GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Cam on November 08, 2012, 04:04:47 AM
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Am I the only one surprised that more hasn't been made of certain words used by both Kimi and Vettel on the podium in Abu Dhabi? :DntKnw:
When Turkey can nearly lose the GP because they broke podium protocols I find it hard to beleive there aren't a few rules covering the drivers. I don't consider myself a prude but I found it innapropriate.
Somewhat related, there are stories floating around that teams are deliberately swearing during pit to car radio transmissions in order to avoid them being replayed on tv. Now that I do find amusing, although apparently the FIA is trying to figure out how to put a stop to it.
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Unfortunately, I find people using profanity in conversation with me every day, very casually. When Rappers, comedians, rockers, in fact entertainers of all types use it as normal discourse, it is here to stay. I know people who cannot seem to speak a sentence without the f-bomb. F1 needs only to say that you lose points when you use bad language on the podium and it will stop, but they won't do that. As far as radio, use profanity and lose your radio for the next race, but they won't do that either. :DntKnw:
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I'm pleased to say that I missed this and would make a complaint if it was possible as Ik has also sqaid I am no prude but it seems we now live in a culture where every other word is the F-bomb.
I do not use it in fact I rarely swear at all I find I can express myself quite well without it.
Maybe we should start a campaign to stop the use of profanities in public including F1.
I expect we would be told to F-off!!
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It seems to me, that in the name of expressing yourself, the media and the authority are passively encouraging such culture. And I am shocked that they have got away with this kind of behavior. They should maintain some code of conduct, at least in the podium and few areas. I don't care how and what are you saying that to your pit-crew or your boss in the radio, but I do mind when you use such languages in that position. If that makes me a prude, I am one, because I believe using profanities in public is not cool, and it makes you less of a man.
Mr. Vettel, keeps those words with your da da ding ding radio, not in the podium..
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I am also surprised that more wasn't made of it, I'm not a prude either, hell, I worked on the railway for 21yrs in a predominately all male environment so I'm used to all the swear words you can imagine, but on the podium it's a big no-no, the pit radio is time delayed so they can either edit it or not broadcast it. Seb and Kimi should be given a strict talking to and told it is not acceptable.
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Yeah it's totally unacceptable, especially as the sport is always trying to get kids and the family audience engaged.
The problem has arisen I think because of the dumb idea to put the drivers on the spot with interviews on the podium. Not only does it throw up stupid and long winded questions from people with little live media experience, it also leads to stupid answers at a time when the drivers are still on a high from the racing, the crowd's cheering, and the champagne spraying. Bring back the after race sit down, at least the change of scene to a more formal setting makes everyone realise they're on worldwide TV.
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I'll go along with that John, 100%.
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I think I mentioned it in chat, but Germans simply don't realize the F-bomb is any worse than darn, or bloody. They drop it casually, in mixed company. I've explained it to some and they are surprised to hear that to an English ear it's a pretty severe curse. Maybe someone at RBR has also now had this same conversation with Vettel, or maybe Coulthard himself had time to explain it after the podium. I had to explain it even to a friend of my 13yr old son, who used it more than a couple times while I was driving them home one day recently. He thought it wasn't really that bad a word. Probably tossed across the dinner table at his house.
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AutoWeek did do a piece on it:
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20121107/f1/121109865#ixzz2BdPj7Yox (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20121107/f1/121109865#ixzz2BdPj7Yox)
As for me, I agree with the author Caitlín R. Kiernan: “Language is a poor enough means of communication as it is. So we should use all the words we have.”
Or, as Lenny Bruce said when he was arrested for dropping the F-bomb on stage, "I just said it. I didn't do it!"
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DC apologised for the swearing, pointing out that neither driver is a native English speaker. When you learn your English in a competitive setting like motorsport, you're going to hear a lot of casual swearing, and it's hard to know how to translate that. Knowing that 'fudge' is fine, but 'f-ck' is bad seems a tad arbitrary.
Some of the worst swear words in Quebec would surprise you when translated to English, and you wouldn't see what the big deal is either.
I agree, getting the drivers who are still pumped with adrenaline from the race, and excited about celebrations isn't going to get their best, in terms of manners or thought. Let them sit down, cool off and compose their thoughts.
(However, I do believe that Kimi swore on purpose, as a way of demonstrating that pushing him 'to say a few more words' is a bad idea.)
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(However, I do believe that Kimi swore on purpose, as a way of demonstrating that pushing him 'to say a few more words' is a bad idea.)
:DD :DD :DD You could well be right, Jeri.
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I'm no prude either, in fact the F word is almost a part of everyday language in my part of the world, and believe it or not it can be used in a term of endearment!! However professional sportsmen being watched on TV worldwide by people of all ages and cultures should be more responsible with the words they use. It's Fu**ing ridiculous! :DD
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Looks like the FIA have issued a warning and any further incidents will lead to disciplinary action. Good call IMO.
Unbelievable that the Beeb got more complaints about the delay putting the rerun on iPlayer than about the swearing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20253052 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20253052)
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Finally FIA makes some sense.. Though I don't mind having a podium interview, it gives something for the spectators, which should not be bad...
But language is something that they should not meddle with, having the biggest number of TV viewership does come with some obligation, and all must abide by that..
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In Vettel's case, I think it was an accident. I think that Vettel worked harder in that race than I've ever seen from him. He came from way back in the pack, twice, made it to the podium and saved his points lead. He was, no doubt, exhausted and excited. And, as DC said, English is not Seb's first language.
Kimi, on the other hand, has a history of this. Remember the day that Schumi retired the first time, at Interlagos?
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I definitely do not condone swearing but surely this was always a risk of interviewing non-naturally English speaking drivers, high on adrenaline, live and immediately after the race.
Kimi's English vocabulary has more profainities than standard words and Vettel is just a !#*@ing idiot.
The drivers are professionals and should know better but I hope draconian penalties are not imposed because the likes of Kimi will just refuse to do interviews.
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In Vettel's case, I think it was an accident. I think that Vettel worked harder in that race than I've ever seen from him. He came from way back in the pack, twice, made it to the podium and saved his points lead. He was, no doubt, exhausted and excited. And, as DC said, English is not Seb's first language.
Kimi, on the other hand, has a history of this. Remember the day that Schumi retired the first time, at Interlagos?
Ok, first time I defended them, now I have to say Vettel has made it through plenty of other interviews without dropping the F-Bomb. He could well have been testing the water to see what he can get away with as he grabs hold of his 3rd WDC. Like Monty said, he's just an idiot. Kimi is more the one I would excuse, first of all because he may not have had the english vocabulary to come up with another noun for $hit (what should he have said, heck? hard time? trouble?), but Vettel's was after all just an adjective, and he could have just left it out if he couldn't have thought of a nicer one.
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Another way to stop it is if the broadcasters simply switch to a 7-10 second delay as soon as the race ends, so all the interviews can be edited by a beep button. Probably help if they are interviewing idiots like Lauda who regularly swears on the RTL broadcast, and he (was) an employee.
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Big deal, they swore on TV. Of course they shouldn't, but this is hardly a real story. Does anyone really think that this adversely affected anyone watching, really?? It'll only become an issue if it becomes the norm - I'm amazed how worked up people get, actually bothering to call in and complain. It's not as if anything was said in anger.
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There is such a thing as the watershed vintly, I don't expect to hear the F word on BBC at that time on a Sunday.
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There is such a thing as the watershed vintly, I don't expect to hear the F word on BBC at that time on a Sunday.
Fair enough, I just think that there's an awful lot worse said without swear words by politicians, adverts, footballers, etc etc. One profanity and you're a monster, but a ton of carefully worded lies and you're just 'working'.
Rant over!
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There is such a thing as the watershed vintly, I don't expect to hear the F word on BBC at that time on a Sunday.
Vintly heard it on Sky Ian, - makes all the difference. ;) :D :tease:
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Don't get me started on politicians or footballers vintly, they are worse than estate agents.
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There is such a thing as the watershed vintly, I don't expect to hear the F word on BBC at that time on a Sunday.
Fair enough, I just think that there's an awful lot worse said without swear words by politicians, adverts, footballers, etc etc. One profanity and you're a monster, but a ton of carefully worded lies and you're just 'working'.
Rant over!
:good: I do love a good rant!
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There is such a thing as the watershed vintly, I don't expect to hear the F word on BBC at that time on a Sunday.
Fair enough, I just think that there's an awful lot worse said without swear words by politicians, adverts, footballers, etc etc. One profanity and you're a monster, but a ton of carefully worded lies and you're just 'working'.
Rant over!
I have to agree with vintly and also the fact that these drivers are foreign. In many countries you routinenly hear these words on TV before 8pm or whatever the watershed is. Where I live I am far less concerned about the language my children might hear on TV, than the blood, gore and sex that seems to appear even on normal family channels in the afternoon.
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I quite dislike the interview process happening on the podium. I realize it lets the attending fans see and hear what is said but, as Jeri mentioned, it does not allow the drivers enough time to come down from the rush they have just been maintaining for the last two hours.
If the drivers had some time to come back down to earth, so to speak, they may be able to formulate better sentence structure and not flippantly use inappropriate language during the interview.
Kimi, being a man of few words as he is, would not be the best driver to ask to "say a few more words".
And his reaction was a combination of adrenaline and amusement.
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I'm pleased that the FIA is taking a line on this, because I think that it's just bad manners, and the drivers ought to be able to choose their words more carefully. I'm not overly offended, but I don't think that it is a particularly good advert for the sport, especially if children are watching.
As for the language argument, I also speak Spanish and Italian, and I know which words are swear words, and not to be used in a public setting. The excuse they are not native speakers doesn't cut any ice with me.
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The FIA line on this has been consistent since at least 2006 - swearing is to be avoided to the maximum extent possible on live TV, due to the offence and possible resulting switched-off/over TVs caused. The difference now is that there is likely to be a formal penalty/censure, as opposed to the tactic back then of quietly explaining the consequences of the action and waiting for the driver to make amends themselves. Maybe they decided that it was pointless to try asking Kimi Raikkonen to apologise for anything he says because he's not the type to think swearing should be a problem. After all, his definition of "bad language" is probably the sort of carefully worded lies - or "politician's polka" as I like to call it - vintly was talking about.
Personally, if I'd encountered that interview as a 7-year-old (and been able to hear it clearly - I listened to it on the day and couldn't hear anyone's reply over the crowd noise), I would probably not have become a F1 fan because the language would have offended me.
"Politicians' polka" was easier because they just sounded like they were confusing themselves and/or they seemed like they were undermining their own arguments. Neither could be considered offensive since most 7-year-olds confuse themselves or undermine their own arguments. The difference, of course, is that the 7-year-olds were/are doing it by accident.
They are not worried, as far as I can tell, about anything for non-live consumption, nor with interviews with TV stations before the race or after the post-race official press conference. Presumably this is because it is easier to opt in or out of those without losing the FIA's formal "core transmission", which is anything between 5 minutes before the formation lap and the end of the post-race conference.
I hate the podium interviews because the moment anything interesting is said, the crowd drowns out the people speaking. It seems particularly pointless given that the post-race press conference is already broadcast to the fans, and features many very similar questions.
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NASCAR has a similar problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlGXIWOioJI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlGXIWOioJI)
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Seems I'm always late to the party these days..I thought this summed up my own thoughts quite nicely.....
(http://i.imgur.com/DAO2j.jpg.jpg)
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Seems I'm always late to the party these days..I thought this summed up my own thoughts quite nicely.....
:DD :DD :DD :DD
I'm sure though that Mr Fry was aiming his bolt at adult pique. He is I suspect well aware childrens exposure to profanity needs treating a little more cautiously; isn't this the real and only objection to foul mouthed drivers.
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He is I suspect well aware children's exposure to profanity needs treating a little more cautiously
When I was a wee lad, I learned a lot of new words when Dad was working on our old Falcon sedan.
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And I learned plenty from my older brother. It doesn't matter if the TV is on or not, there is no way you can protect children from the bad bits.
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Another way to look at it is that F1 is touted as family entertainment, effing and jeffing has no place in family entertainment.
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My dad was a mechanic, a WW2 soldier, and a member of a number of boys clubs like Elks, VFW etc. Don't remember him saying anything worse than a very occasional Dammit. Nor were any of his friends potty mouths. My senior English teacher said profanity showed a poverty of imagination. It's not necessary, and the way these guys use it, doesn't really mean anything. But if it offends fans, it's bad for the sport. :stop:
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Agree with Lonny totally, profanity is lack of imagination, and just shows how gross that person be.. Making such foul words will never be cool for me, and person saying will always be regarded as a retard by myself..
In radio transmission, when you are handling a 200 mph beast, you could say what ever you want to, I don't mind at all.. But standing in the stage and speaking them in front of crowd and world media, I would certainly mind..
And for Mr. Fry, don't try to impose your irrational, childish behavior onto others..
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.. Making such foul words will never be cool for me, and person saying will always be regarded as a retard by myself..
In radio transmission, when you are handling a 200 mph beast, you could say what ever you want to, I don't mind at all..
You ever been in public office F1fanaticBD cause that's about the best example of speaking out the both sides of one's mouth I've read for a while. Just sayin'! :tease:
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.. Making such foul words will never be cool for me, and person saying will always be regarded as a retard by myself..
In radio transmission, when you are handling a 200 mph beast, you could say what ever you want to, I don't mind at all..
You ever been in public office F1fanaticBD cause that's about the best example of speaking out the both sides of one's mouth I've read for a while. Just sayin'! :tease:
Might be a possibility CD... ;)