GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Scott on September 04, 2015, 04:50:49 PM
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Where to start...Monza was my first ever F1 race (Ian's too). Located on the outskirts of Milano, Italy's second largest city, the track is situated in a massive green park. Dripping with history mainly because the Italians generally don't tear down things they have abandoned, so there are bits of the original track and infrastructure all over the area, including the iconic banked curve on the north end of the original track is where it stood with the new track going through a short tunnel below it (which was originally an access tunnel for the oval track).
I won't try to paraphrase all the historic moments as many of you probably know them better than I do, and if not, most of them are here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodromo_Nazionale_Monza.
I fear this years race won't be much different than last, at least as far as the results go. Lewis Pole, Lewis Win, Rosberg second and a Williams 3rd (Alonso retired from an engine problem also). Last year Pirelli brought orange and white tires, and I suspect they will again this year. A bit of rain is expected on Saturday, which could create a gamble for the teams, but Sunday is supposed to be a dry race, partly cloudy.
I have a group I have to make Raclette for on Sunday during the race, so I won't be around this week, unless I pop in a bit near the end if they eat quickly.
Bel Giorno!
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News at Monza...
No BBC coverage, so I'll have to download an english version of it later.
Hulk & Perez expected to stay with FIF1. Bottas & Massa to stay at Williams.
Lotus has all its bits and can go racing.
(yawn) Mclaren facing grid penalties.
Hamilton doesn't want to share engines with RBR.
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I guess this is where I find out if my gym has decent Radio 5 Live reception (it gets a bunch of media channels piped into all its machines and I had great fun watching Spa qualifying on various pieces of equipment).
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Sorry to gloat but I've got Sky coverage. :tease:
Shame is though I've gotta work tomorrow so won't see quali til well after 9pm, I'm at home for the race though. :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
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I've gotta find a decent stream. Grrrr.
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Hamilton doesn't want to share engines with RBR.
Oh, I'm sure that the Merc engines that RBR get will be exactly like the ones that Merc uses in it's own cars. :DD
And I'm sure that RBR will be complaining loudly about it.
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Well, I was a little surprised, pleasantly I must say. Ferrari in P2 and 3, splitting the Mercs and Wiliams both right behind them all on the time sheet.
Aside from the penalties that may, and likely will come . . .
1. Hamilton Mercedes 1m 23.397
2. Raikkonen Ferrari 1m 23.631
3. Vettel Ferrari 1m 23.685
4. Rosberg Mercedes 1m 23.703
5. Massa Williams 1m 23.940
6. Bottas Williams 1m 24.127
7. Perez Force India 1m 24.626
8. Grosjean Lotus 1m 25.054
9. Hulkenberg Force India 1m 25.317
10. Ericsson Sauber 1m 26.214
11. Maldonado Lotus 1m 24.525
12. Nasr Sauber 1m 24.898
13. Sainz Jr Toro Rosso 1m 25.618
14. Kvyat Red Bull 1m 25.796
15. Ricciardo Red Bull no time Q2
16. Button McLaren 1m 26.058
17. Alonso McLaren 1m 26.154
18. Stevens Manor 1m 27.731
19. Merhi Manor 1m 27.912
20. Verstappen Toro Rosso no time Q1
Hamilton could be in very serious trouble if he mucks up his start again this weekend. 8)
Ericson is likely going to get a penalty, even though it had no impact upon the eventual outcome of qualifying, for blocking Hulk in Q1. The kid has to be more aware of his surroundings when poking about on a warm-up-the-tires lap.
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The STR & RBR mechanics worked hard to get Max V & Danny Ric out in the last moments of Q1. Sadly, the STR crew forgot to check the latches on Max's engine cover. Look quickly before Bernie's Youtube minons do their thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsVlWs4NxLM
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What a dream come true, IF
Hamilton blows another start.
Kimi, Vettel, Massa (after pasing Rosberg) and maybe Bottas are leading the Mercs at the end of lap 1.
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I am praying for a bad start from the Mercs, even an engine fail for Hamilton, just to keep a semblance of a championship alive.
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Whilst I agree Lewis may get swamped at the start he clearly has the pace on everyone to get back into the numero uno spot................. Unless he throws another series of wobblies which is quite possible. ::)
Now that'd play havoc with the GG wouldn't it. ;)
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Beware. Hamilton (and Rosberg) were found to have 0.3 psi less pressure in one tyre than was proper at the start of the race. This is a breach of the Technical Regulations and therefore, if proven, likely to lead to his disqualification.
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The FIA have stated that no further action will be taken, Lewis retains his position as winner.
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Belated gym report: its Radio 5 Live coverage is excellent and I was able to listen to the whole race on various machines. Plus I think I may have converted someone to F1 in the process (in return for a promise to explain to him how to get MotoGP onto the gym TVs).
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Seems like rules are meant to be ignored as well as broken.
Seems like nothing in F1 has rules set in stone.....from the lousey
stewards to ignoring rule infractions. :DntKnw:
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Sadly that is also my impression. Completely changed my outlook on the race, and not for the better :(
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Yeah, I guess it has to go through the political stewards as well as the safety stewards.
Too bad, I really enjoyed the scramble at the end. Merc was banking on a 25sec. time penalty so they were telling Lewis to pick up the pace even though there was nobody behind him for 20+ seconds. Hilarious.
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Mercedes was counting on a 25 second penalty but dq
was what the rules called for.
After the race seems no one at Mercedes had any idea
what was going .
Much as I hate to see someone get a win over a rules infraction
Mercedes knew what they were doing and Vettel was robbed
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Seems like rules are meant to be ignored as well as broken.
Seems like nothing in F1 has rules set in stone.....from the lousey
stewards to ignoring rule infractions. :DntKnw:
Whilst I agree it looks bad to escape penalty the rules need to be written better, not cobbled together in a hurry in response to a whingeing driver's outburst that caused so much negative publicity for the tyre supplier.
I think the Stewards called this one right, take a look
at the actual wording of Stewards adjudication post Monza:-
(https://thejudge13.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/2015-09-06monzamerc.png?w=540&h=360)
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Still seems pretty grey to me, why were the tire blankets unplugged so prematurely?
Whatever...I think if they make a rule with a number in it and that number is exceeded or not met, then there should be some kind of penalty. It seemed even clear that Merc figured it would be a 25sec penalty. Why would they think that if the rule was for DQ? Probably because a 25sec penalty was also an option for punishment and they figured at worst they would get that.
As corrupt or twisted the rule making and enforcing is in F1, they could have also just DQ'd Lewis and tighten up the championship a bit, let a Ferrari win at Monza and the world would be a better place. :tease: :tease: Oh well...'missed opportunity' is what I'm sure Bernie is saying to Jean right now in some smokey Italian restaurant.
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At least I got my wish for an engine failure, just in the wrong car.
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As corrupt or twisted the rule making and enforcing is in F1, they could have also just DQ'd Lewis and tighten up the championship a bit, let a Ferrari win at Monza and the world would be a better place. :tease: :tease: Oh well...'missed opportunity' is what I'm sure Bernie is saying to Jean right now in some smokey Italian restaurant.
Nice thought Scott, however Bernie has so much trouble with Renault still undecided that he can't afford to upset Merc.
Toto's retaliation could see Red Bull without a competitive power unit for next year so they chuck in the towel, or worse Dieter Zetsche, Daimler-Benz chairman who was present at Monza, could pull the plug entirely on their F1 programme.
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I think the FIA have made themselves look even more stupid than ever. They do not have a policy of checking tyre pressures on the grid (tyre pressures are monitored by Pirelli in the garage). However, on this occasion they send out an FIA technician who only checks the first 4 cars and not under a controlled procedure. The rule is that the tyre pressures should be checked at the same time as the tyre temperatures with the tyre blankets connected and at full temperature. On this occasion they do not bother to check if the tyre blankets were connected. It should have been obvious (would have been obvious to a Pirelli engineer) that the temperatures were much lower than you would expect if the tyre blankets were connected but they still report the inevitable lower pressures as an infringement. What a joke :fool:
Nurse - bring me my tablets!
The whole debacle did make me realise what a good driver Hamilton is. He gets a confusing and worrying message to drive faster and immediately puts in the two fastest laps of the race while on worn tyres. Wow!
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Oh seriously? They checked them on the grid before the parade lap? :confused: :confused:
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F1's reputation is in tatters. Changing the finishing order well after the race is over is a major part of that. Giving a win to Ferrari long after the race was over because of 3/10 of 1 pound per square inch on one tire would just about finish it off.
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Did I miss something?
Are they taking Hamilton's win away?
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No, but it was briefly a possibility.
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I think it should be Joe Bauer who gets the penalty, it appears he's the man who sanctioned the late on the grid pressure checks after tyre warmers were being removed - Pirelli had already passed all the contestants pressures as correct at the permitted maximum tyre blanket temps before the wheels were fitted to the cars. :swoon: Ergo no case to answer in the Stewards room. ::)
This is how Adam Cooper on Motorsport.com explains it:-
When Bauer did his extra checks, it was at a stage when Pirelli had already accepted the Mercedes tyres as "legal", while knowing that, with the blankets disconnected, the temperature and pressure could only drop.
So in effect it would seem that Bauer was wasting his time by measuring pressures in the last few minutes before the start, with the blankets disconnected.
Indeed, Pirelli confirmed to the Stewards that Mercedes had complied with its own requirements, vis a vis its blankets plugged-in measurements.
Once this became apparent the Stewards decided that, while there was an anomaly in the pressures recorded by the FIA, there was also a grey area in the procedures and timing of the measurements.
The Stewards also accepted that once the cars started moving, the tyres heated up again, and the pressures went up. Indeed, data from the cars showed that throughout the race the Mercedes tyres stayed well above the minimum requirement, and the FIA was satisfied by that.
Extracts from a longer post courtesy Adam Cooper, master.motorsport.com, Mon 7th Sept.
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I would have been happier had Hamilton not won, but he did earn it. It would be very disappointing to have that taken away.
I, as I am sure Lewis too, was wondering why they needed him to run the wheels off of the car with the lead he had over Vettel. There was discussion among Hobbs & Company about what the possible reasons were, but the tire pressure was not part of that.
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On Sky, Damon Hill and Martin Brundle had guessed that Mercedes must be trying to build up enough of a lead to counter a possible time penalty but I doubt anyone had thought about tyres.
In a normal commercial enterprise Mercedes could now be pursuing the FIA for compensation. They were wrongly forced to put additional stresses on a race engine. All a bit of a joke when you think that they have so many rules allegedly in the interest of reducing costs!