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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: cosworth151 on February 08, 2011, 01:43:03 PM

Title: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: cosworth151 on February 08, 2011, 01:43:03 PM
Renault team principal Eric Boullier is defending letting Robert Kubica go rallying. It looks like the only problem Renault had with it was that he would be driving a Skoda.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110207/F1/110209916 (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110207/F1/110209916)
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: David on February 08, 2011, 01:53:03 PM
Seems insane to allow such an asset take risks when the consequence's can be so great. It's like letting a race horse pull wagons on it's day off.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: purespeed on February 08, 2011, 02:18:58 PM
You can get killed walking a doggy (that's a Pacino quote). It happened and it's a shame, but you can't harp on it, especially because the one hurt most is Kubica.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Jericoke on February 08, 2011, 02:38:31 PM
You can get killed walking a doggy (that's a Pacino quote). It happened and it's a shame, but you can't harp on it, especially because the one hurt most is Kubica.

Heat is such a fantastic movie.

But you're right... if you force Kubica to choose F1 or Rally, he's just going to go to another team that doesn't force him to choose.  He's a racer, and he's going to race.  Without that edge, he's not the driver that Lotus/Renault/Genii wants.

It sucks for him, it sucks for his family, his fans, his team and his sport.  I hate that this happened, but hopefully it's just a bump in his career, and another call towards making rally safer.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Williamsfan on February 08, 2011, 02:54:47 PM
I agree with Jeri and purespeed.  A driver will (usually) have another high octane interest they want to pursue away from F1 and preventing them from doing this could mean we lose more good guys from the sport.  Several drivers seem to love rallying, I guess due to the thrill of the driving and the relative lack of PR that goes with it.  JB and Rosberg love pushing themselves in high stamina activities such as triathlons and Webber loves his cycling.  Sadly accidents will always happen so you just have to hope people like Kubica can recover fully.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: cosworth151 on February 08, 2011, 03:03:20 PM
I also agree. Webber was injured riding a bike, Montoya while playing tennis. Rallying, and other motorsports, could be a way of keeping a driver's shills sharp in this day of testing limits.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Dare on February 08, 2011, 03:07:54 PM
video of the car that ran behind Kubica's.Shows how
tight this heat was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poMm18Bu8bo&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poMm18Bu8bo&feature=related)
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Scott on February 08, 2011, 03:39:47 PM
Omigod that was frightening seeing the car like that. 

I was a bit skeptical when the driver behind Kubica said that the guard rail was sticking out the back of the hatch in an interview, but there it was in plain view.  Forget his injuries, Kubica should thank his stars he's still alive.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Williamsfan on February 08, 2011, 03:57:36 PM
Absolutely Scott.  That was frightening to see.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Jericoke on February 08, 2011, 06:00:42 PM
video of the car that ran behind Kubica's.Shows how
tight this heat was.


It's no surprise Americans aren't interested in this sport.  Good luck getting anything with a V8 on that road.

But I agree with other people:  Kubica is lucky to get out of that wreck alive.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: David on February 08, 2011, 09:39:14 PM
Don't get me wrong I don't think that drivers should be stopped participating in  extracurricular activities, they would no doubt protest and quite rightly. However form a business perspective it does seem mad for teams to take the risk with such valuable assets. Rallying is more than a little risky than doggy walking especially on asphalt where the speeds are extreme.

Seeing that footage does bring it home that Robert is very very luck to be alive. We can only hope that he makes a recovery that allows him to compete at the level he so deserves to be at.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Scott on February 08, 2011, 10:04:59 PM
I'm leaning your way David.  There are plenty of other activities a driver can take up in their spare time that aren't life threatening.  Lot's of companies don't allow moonlighting, why should F1?  Sure, you can get hurt doing anything, and that's tragic when you do, but it's all about risk, and rally racing is a pretty massive risk.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: John S on February 08, 2011, 11:46:31 PM

GPUpdate.net has a photo showing the rear of Kubica's wrecked rally car, shows he is probably lucky to be alive.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/252182/new-photo-demonstrates-kubica-s-lucky-escape/ (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/252182/new-photo-demonstrates-kubica-s-lucky-escape/)



Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: stealthhaggis on February 09, 2011, 08:48:16 AM
He's a lucky man in many ways, very unlucky in another though! Kubica can do whatever he likes frankly, it's his life. If an F1 team want a driver of his quality when the team is not a front runner then they have to agree to his terms. Red Bull almost lost Mark Webber due to cycling so I get rather irritated when people (and there have been some shocking attacks on him for rallying) criticise what he does with his life. When he had his big shunt a few years back nobody said anything other than F1 is a dangerous sport. I mean a guy died the other day after eating a corn beef sandwich! What would be said then, tragic, freak accident? Sounds about right for what happened to Robert the other day too.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Scott on February 09, 2011, 12:25:08 PM
Absolutely, he can do whatever he wants with his life, but if he signed a contract with MY F1 team (I can dream), he wouldn't be rallying or he'd be out of a drive.  Simple.

Every accident is a freak accident, but it's still a much higher risk to be rally racing than biking.  Good for him he likes to do rally races.  When he retires from F1, he can join full time and do all he likes.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: cosworth151 on February 09, 2011, 01:22:55 PM
Quote
Absolutely, he can do whatever he wants with his life, but if he signed a contract with MY F1 team (I can dream), he wouldn't be rallying or he'd be out of a drive.  Simple.

And then he might pull a Kimi, go rallying and leave you with Yugi Ide.  ;)

Shortly after I started my current job, back in the 80's, I was called into the front office. I was told that I'd have to give up racing and flying. I tossed the keys to my company car on the table and said I'd have my office cleaned out by the end of the day.
By the end of the day, the company was a sponsor of my race team.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Scott on February 09, 2011, 04:17:18 PM
That's my whole point...if I go to the trouble of signing a Kubica, I don't want to end up with a Sutil (or whoever it might end up being) because there are only leftover drivers when the season starts.

It's great that they recognized your value after a standoff, but I'm talking about when the contract is first signed...

But now that you mention Kimi...I wonder if Renault has given him a call?   ;)
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: cosworth151 on February 09, 2011, 04:24:04 PM
Quote
But now that you mention Kimi...I wonder if Renault has given him a call?   ;)

Or if Skoda has.  :D
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: John S on February 09, 2011, 05:06:34 PM

But now that you mention Kimi...I wonder if Renault has given him a call?   ;)

Citroen have confirmed he is not signed on contract as a works driver this year, he is a customer for them with his own sponsors putting up the money. Might take more than Genii or Proton have in the bank to get Kimi in the car though.



 
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Jericoke on February 09, 2011, 05:27:58 PM

But now that you mention Kimi...I wonder if Renault has given him a call?   ;)

Citroen have confirmed he is not signed on contract as a works driver this year, he is a customer for them with his own sponsors putting up the money. Might take more than Genii or Proton have in the bank to get Kimi in the car though.



Depends on the insurance they took out on Kubica.

I'm going to bet that if teams continue to allow their drivers to take part in 'dangerous' activities, they're going to have to pony up the insurance money:   "Alright Mark, you can ride a bike, but first sign this, so we can afford Kimi when you fall off.  Again."
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on February 09, 2011, 06:21:15 PM
By those rules, Moss would never have won the Mille Miglia, Bruce McLaren would never have entered the Can-Am, Clark, Hill,and Stewart wouldn't have been at Indy, etc. Boring, just like most of today's F1 drivers.

Lonny
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Scott on February 10, 2011, 12:23:21 PM
Sorry, can't compare eras like that.  F1 is huge business now, and the investment a team makes in a driver can be more in a year than any of those guys made in their career.  Plus doing other races, like Indy or Mille Miglia were once a year and would bring extra publicity to the F1 teams, not the other way around like today.

If I was a team owner (still in dreamland here), I would have no problem if there was no schedule conflict and my star driver wanted to do Le Mans, Bathurst, or Daytona, but I'd draw the line at Dakar, or any other rally.  It's a totally different level of safety.  Something goes wrong at those others, safety precautions are in place that minimize injury and most often prevent death.  Dakar or other rally's?  Forget it - luck and mother nature make the decisions when a wheel is placed wrong. 
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: David on February 10, 2011, 09:29:12 PM
Sorry, can't compare eras like that.  F1 is huge business now, and the investment a team makes in a driver can be more in a year than any of those guys made in their career.  Plus doing other races, like Indy or Mille Miglia were once a year and would bring extra publicity to the F1 teams, not the other way around like today.

If I was a team owner (still in dreamland here), I would have no problem if there was no schedule conflict and my star driver wanted to do Le Mans, Bathurst, or Daytona, but I'd draw the line at Dakar, or any other rally.  It's a totally different level of safety.  Something goes wrong at those others, safety precautions are in place that minimize injury and most often prevent death.  Dakar or other rally's?  Forget it - luck and mother nature make the decisions when a wheel is placed wrong. 

Can't help but agree Scott.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on February 11, 2011, 02:34:43 AM
OK, you're the manager of a mid level team like Renault. Nearly all of the best drivers, the ones whose talent is worth 2-3 grid positions, drive for the top teams. But, here is Kubica, a difference maker, who says I will drive for you but only if I can do rallies on the side. Do you take the chance and sign him or settle for Petrov who will dedicate himself only to F!?

Lonny
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Scott on February 11, 2011, 08:52:10 AM
I don't think Kubica was holding all the cards when he signed for Renault, and if he would rather have gone back to Sauber for a fraction of the money and rally or stay at Renault and not rally, I suspect he wouldn't have walked away.

Anyhow, It doesn't really matter.  I honestly hope he can return to F1 at the same level he was at before the accident.  I'll never be in a position to make any of those decisions, but my opinion remains that rallying is way too dangerous for an F1 driver to be playing in if they are serious about their F1 career.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Willy on February 12, 2011, 12:23:53 AM
This just goes directly back to the ban on in-season testing.
As Kubica himself said from his hospital bed, the lack of testing forces the drivers to look for other avenues to hone their skills and reflexes.
If the FIA and teams allowed testing it would be done on F1 tracks with FIA sanctioned safety regs and all the track safety devices in place.
Not down tiny little back-country roads at high speed and dodgy road conditions.
F1 testing would give the drivers much needed extra time behind the wheel and we all know that the more you do something, the better you get at it.
 
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: John S on February 12, 2011, 10:54:16 AM

I think Kubica is being slightly disingenuos using the lack of testing as his reason for taking part in the rally, he wanted to go rallying when he was at BMW but Mario Theisson said 'no way Jose'. I would respect Robert more if he accepted that his free choice to go rallying, because he liked the buzz from it, has laid him up in the hospital bed. I don't see a large, or even small, number of other drivers jumping into rally cars, now is there a clue about risk there?     

Having said that I agree that the testing rule could be relaxed a bit, especially to help prospective F1 drivers to get more experience and for them to get better known by the teams for strenghts and weaknesses. However we must not get back to the unlimited testing that allows one or two over funded teams to dominate the championship as we have seen in the past.


Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Scott on February 12, 2011, 11:43:23 AM
I didn't like how he tied that in to the testing ban either.  I'm very open to resuming in-season testing, in fact I'd be happiest if they extended the GP weekend by a day for testing.  Independent tests wouldn't be a bad idea either, but they have to figure out a way to reduce costs (how about Ferrari just lets everyone use their track for free?).

I don't believe Kubica was rallying as training for F1.  Sure, some aspects of it help, but c'mon, he was having fun (up until last week).
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on February 13, 2011, 12:12:47 AM
I suspect Robert is using his accident as a wedge to get the FIA and Teams to reconsider the testing ban. If you gotta be laid up, you might as well get some value if you can. He was very unlucky. nudging the church wall, which bounced him into the guardrail. So far, so good, but when he arrived at a joint in the rail, it was misaligned and the protruding end of the second section speared the car. if the guardrail is properly installed, it's just another  rally incident. Rally cars are designed to withstand blunt impacts, not penetrating impacts.

Lonny
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: Willy on February 14, 2011, 12:12:18 AM
However we must not get back to the unlimited testing that allows one or two over funded teams to dominate the championship as we have seen in the past.  (ftp://However we must not get back to the unlimited testing that allows one or two over funded teams to dominate the championship as we have seen in the past.)
I agree with this statement and would want the FIA to regulate when and how much testing can be done,  As mentioned, the teams with deeper pockets would be having third cars and drivers running full time if they could get an advantage from it.
Title: Re: Boullier Defends Kubica Rallying
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on February 14, 2011, 01:14:37 AM
That is exactly how Schumacher won most of those WDCs.

Lonny
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