GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: TheStig on October 21, 2008, 09:32:54 PM
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Lewis Hamilton may yet be robbed of a maiden Formula One world title by a mechanical failure.
With only the Brazil Grand Prix to come on Sunday week, Martin Whitmarsh, McLaren's chief executive, today admitted: "Our engines have generally been very reliable but you always worry because one slip and you can let a championship disappear."
Hamilton's team-mate, Heikki Kovalainen, suffered a blown engine in Japan two races ago and he was forced to retire from last weekend's Chinese Grand Prix with a hydraulic problem.
Adding to McLaren's concern is the F1 rule that engines must last for two races. Hamilton had a new engine in China, where he won in commanding fashion, and now he must use that same engine at Interlagos knowing it has already been subject to stress and strain.
By contrast, title rival Felipe Massa will have a fresh engine in his Ferrari and that could make him slightly more competitive.
Whitmarsh said: "It is very easy not to finish a Grand Prix. Things can go wrong. In terms of reliability issues there is, clearly, pressure."
TheStig
Sorry to hear the news of Big Dave....!
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/article-23575596-details/article.do?ito=newsnow (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/article-23575596-details/article.do?ito=newsnow)&
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Stig, I don't know how you keep finding pieces like this, but, it's great reading. I hope Lewis's engine blows in Q1.
My theory is he can win the world championship when he acts like a champion. Not that I can say Massa has any better claim, but Lewis and fathers ego's would be too much to handle if he wins (not that I really have any doubts that Lewis will win it).
Just my thoughts
Rom
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Nice to know the chief exec has total faith in the firms products, Lewis must feel so much better for the added pressure. :D
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Somebody has got it wrong.
According to Italian TV Hamilton can change his engine without incurring penalty as he has not used his "JOLLY" this season. In fact the Italian comentator said that both Maccas will be starting the Brazilian GP with fresh engines.
I never quite understood this "Jolly" rule whereby each driver is allowed to replace one engine without penalty. I know Kimi used his, and so have quite a few others.
Does anybody know any more ?
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I could be wrong on this, but I thought that teams couldn't use the "free" (Jolly or Joker) engine swap on the last race of the season. I recall some of us in the Grid Game joking about doing the same thing with the Double Up.
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As I understand the rule the joker engine cannot be used for the last race of the season. I thought it was odd they did not use the joker in Japan. That way Lewis would have had two new engines for the last three races instead of just one.
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As I understand the rule the joker engine cannot be used for the last race of the season. I thought it was odd they did not use the joker in Japan. That way Lewis would have had two new engines for the last three races instead of just one.
I don't think they expected a "nil points" in Japan so they may speculated that Brazil was the lowest priority race and Shanghai needed the extra few horsepower to get the job done. This was the best way to ensure a new engine in China.
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Oh great as if i wasnt gonna be nervous enough everyones doing their best to jinx Lewis talking about engine failure and various car problems. Lewis's Mclaren has been reliable all season and has had no problems with his engine wheather its done one race or two. So everyone stop making me worry and let me sit back and enjoy the race. THANKS
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Don't worry too much, greener. Lewis didn't seem to be taxing his engine very much last week-end. I think the racing scribes are just trying to stir things up a bit.
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Ferrari did Lewis a real favour in China. Massa couldn't threaten him and Ferrari called Kimi off early so Lewis could turn his engine down. Had I been running Ferrari and known that Lewis had to take the same engine to Brazil I would have had Kimi on his case until the last lap.
Against all logic Brazil is not that hard on engines. There is a long uphill flat out run from the last corner to the first but a couple of things work in favour of McLaren. First it is at altitude. Less dense air means they can't pump in as much fuel so the engine produces less power and is less strained. Secondly the humidity is high and that will cool the combustion a little. Add to that if it rains the engine will have even less stress on it and you can stop worrying about it.
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Martin Whitmarsh doesn't sound too worried.
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4373904,00.html (http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4373904,00.html)
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This is more like it some positive vibes for Lewis thanks Cos. I know alot of you are not Lewis fans but unless your a ferarri fan surely you dont want to see the mean red machine win again. Its time for a new champ and Lewis is your man.
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I'd like to see Lewis win because of the way he's been dumped on by the FIA and also for all the sniping from the other drivers, he's not a dangerous driver, it's all about the wanting to win, you don't win by saying........'you were there 1st so after you'.
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exactly mate Lewis drives to win theres none of this ill take 2nd or 3rd place he drives to win every race and you cant knock him for that
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I don't disagree that Lewis is a racer or that he is a good driver. I can't stand him because he has had everything handed to him on a silver platter, he is arrogant about others and the arrogance seems to run in the family. I say ditch daddy and get out on his own. Stop thinking race wins are his birthright and take them for what they are, an honour won through hard work of a team.
I hope someone takes his car out on the first lap. Go Massa (cos he's the only one who can stop Hamilton).
These of course are just my thoughts and I mean no offence.
Rom
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No offense taken mate u have the rite to ur views Lewis may have had a easyier ride than most but his talent cant be in question other wise u could stick anyone in a mclaren and ask for a championship
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It's interesting you prefer Massa when his father is at every race as well and is on camera at least as much as Anthony Hamilton. So is Button's. So is Webber's. But no-one cares about any of them despite the fact that they have been around the paddock for years before Anthony Hamilton showed up.
Lewis got everything handed to him on a plate because he delivers. Look at his junior record. It is far better than anyone else's on the grid. That includes everyone on the Red Bull program who got everything handed to them. Everyone on the Renault program who got everything handed to them. Everyone on the Toyota program who got everything handed to them. Piquet whose father not only handed everything to him but had teams set up in each formula so that he was guaranteed to have the best of everything. Rosberg whose father handed everything to him. The idea that somehow Lewis had everything handed to him on a plate while everyone else struggled is just wrong.
Unlike Piquet, Rosberg, Nakajima and co who got everything as a birth right Lewis had to deliver every year or lose McLaren backing. Imagine being 13 or 14 and having to deliver or lose out on McLaren. I couldn't have coped with that and I don't know many who could.
When he was given his chance in F1 he delivered to the point that he drove the reigning double world champion out the door. He deserves everything he gets because he delivers.
F1 history is littered with drivers who had an easy ride through the junior formulae and few of them deliver. Jan Magnussen went through Paul Stewart Racing's junior formulae teams and arrived in F1 with Stewart GP working with the same management and engineers. Most folk would think that was as easy an entry to F1 as possible but he didn't deliver.
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I didn't know that much history of the other drivers Steven thanks mate.
To qualify my opinion, yes other parents are there, but the media is hyping everything hamilton, the telecast all they talk about is hamilton and it's so annoying it drives me batty. Also being Australian we very much dislike the tall poppy syndrome. We like the underdogs here. I think the greatest thing would have been Kubica sneaking in and stealing the championship from under everyones noses.
So once again I say... choke Lewis, choke. (in the safest manner possible eg: mechanical failure)
Rom
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I Think I know what you mean Rom, I get annoyed myself with the TV coverage in Britain because James Allen, the rubbish commentator, assumes we all only watch to support Lewis, the coverage almost verges on Jingoism and all them others are out to get him.
I want to appreciate the whole race experience from the broadcaster covering the races and not a narrow national view. In most races the drivers putting on the best show are further down the field and they are performing beyond expectations.
Sure I want to see Lewis lift the WDC, he's got the natural driving talent for it and he will have scored the points like everyone else has to, but I can also cheer if Massa lifts it he will deserve it equally.
If Lewis does become WDC maybe he and the media can settle down a bit. Lewis seems so much in a hurry sometimes to conquer everything and this makes him look and sound arrogant & aggresive, but I seem to recall one Michael Schumacher had the same epithets thrown at him in the first few years.
It's a pity Kubica has left it as a straight 2 driver race in Brazil, it would have made for one helluva race with 3 possibles.
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The TV coverage bugs me as well. It bugged me when it was Button or Hill or Mansell but lets be sensible. Kubica as world champion would have been a joke. It simply shows that the points system introduced to stop Schumacher sewing up the title to early is wrong. Kubica has yet to win a straight race against all the other championship contenders. The only race he won was because Lewis took himself and Kimi out of it. How can you have a world champion who was not a serious threat to anyone at any point in the season. Kubica as world champion would have been farcical.
Lewis Hamilton is something very special and a lot of people are going to miss out on appreciating him because what some prat on the TV annoys them. Your TV has a volume control. Listen to someone else. THe web is full of streams of the race with commentary from anywhere in the world.
Lewis Hamilton is the best driver we have seen in a very long time. Don't miss out on something special because James Allen and the like don't have a ny quality control on what comes out of their mouths.
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Kubica has yet to win a straight race against all the other championship contenders. The only race he won was because Lewis took himself and Kimi out of it. How can you have a world champion who was not a serious threat to anyone at any point in the season. Kubica as world champion would have been farcical.
Plenty of champions in the past have won it because of mechanical failure, tyre failure or driver error from the better cars and drivers in the field. The championship is decided over the whole season and if a driver can take it with only one win then the opposition only have themselves to blame. Perhaps they may claim the stewards affected it but to me that is a luck of the draw thing the same as car failure or racing incidents.
The best driver, and I think you may be right that it's Lewis at the moment Steven, is not guaranteed the WDC by right he has to work for it like the rest. The old maxim, with a little tweak, still holds good:- First you must Finish, with the most points, to Finish First.
I personally would have applauded Kubica if he had won through, he and BMW have been the most consistant combination out there. Inconsistancy seems the one chink in the top 2 runners armour, or so everyone keeps saying, therefore to beat them both on that measure would still make a worthy WDC.
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Sorry Steven I'm not a big Hamilton fan either!
I just don't care for some of the remarks he's
made and I don't care for his father either.I've
never noticed Massa's dad being there,guess
I was paying too much attention to his mom.
I don't think Hamilton forced Alonso out the
doors single handed,I believe Dennis helped a
little too.Like it or not Alonso is a very talented
2 time World Champion who did beat Ferrari and
the FIA and given the right car and support would
more than likely do it again
Like Rom these are only my views
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CRAZY AUSSIE RANT FOLLOWS
I'm sorry but this bind faith that Lewis is already a 'great' driver is ridiculous. (in my opinion). He is very talented (only a fool would deny that), he is very quick, but he is nowhere near a great driver. Great drivers have their faults for sure, but, they are drivers who can put their ego aside and think of a big picture, not just "look at me, I'm on the top step of the podium instead of the second step". I'm not saying that a great driver doesn't want to win, but they can look at a season and championship rather than just a race.
In my short time (by comparison to many of you) watching and following F1 there are several drivers I class as greats because of their ability to do what is required for a season (and at times) a race result. Among these names are (in no particular order), Reubens Barrichello (past it now), Michael Schuey (yeah can't remember how to spell his surname), Fernando Alonso (much as I hate to admit it), Mark Webber (makes gold from rubbish), Kimi Raikkonen (blisteringly quick, if he keeps his attention span long enough), David Coulthard (past it now too). And these are drivers from the past 7 years. I would also consider Mikka Hakkinen great too.
Lewis will get my respect by handling some more difficult situations with more grace and losing the chip on his shoulder that drives him to do stupid things on track all in the name of being able to say "look at me daddy, I'm so great I won again".
I don't hate him, I'm certainly no fan (and will probably never be), but I think there is still too much hype and blind devotion to a kid that has yet to prove he is mature enough to be in the pinacle of motorsport.
And for those who think I am being unduely tough on Lewis, my example of a driver that has developed and matured into the sport well is young Sebastian Vettel. Now that young man has all the makings of a great driver in the future.
As always these are just my opinions and thoughts... and of course I could be completely wrong. I am somewhat passionate about this subject though. LOL.
All thoughts and theories are welcome.
Thank you for reading a crazy mans meandering rant.
Rom
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Always good to hear from you, mate. If we weren't passionate about F1, we wouldn't still be here through all of the FIA nonsense.
I like Hamilton, but I wouldn't call him "great" just yet. He still has much to prove. I would put Vettel and Kubica in that category, too. The three of them will be something to watch over the next several seasons. I think each of them has championship potential. If Bernie, Max and Co. don't destroy the sport, we could be on the verge of a new golden age.
I take many of Hamilton's mistakes with a grain of salt. Remember, this is only his second season. Even Shumi made some stupid, banzai moves his first few seasons. Just ask Damon Hill or Jacques Villeneuve.
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Schumey, banzai, surely not Cos.
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Regardless of Ron Dennis or anyone else it was Lewis's performances that caused all the problems for Alonso. Alonso is a great driver. I have no problem with that. Lewis as a rookie lead him in the championship for most of the season therefore he is a great driver. Think of everything Lewis put up with last year. He had to go in against the guy who was the best driver in the sport. He had a team that was being torn apart by politics and he drove fabulously right up until the last two races.
This season he has made Kovi look really bad to the point that some people are questioning whether Kovi shoul even be an F1 driver.
I can't see the arrogance that other people see in Lewis. I keep reading about how he is all ego and nothing else. The guy has won championships in every car class he has raced in. Sometimes it took a second season but that is not unusual. His junior record is extraordinary so it is not surprising that he is confident in his ability.
While everyone is entitled to a view I think it is wrong to say I have blind faith in him. My faith in his ability is based purely on what I have seen and what I have read. It is all based on fact.
Vettel and Kubica may turn out to be serious rivals but until they are regularly competing for wins and subjected to the pressures Lewis has lived with since he first sat in an F1 car we won't know how good they are. Vettel is beating Bourdais in a car he is far from comfortable in. That is a long way from being a world championship challeger.
There is a saying in racing that you are all familiar with. You have to beat your team mate. In the 2006 F3 Euroseries Vettel finished second in the championship. His team mate won it. The team mate was Paul di Resta who had his first GP2 and F1 tests in the last month. If Vettel is a serious threat to Lewis how good is di Resta?
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I'm not sure Hamilton is making Kovalainen look
bad or maybe he's not the driver Dennis thought he was.
I'll give you Hamilton has the potential to be a
great driver but I don't think he showed Alonso up
quite as much as you seem to think.
Let me pose a question at you.Do you think
Alonso would have lost the driving championship
if he had a 17 point lead with 2 races left?
That said if Mclaren had a number one driver in the past
I believe Kimi would have had 1 WDC maybe 2 while
he was at Mclaren,and either Alonso or Hamilton would
have likely won last year.Your thoughts on that?
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I agree, this equal number 1s is simply impossible. Just look at BMW. Early in the year the car was well suited to Kubica's more aggressive style. BMW spent a lot of resources developing the car to help Heidfeld. Now Robert can't seem to find the pace he had before. You need to back one driver and let the other guy cope, and that was Alonso's real problem: he felt that Mac was spending too much time and resources on an unproven rookie instead of backing a 2 time WDC. I kind of agree with that. That is what rankles me about Lewis, he came into one of the best teams in F1 and immediately got equal support as a 2 time WDC. He hasn't paid his dues, lets shove him in a Honda for a season or 2 and see how well he goes. :D
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P.S. When they were young and racing for Mercedes, Heinz-Harald Frentzen was nearly always faster than Michael. I don't think you can compare driver's results in other formula with how they will do in F1.
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He hasn't paid his dues, lets shove him in a Honda for a season or 2 and see how well he goes. :D
Yeah we are up for that, just imagine the look on Alonso's and Ferrari's faces when he passes them in a Honda. :DD :DD :DD
Anyway next year in the era of wind up rubber band motors (KERS to you) Honda may suprise us all. 8)
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Let me pose a question at you.Do you think
Alonso would have lost the driving championship
if he had a 17 point lead with 2 races left?
Probably not. But could Alonso as a rookie have gained a 17 point lead on a reigning double world champion team mate with equal equipment and all the hullabloo that was going on? Absolutely not.
It is fine to say that McLaren should have backed Alonso at the start of the season. Surely by half way by that logic they should have backed Lewis as clear number oe since he had lead the championship for a while by then.
I really don't understand what wasting two years of his life in a Honda would prove.
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That's why I don't think Alonso will go
to Honda either.With Renault he won 2
races[one with the aid od a sc]
Why would he risk a wasted year at Honda
with their recent history.That said Honda
will probably be the sleeper team next year
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Why would he risk a wasted year at Honda
with their recent history.That said Honda
will probably be the sleeper team next year
Well that will make a change from the Asleep team of the last 2 years. :'(
The word is Honda have got a bigger rubber band on their KERS than anyone else so roll on 2009. :yahoo:
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Just to carry on being awkward I think it is a bad sign that Honda are talking so much about KERS for next season. I hope it is just distraction for their sake. KERS is going to be a minor feature in determining car performance. Honda would be far better forgetting completely about KERS and concentrating on producing a good chassis with good aero and updating their engine when the engine sorbet becomes slushy.
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You are undoubtably right Steven that a 2009 car will need more than good KERS, but I think Honda see potential in KERS for road car applications. They already have hybrid vehicles that can benefit from KERS, as do Toyota of course, so they are probably throwing extra factory resources at the problem, hence the song and dance over the subject.
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I'll give you Hamilton has the potential to be a
great driver but I don't think he showed Alonso up
quite as much as you seem to think.
Let me pose a question at you.Do you think
Alonso would have lost the driving championship
if he had a 17 point lead with 2 races left?
Looks like your man Fischicella agrees with you Dare.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081027094710.shtml (http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081027094710.shtml)
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The thing I don't get about KERS is why anyone would put it on a car with an internal combustion engine even a hybrid. I would love to get Max and co and take them to a car that had just finished a journey and ask them to put their hands on the brake discs/rotors and feel how hot they are. Then put their hands on the exhaust manifold or engine block.
Max made a statement along the lines that he thought it inconceivable that anyone would introduce a new car in five years time that did not recover heat from the brakes. To me that simply shows how stupid he is and a lot of senior car company execs are.
An internal combustion engine produces so much heat that it is surrounded by a water jacket connected by hoses to a radiator which vents heat to atmosphere. Regardless of the type of journey at all times every internal combustion engine is pumping vast amounts of heat to atmosphere.
Brakes and by definition KERS only operate sporadically and on certain journeys. For the last year I have regularly taken a route that comprises 40 minutes on country roads and through towns whee there is some brake use then 3 hours on a motoway where my engine is pumping out all that heat but the brakes are hardly touched and at the end of the journey there is 3 or 4 minutes where the brakes get some use. What is the point in me hauling a KERS device for three hours at motorway speeds when it is going to result in me producing more CO2?
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No point at all Steven.
We are talking about the racing world here and not you popping down the shop in your nippy Clio.
Kers only comes into itself in the Racing World,and i have just posted a topic on it in the Forum
TheStig