GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Dare on August 26, 2007, 11:03:34 PM
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over heard on Honda team radio
Ruebens is told by pit that Button thinks he is
two seconds faster,to which Ruebens says
"don't make me laugh"
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Yes, I enjoyed that one too. I guess you have to retain a sense of humor if you're driving for Honda this year, however.
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Not sure if this was quoted in the race, but the BBC have Alonso quoted as saying:
"I remember the car I drove and the results they had in 2006 and now I brought to the team half a second, six-tenths, whatever, and I don't see anything giving me back. That's the only thing."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6964547.stm
How about 35 million dollars (or whatever your wage is) and a car destined to win the World Championship? Dear FA, this is what McLaren are paying you for!!!
BTW, the title should be "Quote of the race TURKEY" :)
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:yahoo: This guy is funny
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He's been going on about how the car has found half a second a lap since he joined.
Did he really expect them to go backwards? Besides, there are others in the team struggling to improve the car and they're not all on 35 million.
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David Hobbs had a bit of fun with that quote from Alonso, too. On the Speed TV coverage, he said that if Alonso brought six-tenths, Hamilton brought seven.
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Fernando seems to have a knack of saying things in a way that offends British ears. What he meant by that statement was that he was an important part of the team that has made the McLaren so competitive this year - and the implication is that not all drivers could have supplied that much input. In fact, it's the old complaint that he gives more input to the engineers than does Hamilton (thus negating what David Hobbs said) and yet receives no recognition for that.
I feel for Nando in his situation. He is feeling aggrieved that still McLaren refuse to favour either driver and is driven to point out the extra contributions that he makes that apparently go unrecognised. He would be better advised to accept that life is like that and just get on with the job but I can forgive him that he finds that impossible to do. It is in his nature (and perhaps a weakness) that he broods on things and then bursts out with protests against the unfairness of the world. But he still drives well.
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It is in his nature (and perhaps a weakness) that he broods on things and then bursts out with protests against the unfairness of the world. But he still drives well.
I agree, it's in his nature. I also agree that he drives bloody well.
Does he finally take the crown for Grand Prix Wingher from Mansell? :yahoo:
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IMO the quote of the race came from Kimi. When asked "why did he put in the fastest lap of the race just two laps from the end ?"
He answered
It was getting boring there, so its something to do.
WOW
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Yes, I read that too.
Brilliant. Ice cool Kimi at his best.
He was so much quicker than Massa yesterday, and made it a point of putting his money where his mouth is.
Shame cars aren't allowed to overtake in today's Formula 1. After all it is the pinnacle of motor racing, or so someone said.
Give me GP2 anyday for excitement.
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Who could ever dethrone Mansell from that title (GP Whinger of the Century)?
Kimi is getting flak for saying that - plenty of people reckon that he wasn't as quick as Massa on the day. For my money, he was but I guess we'll never know.
As for GP2, I find it amateurish. Most of the excitement stems from silly mistakes made by one driver that then allows another driver to pass. Maybe the quality of the drivers is less than in other years but I've watched the famous Timo Glock and thought him very ordinary indeed. At least F1 drivers don't fly off the road at every opportunity.
.oO(There, that ought to set the cat amongst the pigeons :D)
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I feel for Nando in his situation. He is feeling aggrieved that still McLaren refuse to favour either driver and is driven to point out the extra contributions that he makes that apparently go unrecognised.
Well, if his pay packet is 10 times that of LH then his contribution should be 10 times that as well, no? This is why they hired him, why they pay him so much. To bring that 6 thenths....
I just don't see what he's whinging about. He knew before he joined them that there would be driver parity - there always is at McLaren. So really he's just frustrated that he can't get a grip on LH.
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Alonso's comment made no sense to me either. For one thing, Alonso is being paid millions for his contribution (the only reason Hamilton is making millions is because of his bonus scheme), and he should have foreseen that he'd be making a big contribution and asked to be paid accordingly. Also, as Hamilton rightly pointed out, there are about 1000 employees at McLaren. If one of them starts taking excess credit, how does that make the other 999 feel?
Making this sort of comment is also counter-productive to correcting the perceived problem. McLaren, in common with most (all?) other teams, will not re-negotiate a contract mid-stream without an excellent reason. Comments that implicitly devalue the rest of the workforce do not constitute an excellent reason. Alonso should consider himself lucky he never drove for Prost - Jean Alesi got fined for making that sort of comment in 2001.
Yes, Alonso is important to McLaren this year - and he's being rewarded for it.
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Alonso is paid what Ron Dennis thought he was worth before the season began. And, if it's true that he brought an extra six tenths of a second (which people have said Renault are lacking thanks to Alonso's departure), then he's worth it - that amount of time is the difference between the front of the grid and the midfield.
Hamilton also is paid what Ron thought he was worth - the fact that he has proved worth more than that is irrelevant to any comparison with Alonso. The matter will no doubt be addressed next year and Hamilton will be able to move to the moon if he wants to, let alone Switzerland.
We already knew (from his comments about Renault last year) that Fernando is a whiner. But he still delivers in the races so I guess we can accept that, as so many accepted Michael Schumacher's handicapping of his team mates. Nobody's perfect (not even Hamilton).
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Is Alonso calculating his 0.6 up for Mc laren or down for Renault?
The 0.6 down at Renault is definately Alonso. I think we are all in agreement there. We saw it last year where he was on an average about 0.6 quicker than Fizi most of the time.
I'm not sure he'd be 0.6 quicker than Kimi on equal cars at Mc Laren. In fact I'll rephrase that. I'm absolutely sure he wouldn't be.
The whole Alonso Whinge syndrome centres around Lewis Hamilton. Nando signed with Macca when he reckoned Kimi wouldn't be there and he would have an easy time as undisputed TOP driver, getting everybody's full attention all the time. Indeed he would have done, but unfortunately for him, and to everybody's surprise, Macca suddenly found themselves with a number 2 driver who was at least as quick as Nando on most occasions. Whilst this was a cherry on the cake for Macca it was a sword in the side for Alonso.
There are some drivers that love the challenge of a quick team mate - Kimi springs to mind, and others that hate it - read MS and FA here. MS was clever enough to ensure that the No 2 at Ferrari was always going to be number 2. Nando never saw it coming so didn't bother, but even if he had done I can't see Macca ever change their ways for anyone, least of all Nando.
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To be fair to Alonso, he signed for McLaren long before anyone knew that Kimi was going. And so Fernando must have been prepared to be in the same team with the guy everyone reckons is the fastest of them all. I doubt very much that team mates were in Alonso's mind when he decided to jump ship from Renault to McLaren - it looked as though Renault might not continue in F1 and the best seat going at the time was with McLaren. Nando went for that option and only began to think about team mates afterwards.
Actually, I think Nando had also looked at Raikkonen and reckoned he could beat him. He had beaten the Shoe and Kimi had never really done much until he went to McLaren, plus Nando had beaten Kimi when the Finn had the better car; there was a strong possibility that Kimi was over-rated or at least so unlucky that he would not mount a strong enough challenge. In fact, the jury is still out on that one, considering Kimi's inability to put Massa firmly in his place at Ferrari (no, I still don't rate Massa). It is quite possible that Nando would have blown Kimi away had they both been in McLarens this year.
But that scenario never happened. Instead Alonso went to McLaren thinking his job would be really easy now that he was teamed with a rookie. Imagine the unpleasant surprise he had. Heck, that alone is enough to get a Spaniard whingeing. So yes, Hamilton is a large part of the frustration that Nando feels but it's not everything. I'm quite sure the guy feels the whole world is against him and wishes he had the Shoe's arrangement with McLaren.
But he has responded well to such challenges in the past. He may moan out of the cockpit but in the car he gets on with it. I am still convinced that he will be world champion again this year.
And, of course, even if he does that, McLaren still won't have a number one driver... ;)
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I've always reckoned on Kimi as World Champ this year, and I still do.
He gives off that air of confidence so lacking in either Massa or Nando.
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Is Alonso calculating his 0.6 up for Mc laren or down for Renault?
The 0.6 down at Renault is definately Alonso. I think we are all in agreement there. We saw it last year where he was on an average about 0.6 quicker than Fizi most of the time.
I'm not sure he'd be 0.6 quicker than Kimi on equal cars at Mc Laren. In fact I'll rephrase that. I'm absolutely sure he wouldn't be.
The whole Alonso Whinge syndrome centres around Lewis Hamilton. Nando signed with Macca when he reckoned Kimi wouldn't be there and he would have an easy time as undisputed TOP driver, getting everybody's full attention all the time. Indeed he would have done, but unfortunately for him, and to everybody's surprise, Macca suddenly found themselves with a number 2 driver who was at least as quick as Nando on most occasions. Whilst this was a cherry on the cake for Macca it was a sword in the side for Alonso.
There are some drivers that love the challenge of a quick team mate - Kimi springs to mind, and others that hate it - read MS and FA here. MS was clever enough to ensure that the No 2 at Ferrari was always going to be number 2. Nando never saw it coming so didn't bother, but even if he had done I can't see Macca ever change their ways for anyone, least of all Nando.
I disagree with a few things John.
1. Alonso was never scared of driving alongside Kimi and his joining Mclaren preceded
Kimi joining Ferrari. So Alonso was always prepared to drive against a top team mate.
MS is different story altogether.
I will concede that Alonso did not expect Lewis to make such an impact as he did and so did Ron Dennis. Hamilton was expected to stretch Alonso in Mclaren but no one expected that he would do so well. In that sense he is doing his job he was initially contracted to. This is not to say that Lewis does not have talent but rather that he being in his first season in F1 he wasn't expected to be leading the WDC by many people. Hamilton's success is a bonus for Mclaren which they are enjoying thoroughly.
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Any driver that complains about his 'lot' when he has a competitive car and is being paid millions, makes me sick!
Alonso was taken to McLaren because of his sponsors. There were at least six other drivers that could have been just as quick.
'I brought six tenths of a second' ....arogant idiot. The car was fast out of the box. It took Alonso several test sessions to catch up with the McLaren test driver.
If sponsors money wasn't so important to this sport McLaren would have fired Alonso at Hungary and brought in one of the other talented drivers in the paddock.
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Any driver that complains about his 'lot' when he has a competitive car and is being paid millions, makes me sick!
Alonso was taken to McLaren because of his sponsors. There were at least six other drivers that could have been just as quick.
'I brought six tenths of a second' ....arogant idiot. The car was fast out of the box. It took Alonso several test sessions to catch up with the McLaren test driver.
If sponsors money wasn't so important to this sport McLaren would have fired Alonso at Hungary and brought in one of the other talented drivers in the paddock.
Come on Monty. No reason to abuse. Alonso is a paid driver not a paying driver I suppose. With regards to six others, they haven't won two WDC titles and haven't beaten MS in a straight fight.
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I'm not being abusive. Alonso's statement was arogant and he is being an idiot by making statements like this to the press.
He clearly has talent. If he is as good as he thinks he is, he should concentrate on beating Hamilton on the track (not at press conferences). Better still he should be beating the Ferraris because if he brought sixth tenths of a second with him he would be so talented that he would be able to outdrive the car benefit Ferrari had in Turkey.
As you may have gathered it is the 'six tenths' that is bugging me. Nobody in F1 has so much driving and engineering expertise to bring sixth tenths to a top flight team. If it was that easy the combination of Newey and Coulthard would have Red Bulls winning every race.
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I agree that Alonso is being very silly too keep up his sniping campaign through the Spanish press - he should shut up and put up, yes. I'm just saying that I can understand why he feels aggrieved, not that I think he has any justification for it.
The six tenths is what's bugging everyone and I reckon it's come from that assertion in the Renault camp that Alonso gave them that much extra speed - Alonso is just using it to make his point.
But I'm interested in the six other drivers who would be just as quick. Which ones are they? Raikkonen, I guess, and some would say Massa. Hamilton obviously. Perhaps we could shove Nico in there but that's a matter of opinion. I would include Heidfeld but you probably wouldn't, Monty. Ralf has already said he's one but nobody seems to agree with him. It sounds as though you'd pick Coulthard as a contender but I think Webber has shown who is faster there - and I wouldn't put Mark in the same class as Alonso. So just who are we talking here?
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Now we are into pure opinion and speculation. I excluded Massa & Raikkonen only because they are already proving themselves at Ferrari. My less obvious six (in no particular order as all good reality shows would say) were:-
Heidfield, Rosberg, Kubica, Barichello, Button and, given time, Kovalinen.
This is a pointless exercise of course but I honestly think drivers with proven records like Button and Barichello could leave Alonso for dead in the right car. My reasoning is that their driving styles are are skilled and smooth plus they are clever thinkers. Alonso has explosive raw driving ability but he has made lots of mistakes and cannot control his feelings. That said, he is still a young man and if he gets a grip on his emotions he could become one of the all time greats.
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Speculation and opinion is more fun, Monty!
I find your suggestions very interesting and would not disagree with any of them. I think they are all very capable and only need a good car to give a good account of themselves. You have restored my faith in the old guard - thanks! :)
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If Alonso does'nt like it then he should walk, Ron has already said if a driver is not happy he will not stop him walking, but then it's just alonso whinging, he won't walk, not with mega bucks in his back pocket
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Now we are into pure opinion and speculation. I excluded Massa & Raikkonen only because they are already proving themselves at Ferrari. My less obvious six (in no particular order as all good reality shows would say) were:-
Heidfield, Rosberg, Kubica, Barichello, Button and, given time, Kovalinen.
This is a pointless exercise of course but I honestly think drivers with proven records like Button and Barichello could leave Alonso for dead in the right car. My reasoning is that their driving styles are are skilled and smooth plus they are clever thinkers. Alonso has explosive raw driving ability but he has made lots of mistakes and cannot control his feelings. That said, he is still a young man and if he gets a grip on his emotions he could become one of the all time greats.
OK Monty ! Barrichello had an as good a car as MS but he didn't do anything serious consistently.
Button's only claim to fame " The British Press" . If he was as good, he would have had a better driving option already.
Kubica is yet to prove anything beyond his talent.
Rosberg is close but I dont think he can "leave Alonso for Dead".
So what are we talking about. And do you think the most astute and succesful team in F1 would have signed Alonso so early on without evidence and proof ?
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Now this has been an interesting read. :good:
I must say, Monti's 6 are pretty much spot on from where I'm sitting. Is there place for Trulli there somewhere? I really rate the guy, perhaps not for consistency but for fairly regular quick laps.
Nando is bloody quick by anybody's standards, but if only he'd keep his mouth shut! He screws it all every time he whinges.
One thing I've noticed this season in particular. He's getting ruffled more easily. Remember him with Michael all over him at Imola - didn't bat an eyelid. And a couple of other places too. But look at him now with Hammy.
Strange he has been effected that way. He was so cool, once.
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Whilst I admit Alonso is quite a good driver, he is only cool lately when he is in front, as for fighting from back a bit in the grid, well, if it had'nt been for LH's blow-out he would'nt have been an undeserving 3rd. As for beating Michael in a straight fight, I would'nt consider him worthy to carry Michaels helmet.
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As far as saying Ruebens had as good a
car as MS and did'nt take advantage of it,
all I can say is"don't make me laugh"
Ruebens has said he was'nt allowed to
win and I have no reason to doubt him!
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I'm completely with dare on this one. I had the priviledge of meeting Rubens and several F1 engineers at a charity kart meeting. It was off-season, just after he had left Ferrari. I was probably the only non-F1 person in the group and his discussions with the other guys was so obviously a man relieved to have been given his b*lls back. It was obvious that MS was number one and everyone had to do what they were told. Rubens had to give Michael all of his telematry and details of settings but he wasn't allowed to know what Michael's settings were. If I understood correctly they were also talking about Michael having 'special' tyres that nobody else got. Even as the clear 'number 2' Rubens still competed closely to MS. I think Rubens and Jenson are real potential winners and I just hope Honda soon give them a car where they can start to compete. I honestly think they are both better and more complete drivers than Alonso.
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I agree about Jarno Trulli. I think he is under-rated and lacks only consistency and a good car.
I would like to see what Ant could do in a competivive car. He regularly set fastest lap as a Friday driver. He gets the max out of the SA and regularly out paces Taku.
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Mc laren team to give all Brits orgasms:
Hamilton and Davidson.
Dream on! :-[
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How about Hamilton and Paffett? If Alonso walked out suddenly, it could happen...
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Either way, quite a team.
It would probably be something novel too, Macca with 2 young drivers. Dare I call them novices. That would upset the establishment even more.
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Nah, for a British team you want Hamilton and Button, that would be good. :yahoo:
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I wanna see Mark Webber in a car that can ACTUALLY make a full race distance and still be competitive....with that, Mark would be championship material....he has that rare talent that allows him to get better performances from a car that probably shouldn't deliver.
Rom
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Then again, he's not my fav driver but DC's no slouch