GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => F1 Teams => Topic started by: cosworth151 on March 17, 2015, 11:30:11 AM
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Drinks maker red Bull it threatening to leave F1 if Renault can't tweak their under performing engine.
"They're using last year's wings," marveled Christian Horner. "Our new chassis is half a second better than the last year.
"The difference is the engine," he insisted.
Maybe they'd like a NASCAR/TUSC style Balance Of Performance.
http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/red-bull-threatens-leave-formula-one
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So, they threaten to quit when they're not winning? That's really rather immature. Lots of top teams go through cycles of not winning, and have to find a way to bounce back to the front. Red Bull needs to think about that before making rather daft comments about quitting.
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Seems to me they are tossing the binky out of the pram, like a 2-year-old who isn't getting to watch the TV program he/she wants.
Sauber turned it around with no where near the budget of RBR.
No body made them stick it out with Renault, which seems to be at the heart of the problem.
McLaren isn't whining over their woes . . .
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They're threatening to quit because they think they've been saddled with a useless engine for the next 6 years - something Christian knows the board won't tolerate. It's less a question of whether Christian will make the team quit and more "the board is asking questions I can't answer".
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Dieter has walked away from other sports, including shutting down the Red Bull NASCAR team when it wasn't winning.
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Didn't hear Horner whinging when Vettel was winning year after year.
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Red Bull expects a return on investment.
Being a scrappy F1 team is good for business
Being a championship f1 team is good for business
Being a winning F1 team is good for business
Being a washed up F1 team isn't.
It's up to them to reframe the team as something else until they can get back into one of the first 3 categories.
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Actually the Red Bull is asking Mercedes to stop treating the drivers equally and pick a driver with Mark Webber effects. I think that is the definition of their equalization.
What a pathetic sore loser if the above statement not true, because when they were winning 13 races with one driver in a season, 4 straight doubles, didn't the other teams felt the same, but instead of making such pathetic comments, they kept of fighting.
If Red Bull think they will always the winner, its best for the both parties that they leave the sports.
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The engine regulations are a problem, a big problem. If a team has a dog of a car, they can spend whatever they have to fix that problem. The engine, no chance. You blew the design, you are stuck with the crappola engine, and that's life.
You think because Coke brought out 'New Coke' that they should be forced to keep it for 5 years before they have any chance of correcting it? No, of course not, they should be able to bring out Coke Classic in a matter of weeks and not lose their shirt. Such a ridiculous business practice would ruin a company, and Red Bull and Lotus are looking at serious issues if they are forced to run a dog engine for 5 years.
Before the stupid Turbo, teams could develop their engines to bring them up to snuff. Some could afford to, and knew how to, others didn't. The dominance of RBR was mostly due to Newey, not an FIA regulation. Even if Newey made a mistake, he could change it right away during testing or during the first couple of races. No chance with the engines.
I don't think RBR should leave the sport over it, but I think FOM/FIA and the teams need to sort out a way to make the engines competitive.
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Didn't hear Horner whinging when Vettel was winning year after year.
My thoughts too Ian and I agree that just because you
have a bad engine you shouldn't be stuck with it....
In the real world let's say you get a bad wife,now should
you be forced to stick with her?Should be the same with
a bad engine ;)
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Can't comment on that Dare, sometimes someone is looking over my shoulder. ::)
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Can't comment on that Dare, sometimes someone is looking over my shoulder. ::)
Now you know I wasn't counting your sweet little lady
in my comments Ian ;)
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'Sweet ?' :DD :DD :DD
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Don't know about wives Dare, but Red Bull are free to divorce Renault anytime. ;)
I'm sure Cosworth could cobble together a power unit that runs as good as the Honda does at the moment. :DD
Just as a point of order Red Bull are not saying lets divorce they're asking for a boob job and a massive nip and tuck.......... good luck in selling that to a the wife. :D
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In the real world let's say you get a bad wife,now should
you be forced to stick with her?
Absolutely not! Send her home to her husband at once!
I thought Cosworth said it wasn't interested in V6 turbos.
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Just as a point of order Red Bull are not saying lets divorce they're asking for a boob job and a massive nip and tuck.......... good luck in selling that to a the wife. :D
:DD :DD :DD :DD
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Now Ecclestone is saying Mercedes need to be slowed down. >:D
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So he's taken Dieter's call then... ;)
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Looking into Red Bull & Renault's exploding engine problems throws up some peculiar and tricky regulation issues which may be the reason for their very public tough stance.
It appears that you can't use development tokens on any power unit/engine that you have put race mileage on. :swoon: So with an engine down for Ricciardo before the race he had to run a 2nd in the race, so that's two engines out of the four gone as far as upgrading is concerned.
Now if another of the RBR top gun's units fail before Renault are ready to use the tokens for upgrades he'll be down to one better spec engine for the rest of the season before grid drops apply. Meanwhile other engine makes will be free to put unused token upgrades onto a max of 3 power units per car.
This, amongst other things, is what's infuriating Red Bull I think, but I'll let Andy Urlings of f1technical.net explain more fully.
http://www.f1technical.net/news/19976
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Whoops, does Newey have his foot in his mouth? Marko is now admitting that RBR's woes are not only down to the engine power...seems their chassis is not behaving like a WDC chassis should ;) ;)
http://thisisf1.com/2015/04/02/rb11-chassis-issues-deeper-than-renault-engine-red-bull/
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This just confirms to me that Renault and Cyril in particular has Horner, Marko and Newey on the run with such furious back pedalling from them, see my post in the thread 'Might STR go yellow'.
Don't quite get Mateschitz thinking though if he's considering selling STR to Renault. :confused: He must know the other engine makers won't supply him so is he considering pulling the plug on F1, :swoon: or has he got VW/Audi or someone else in the wings for a year or two's time? :DntKnw:
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I could see Red Bull pulling out suddenly - they do have a reputation for that elsewhere - but the exit penalty rule means they'll have buyers lined up first. Renault to buy Toro Rosso after a trial run with "increased presence", I guess, and then whoever's available to buy Red Bull itself.
Unless F1 income goes below £750 m/year (possible) in which case Red Bull takes a golden parachute, doesn't have to pay any penalties, and can just leave. (If so, Ferrari and Mercedes may leave at the same time...)