberg should've "judged the situation better".
"There was nothing there," he said.
"All there was was going off the circuit. There was no move. Strange.
"I think any driver would look at it now, and I am sure Nico will look at it and say, 'I don't know what was I thinking'.
"You should be able to judge situations like that a bit better."
However, it seems that the FIA will not be taking action so basically Rosberg has got away with cheating again.
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Yeah it seems to be a long standing policy of both stewards and the FIA not to give penalties when teammates come together. I remember saying to my son at the time during the race that the collision, for that's what it was, would not even get looked at by the stewards because it was teammates. ::)
I also remember saying to my son that if it had been anyone other than his teammate causing Lewis' puncture they would have got a drive thru for an avoidable collision.
Just how big a shunt does it have to be for the stewards to at least announce an investigation into one teammate's behaviour to another. The Stewards and FIA seem not to notice that this has an undue affect on the WDC, whilst they can't obviously give points to Lewis they could at least have given a standard penalty, including points on the licence, to Nico.
By allowing teammates to get over exuberant with each other the authorities need to watch out that it doesn't get out of hand. The signal they are sending at the moment is one of total indifference, at the very least, to ungentlemanly behaviour.
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Interesting theory Monty. Not sure he was really trying to spin Lewis, I saw the steering correction as well, but that's what I thought it was, a correction.
But the way, Bottas passed Vettel there cleanly.
I can't help but wonder if Monty is right. It's hard to actually accuse Rosberg without more proof, but as long as he's ahead in the points, he can afford to DNF as long as Lewis DNFs as well.
It DOES fit in with a larger conspiricy (don't mind the foil hat) that Mercedes was trying not to win the race. Perhaps someone from CVC, or one of the TV rights holders, is worried the championship will be sewn up too early, and they want to provide as much drama as possible. Perhaps Mercedes has been given some financial incentive to keep the season 'interesting'.
Obviously I wouldn't accuse anyone of doing this. I'm just another nut posting on the internet.
Right?
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I think too many people/pundits have weighed in to say it was little more than a clumsy move by Rosberg, not intentional and not really worthy of a penalty.
If the conspiracy is like Monty says, then it's one thing, but taking it up to what Jeri suggests? I dunno, if that's seriously the case, then I will really be disappointed in F1, and may go back to watch Friday Night Wrestling ;)
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If you can access the BBC web site they have a full video clip of the 'accident'.
If you watch it there are various things to note:
1. Rosberg doesn't even get his front wheel beyond Hamilton's rear wheel at the first apex (right corner)
2. as they approach the second apex (left) look at how much room Rosberg still has to his left (lots of track and then the astroturf)
3. Watch Rosberg's steering input - one sharp turn to the right, then straightens (still lots of room to the left) then a severe turn to the right so that he hits Hamilton.
After everything I have seen and heard I am even more certain that he did it deliberately.
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Nico give his side, and kisses up to Wolf and Lauda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDY7Sm2osEw
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I believe Jeri makes some interesting points in regards the conspiracy theory.
I have found that anything is possible when the main point is the bottom line. Anything that gets people talking and creates media attention when TV viewership is dropping will start a rise in sponsor profits and what other reason are they involved in the first place.
It would not be the first time an event was manufactured to start a buzz.
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I'm thinking that I could transfer my now redundant dislike of Schumacher over to Rosberg! I can't stand cheats. I see no honour in winning by cheating. Although, I suppose the millions of pounds that come from winning might make honour irrelevant! >:(
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I'm thinking that I could transfer my now redundant dislike of Schumacher over to Rosberg!
I was thinking that the other day already when you posted... :DD :DD :good: :good:
For the record, I can't stand the way Rosberg is to the media - comes across as super arrogant, even in his little video blog. Of course could be just a German thing, but still...but as far as the incident in Spa, I'm going to say it was a stupid move, a clumsy move, but did he try to end Lewis' race on purpose? I don't think so. I think he was just posturing and it went wrong.
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I'm thinking that I could transfer my now redundant dislike of Schumacher over to Rosberg!
I was thinking that the other day already when you posted... :DD :DD :good: :good:
For the record, I can't stand the way Rosberg is to the media - comes across as super arrogant, even in his little video blog. Of course could be just a German thing, but still...but as far as the incident in Spa, I'm going to say it was a stupid move, a clumsy move, but did he try to end Lewis' race on purpose? I don't think so. I think he was just posturing and it went wrong.
Letting the truth get in the way of a good story?
Where's the fun in that? :tease:
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How come an incident that had nothing to with racing, was clearly made to send a message to the team-mate, was a racing incident. In the chat room I repeatedly said, stewards ought to take action against Rosberg, because the intend and implication resulted in a dangerous situation, which could have been avoided also the driver in question tends to benefit from the incident, how can this be a racing incident?
Alain Prost did termed it as racing incident, if I was the journalist taking the interview I would have asked him, how different is it from the 1990's Suzuka? If it is a racing incident, so was that, and why did you then wanted to punch Senna? The similarities are striking, Senna wanted to make a point, gained the world championship out of it, and it was regarded as racing incident.
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F1 drivers take Rosberg's side against Hamilton.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/114090380606/drivers-back-rosberg-over-hamilton-clash (http://www.worldcarfans.com/114090380606/drivers-back-rosberg-over-hamilton-clash)
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F1 drivers take Rosberg's side against Hamilton.
None of these statements are 'against Hamilton'. They simply say that Rosberg could not have deliberately punctured Hamilton's tyre.
It is a fact that Rosberg acknowledged that he chose not to avoid the accident; Hamilton reported this fact as - Rosberg deliberately hit him. I think everyone has to agree that choosing not to avoid an accident is the same thing as deliberately causing an accident.
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Where did Nico say he deliberately chose not to avoid the accident? All of these drivers say it was a racing incident. I would rather Nico seized every opportunity to pass than tamely follow Lewis the whole race to insure a Mercedes 1-2. Didn't realize we had a chapter of the Hamilton fan club here.
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Didn't realize we had a chapter of the Hamilton fan club here.
In his column for the Daily Mail, Rosberg comments.
"In hindsight, the collision was my responsibility because I was the car trying to overtake, so I have to accept that I made a mistake and to apologise," he wrote.
"It has always been clear from the team that Lewis and I must not collide with one another during a race. If it did happen, and one driver is more responsible than the other, then there will be consequences. I've accepted that."
"I was booed on the podium - which wasn't a nice feeling - but I understand that people had travelled a long way to see a great race between Lewis and myself, and they did not get that. I totally respect their opinion and I hope that in time they will accept my apology."
For the record, I am not a Hamilton fan.
It really irritates me when people ignore the facts and make the story fit their interpretation. Rosberg has acknowledged that he didn't avoid the accident from the day it happened.
Hamilton was completely innocent - he was driving a brilliant first lap and got maliciously taken out by his team mate. Jenson Button and many others have voiced their amazement that Rosberg tried an impossible overtake.
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I am not ignoring the facts, he says the accident was his fault, he doesn't say he did it deliberately. There is no doubt he is at fault, but the same sort of coming together has happened before with a number of drivers without anyone suggesting it was deliberate. Rosberg tried a pass that was not on and clouted his team mate, he was not trying to take Lewis out.
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I'm not in the fan club either but Hamilton is definitely innocent this time, if I want to join his fan club I will Lonny. :tease:
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Lewis claims that Nico said he hit Lewis on purpose. Merc appears to be siding with Lewis:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/28921431
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Hey Ian, like I could stop you (or would). I mostly like Lewis myself, but he has become a bit of a whiner. And Monty, that is Lewis opinion, not an admission by Nico. This is a type of accident that happens almost every race in F1 and is universally tagged a "racing incident" I don't understand why everyone is so quick to dump on Nico.
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Part of racing is staying out of trouble. How did Lewis allow Rosberg to catch up so quickly when after turn 1 he was 2 places back?
Though Rosberg could and perhaps should have fallen back, Lewis most likely knew he was there and took his racing line anyhow. Both likely thought at worst their wheels would bang a bit. Had that happened, it would have been a racing incident and 'nough said. The only reason there is controversy is because Lewis was fighting back against Rosberg's points lead, he took the hit, and it kinda was Rosberg's fault because if he hadn't tried to pass Lewis on the second lap, none of this would have happened. In that sense it was Rosberg's fault. He obviously had the speed on Hamilton - he caught him from a 3rd place in one and a half laps. If it didn't happen on lap 2, it would have happened on lap 5 or so, but Rosberg was seeing red because of his lousy start and couldn't hold back. Again, his bad. He could have won the race and left Lewis in his dust if he had that kind of differential on Hamilton.
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Didn't realize we had a chapter of the Hamilton fan club here.
Guilty as charged M'lud. :P
Lewis for me is by far a better racer than Rosberg. Nico plays the percentages all the time rather than balls out racing, I simply can't applaud that as the main method to win a championship - although it does push him up the points table. :(
Rosberg has also shown a rather insidious streak to his personality this year; whereas Lewis is his usual prickly and needy self - but with such a special gift for wringing everything, and sometimes too much, from a car and track. ;)
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I would say that 'gift' is shared by quite a few F1 drivers, Lewis isn't so special.
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I would say that 'gift' is shared by quite a few F1 drivers, Lewis isn't so special.
That's why your not in our chapter of his fan club. :tease:
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Just glad he pays his taxes here, helps keep our roads clean. :tease: :tease:
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And Monty, that is Lewis opinion, not an admission by Nico
There are none so blind as those that will not see!
I wasn't there but all of the reports from the team acknowledge that Rosberg agreed that he could have avoided the accident but chose not to. He hit Hamilton to make a point.
Surely even you (should I suggest you are in the Rosberg fan club) could see that it was an avoidable accident. Rosberg had loads of room to his left but he actually steered into Hamilton. Let me see..... could stay left but instead turned steering wheel hard right......that is deliberate. Isn't it?
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Find something that says on the way up to the corner Nico decided to take Lewis out, knowing full well that he would also probably be taking himself out as well and I'll say it was deliberate. i have also seen people go around the corner side by side without contact. Wouldn't it have been smart of Lewis to leave a bit of room just in case Rosberg was still there? Lewis has chopped Nico many times this season to prevent him from passing and Nico has always managed to avoid contact. I can't blame him for choosing to hold his line this time around. Maybe Lewis will be a bit less likely to run Nico off the track in the future. Frankly, I have no personal favorite among the current crop of drivers, most of whom seem like spoiled children. Ricciardo is growing on me though even if he does drive for Red Bull. This just seems like the same sort of contact we see in almost every race and it is usually dismissed as a racing incident. Because Lewis got the short end this time around, everyone is up in arms over Nico ruining Lewis' race. Might I suggest your obvious affection for Lewis is coloring your view of what you see and read?
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In this argument, I simply take the side of Wolf and Lauda ( :crazy: :crazy:)...Nico's mistake wasn't that he should have braked, it wasn't how he drove, or if he turned into Hammy, it wasn't that he tried to pass, it was simply that he tried to overtake on lap 2 instead of waiting until things calmed down a few laps later (in reality, all he really had to do was stay within a second of Lewis until the DRS kicked in).
Of course it's a bit hard to take the race out of the racer, so how they think he will ever listen to an instruction like 'wait until things calm down', I have no clue. I think there isn't a driver on todays grid who - when in pole position, and lost places when the lights go out - doesn't fight as hard as they can immediately to gain those places back. Nico did exactly what Lewis would have done in the same position.
I can see both sides, can understand those who say it was Nico's fault (in principle), but can't see any way to avoid it in the future, team orders or not.
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Might I suggest your obvious affection for Lewis is coloring your view of what you see and read?
I don't know why you are so intent on making this personal.
I am not a Hamilton fan. I have simply stated the facts. Rosberg could have avoided the accident. Rosberg has acknowledged he could have avoided the accident. Rosberg was behind and had no chance of overtaking. Hamilton was in front, could not see Rosberg, he was on the racing line and did not change line. Rosberg was not on the racing line, he could see Hamilton and still steered right into Hamilton.
You are entitled to your opinion but you cannot ignore the facts. Rosberg ruined Hamilton's race, took a lot excitement out of the race for us neutral race fans and put himself in an artificial position in the Championship.
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Except you keep stating your opinion as "facts".
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I'm of the firm opinion that the only thing unintentional about Rosberg's move was the very final misjudgement resulting in him hitting Lewis. However my beef is what Nico was doing hanging on so long up the outside of Lewis, where oh where did he expect to go - more to the point what did he expect to gain from positioning himself there? :DntKnw:
Seems to me his positioning was clearly a recipe for trouble, either just for himself if he took the escape route avoiding the corner, or for both; which is indeed what happened.
I think the nub of this whole saga is that at this level of racing both his team, and everyone else, can't quite fathom how such an experienced driver can make such a stupid move, especially having inherited the second spot from Vettel whilst watching him take the escape route trying a similar line at that same corner on the lap before. ......Just plain :crazy: an avoidable accident in my view not a racing incident. >:(