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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: J.Clark on September 11, 2014, 03:02:57 PM

Title: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: J.Clark on September 11, 2014, 03:02:57 PM
Singapore is a fantastic circuit, enhanced by the fact that it is run after sundown.  The colors are fantastic under the lights!

It is a relatively new circuit and anything but traditional, or a typical Tilke design.  It is a street circuit in the true sense, as is Monaco, driven on daily with local traffic, unlike Canada and Australia for example which are basically parks and while driven upon, are not subject to the city traffic wear and tear.

It is a race I hope to be able to attend one day.  It is very expensive for just about anyone who doesn't live in Singapore, and the getting there is probably the least of the expense, as hotels and etc are all high dollar deals.

Six years ago, it saw its first Grand Prix.  There was great controversy because Massa had the race fairly well in hand when at a critical point in time, Piquet was directed to crash lightly and bring out a safety car, allowing Alonso to pit and make huge gains, assuming the lead from well back in the field.  Renault suffered greatly, but was not punished during the race and Alonso ended up winning it.  Massa's race was completely ruined by a bungled pit stop when he was told to go by the green light while the fuel hose was still attached to the car . . .

Former winners of this event are: Alonso (2), Hamilton, Vettel (3).  Of the the three, I think most would agree that the only one with a real chance of a repeat is Lewis.  Talk is that the Red Bull should do better at this circuit, but I doubt that Mercedes, Williams and Ferrari will make it easy for Red Bull.
The record for a lap of the 5km circuit in Singapore is held by Vettel at 1:48.574 and was set last year (2013) so it could conceivably fall to someone else this year.

There is a factor that will likely be talked about during the pre-race program, if not throughout the weekend.  It seems that the FIA are going to be monitoring closely the radio communications between drivers regarding car and/or driver performance.  I gleaned this from another source. 
Whiting, who has acted on a regulation that states drivers "must drive the car alone and unaided", made teams aware of the clampdown in a Technical Directive issued ahead of next weekend's Singapore Grand Prix.
     "In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 20.1 of the F1 Sporting Regulations is respected at all times we intend to rigorously enforce this regulation with immediate effect. Therefore no radio conversation from pit to driver may include any information that is related to the performance of the car or driver," Whiting explained.
     To deter teams from attempting to find a way around the issue, Whiting added: "We should also remind you that data transmission from pit to car is specifically prohibited by Article 8.5.2 of the F1 Technical Regulations."

Does this mean that they will not be able to communicate that a driver behind is closing a gap and that their driver needs to pick up the pace a bit, or that there seems to be a problem with something on the car that requires the short-shift, change brake setting to save them and other things such as that?

As for the cars and drivers expected performance, I can't see anyone other than Williams challenging the Mercs, and perhaps coming off of a podium finish Massa will be able to muster the "whatever it takes" to beat Bottas again at the front.  I hesitate to rule out Ferrari, at least Alonso's car, nor Ricciardo, whom I predict should again beat Vettel.

Behind those mentioned, I imagine both McLarens will be fighting with the second Red Bull, both Force India cars.

There will no doubt be some interesting fighting all race long in groups of four and five cars throughout the field.  There are two DRS zones and the one from turn 5 thru 7 is quite long.

All in all, it should be a great race to watch, as have so many this season.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Scott on September 11, 2014, 04:37:25 PM
Loving it as usual J. Clark.

I think you nailed the finish order...unless some unknown mechanical gremlin or a nasty wall jumps out at one of them, they should settle in just about how you have predicted.

The stupid, stupid, stupid FIA clarification of the regulation that in its spirit probably did NOT mean pit to driver radio instructions, will be an interesting one to watch hear.  I am strongly against this, and think it will simply lead to codes that the FIA won't be able to figure out.  The driver needs as much info as possible, and like you say, where are the FIA going to draw the line? 

I would love it if there was a reliable website that would post transcripts of pit to car radio.  F1 Fanatic sporadically has it, but I'm not sure even that is complete.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: John S on September 12, 2014, 09:46:05 AM

I've a suspicion that Macca are throwing major upgrades at this race, so we may see them moving a bit further forward. 
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: cosworth151 on September 12, 2014, 12:30:00 PM
The circuit has always reminded me of the old IMSA circuit in downtown Columbus back in the 80's. The loss of the "Singapore Sling" was a major downgrade. The gimmick of running the track under the grandstand was considered as part of a modification to the course at Indy back about 2005.

Hopefully, this will be the first and last race with the stone age radio restriction.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: J.Clark on September 16, 2014, 02:38:30 PM
For clarification, here are some of what will and will not be allowed in radio/pit board communications to the driver:
Permitted messages:
*Acknowledgement that a driver message has been heard.
*Lap or sector time detail.
*Lap time detail of a competitor.
*Gaps to a competitor during a practice session or race.
*"Push hard", "push now", "you will be racing xx" or similar.
*Helping with warning of traffic during a practice session or race.
*Giving the gaps between cars in qualifying so as to better position the car for a clear lap.
*Puncture warning.
*Tyre choice at the next pit stop.
*Number of laps a competitor has done on a set of tyres during a race.
*Tyre specification of a competitor.
*Indication of a potential problem with a competitor's car during a race.
*Information concerning a competitors likely race strategy.
*Yellow flags, blue flags, Safety Car deployment or other cautions.


Prohibited messages:
*Sector time detail of a competitor and where a competitor is faster or slower.
*Adjustment of power unit settings.
*Adjustment of power unit setting to de-rate the systems.
*Adjustment of gearbox settings.
*Learning of gears of the gearbox (will only be enforced from the Japanese Grand Prix onwards).
*Balancing the SOC [state-of-charge of batteries] or adjusting for performance.
*Information on fuel flow settings (except if requested to do so by race control).
*Information on level of fuel saving needed.
*Information on tyre pressures or temperatures (will only be enforced from the Japanese Grand Prix onwards).
*Information on differential settings.
*Start maps related to clutch position, for race start and pit stops.
*Information on clutch maps or settings, e.g. bite point.
*Burn-outs prior to race starts.
*Information on brake balance or BBW (brake-by-wire) settings.
*Warning on brake wear or temperatures (will only be enforced from the Japanese Grand Prix onwards).
*Selection of driver default settings (other than in the case of a clearly identified problem with the car).
*Answering a direct question from a driver, e.g. "Am I using the right torque map"?
*Any message that appears to be coded.

In addition, on a separate matter, it is looking like the race could be a wet one.  If this is how it plays out, I would raise the question of visibility under the intense, artificial lighting, and the probable glare it may cause.  I would think this is a significant concern.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Scott on September 16, 2014, 05:02:37 PM
Wonder what penalties there are for breaking the radio rules.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Monty on September 19, 2014, 01:05:12 PM
 :(  Missed FP1 - had to work! It's just not fair. :'(

I was surprised to see Alonso on top! He must be getting everything and more out of the Ferrari to be in front of the Mercedes.
I also read that Hamilton was asking for data on the radio. I thought he was claiming he wouldn't miss the radio talk?
Vettel's Friday engine has blown. It surely won't be long before he has to use a sixth engine and take the penalty.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: cosworth151 on September 19, 2014, 01:42:54 PM
Do the radio restrictions apply to Free Practice sessions? That would be hugely counter-productive.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Scott on September 19, 2014, 04:59:24 PM
Alonso just behind Hamilton in FP2.  Ricciardo showing well and then Kimi in 4th.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: John S on September 19, 2014, 10:09:40 PM
:(  Missed FP1 - had to work! It's just not fair. :'(

I also read that Hamilton was asking for data on the radio. I thought he was claiming he wouldn't miss the radio talk?


I missed both practice sessions as well,  :(  but I have Sky F1 so now catching up with both.  :yahoo:

Lewis was asking for the fastest sector times over the radio in FP1, - can't see how giving the fastest times in a sector  can be on the banned data list?  :confused: 

But heigh-ho, it's all a learning curve.  ::)
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Irisado on September 19, 2014, 10:20:26 PM
I watched the short BBC highlight packages on the website.  I was surprised to see Alonso in the top spot in the morning, but Ferrari usually flatter to deceive on a Friday.  I expect a better performance than they offered at Monza though.  The closest challenge to Mercedes is likely to come from Red Bull at this track though.  Ricciardo looks handy.

Maldonado crashed again....  I really have to wonder whether Lotus have made the right decision regarding resigning him.  I know about the money, but he's just ordinary, unless the car is really fast, and even then he's inconsistent.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Scott on September 19, 2014, 10:23:44 PM
Lewis was asking for the fastest sector times over the radio in FP1, - can't see how giving the fastest times in a sector  can be on the banned data list?  :confused: 

I think they can tell him what HIS sector times are, but not anyone else's or where he is relative to anyone else.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: J.Clark on September 19, 2014, 10:53:53 PM
End of the day FFP-2 time sheet:
1.  Hamilton    Mercedes   1m 47.490s
2.  Alonso        Ferrari    1m 47.623s
3.  Ricciardo    Red Bull   1m 47.790s
4.  Raikkonen    Ferrari    1m 48.031s
5.  Vettel       Red Bull   1m 48.041s
6.  Magnussen    McLaren   1m 48.358s
7.  Button        McLaren   1m 48.435s
8.  Perez        Force India   1m 48.653s
9.  Hulkenberg       Force India   1m 48.751s
10. Kvyat        Toro Rosso   1m 48.770s
11. Vergne        Toro Rosso   1m 48.800s
12. Grosjean        Lotus    1m 49.062s
13. Rosberg       Mercedes   1m 49.075s
14. Maldonado       Lotus    1m 49.139s
15. Sutil       Sauber    1m 49.170s
16. Gutierrez     Sauber    1m 49.290s
17. Massa     Williams   1m 49.361s
18. Bottas     Williams   1m 49.971s
19. Bianchi     Marussia  1m 50.612s
20. Chilton     Marussia   1m 51.558s
21. Kobayashi     Caterham   1m 52.075s
22. Ericsson    Caterham   1m 52.936s

Williams are either sand-bagging, or they are in serious trouble here.   :DntKnw:

Maldonado - unsurprisingly wrecks - (bet he could take back his wish to get out of Williams). 

Ferrari looking very racy and Kimi right up there in the top five.   :yahoo:

Vettel has more problems and I think an engine change.  Is he over the limit on engines?

I can't believe Nico whining about Maldonado's crash messing up his flying lap.  When it happened, there was a lot of time left on the clock for him to put in a respectable lap had he chose to do so, but he would appear happier whining and languishing almost two seconds off the pace of his teammate.  |-(

One more practice, in which the gloves should come off, and then qualifying.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: John S on September 19, 2014, 11:54:48 PM

I'm thinking Williams are in trouble, unless of course they can find something overnight. Here's some comments from Valtteri & Massa on Crash.net website:-

Both Felipe Massa and Valtteri Bottas were left surprised by their pace in FP2 after struggling to improve significantly on the supersoft tyre

“There were no real problems really, just some issues with the balance,” Bottas said. “The car didn't feel very good from the beginning and the whole day we struggled a bit, especially with the rear end of the car. I think the main thing for us that we need to work on is to get more lap time from the option against the prime because we only improved half a second and other teams improved 1.5 or 2 seconds so there is plenty of work to do.”

“It's a really difficult night for us,” Massa said. “We couldn't find the right balance, the right grip, especially on the rear of the car. So there is a lot that we need to do to improve the car for tomorrow. For sure we expect better than how it was today so I hope we find the problem otherwise it will be a very difficult weekend."
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Scott on September 20, 2014, 11:06:20 AM
Yikes...sounds like it.  Hope they figure it out before the race.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: J.Clark on September 20, 2014, 12:06:53 PM
Something of a change in the pecking order in Saturday practice.

Alonso on top.
Ricciardo still beating Vettel, but in P2.
Rosberg on top of Hamilton, but Lewis supposedly had a lock-up on his hot lap.  :'(
Williams (with Massa on top of the duo) seem to have sorted something out overnight.

Qualifying next, this could get very exciting.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Ian on September 20, 2014, 04:14:44 PM
Williams done better today.

Massa 6th
Bottas 8th
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Ian on September 20, 2014, 04:32:09 PM
Loved it at the end of quali.

Radio....Nico, Lewis beat you by 7000ths of a second

Nico....DAMMIT
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: f1bettings on September 20, 2014, 09:15:18 PM
The night race is my fave of the year and hopefully it will be competitive. The perfect scenario for F1 fans would be Ricciardo 1st and Hamilton 2nd making the title race even more interesting and the more competitive ones in the past few years.

The radio ban rules are just plain stupid.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: J.Clark on September 21, 2014, 02:01:18 AM
Here is the grid:
1.  Hamilton    Mercedes   1m 45.681s
2.  Rosberg       Mercedes   1m 45.688s
3.  Ricciardo    Red Bull   1m 45.854s
4.  Vettel        Red Bull   1m 45.902s
5.  Alonso        Ferrari    1m 45.907s
6.  Massa        Williams   1m 46.000s
7.  Raikkonen    Ferrari    1m 46.170s
8.  Bottas        Williams   1m 46.187s
9.  Magnussen    McLaren   1m 46.250s
10. Kvyat        Toro Rosso   1m 47.362s
11. Button        McLaren   1m 46.943s
12. Vergne        Toro Rosso   1m 46.989s
13. Hulkenberg    Force India   1m 47.308s
14. Gutierrez    Sauber    1m 47.333s
15. Perez        Force India   1m 47.575s
16. Grosjean    Lotus    1m 47.812s
17. Sutil       Sauber    1m 48.324s
18. Maldonado    Lotus    1m 49.063s
19. Bianchi        Marussia   1m 49.440s
20. Kobayashi    Caterham   1m 50.405s
21. Chilton        Marussia   1m 50.473s
22. Ericsson    Caterham   1m 52.287s

It is obvious that Hamilton's surprise about the competitiveness of Red-Bull, Ferrari and Williams.  Williams in particular who were looking Friday night like they could take the car and go home, thus saving the wear and tear.

Lewis also was seen locking up the left front at turn one on his lap that just nudged Nico off the pole.  I guess it could have been more than .007.

Good to see Ricciardo beating Vettel again - Massa ahead of Bottas again - Mags ahead of Button . . .

I just looked at the times in all three sessions of qualifying and if one compares times of all cars in all three, the top 15 cars are capable of times within one second of Hamilton's pole time.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Dare on September 21, 2014, 04:56:49 PM
Hero's and zero's

Hamilton-perfect race...when the sc figured to make it
              close at the end Lewis pulled away

Vettel-about as good as he's been this year

Danny R-even finishing behind Vettel can't wipe that
              smile off his face.
               
Alonso-is the car getting better or is it Ferd?

safety crew-cleaning up debris with Pastor circling the track

Zero's

Mercedes-for what happened to Nico.hope this isn't
               a pattern

Kimi-I really expected a better race out of the iceman

Singapore track-doesn't  really give us a good race does it.
                        Monaco without the class

Eddie-Please make this is last time on the podium show-please


Should have included Perez,Massa,and Button in my hero's
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Scott on September 21, 2014, 08:36:15 PM
I'll add to that:

Hero

VJ...in just who's craziest dreams has there been the possibility of Force India finishing ahead of Mclaren - I suppose his yacht is a rocking' party tonight.

Zero

Ron...oh, the board will not be happy about this.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Willy on September 21, 2014, 08:46:01 PM
I can't agree that it was a great race in a fantastic location.

It is a hugely boring race on a boring street circuit with zero elevation change unlike Monaco or it's excitement. It is only a Bernie mandated night race so UK viewers can watch during the day.
It reminds me very much of Valencia and that was horrible and I was not sad to the ass end of that nag track.
Yes there are lots of pretty lights and fireworks at the end.. SO what?
 
Another huge waste of energy for no real reason in a time when energy consumption should be looked at as we continue to screw up the planet with the coal fired electrical plants that are ruining our air.  Great move Bernie.....oh wait......you'll be dead soon so you don't care.

And yes, I know this is harsh but maybe that's what is required so these idiots will make the changes that are required and coming whether you like it or not.

Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Scott on September 21, 2014, 08:56:41 PM
Did anyone say a great race?  I don't think so.  Pretty ho-hum as F1 races go.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Dare on September 21, 2014, 09:54:13 PM
Did anyone say a great race?  I don't think so.  Pretty ho-hum as F1 races go.

In laymans term....the race sucked....big time!
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: J.Clark on September 21, 2014, 10:49:18 PM
It was a snoozer, as usual, at this circuit.  At least the cars look nice in the lighting.   :lazy:

Great job by Hamilton.  Rosberg (wiring loom problem) may have made things more interesting had he not suffered a car failure.
Vettel looks closer to old self, but Daniel was there to pounce if he made a mistake.
Alonso drove the wheels off of the Ferrari, again.
Massa also looking stronger again.

Five retirements says something when none were due to an accident.


Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Jericoke on September 22, 2014, 02:05:17 AM
Sounds like I picked a good race to miss.

I do like seeing the cars under the lights though.
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Monty on September 22, 2014, 10:13:26 AM
if you could edit your own highlights show you would include the build-up to the start, the start, the restart after the safety car and the last 15 laps and you would have something fairly interesting to watch!
Agree with most of the comments here. Felt really sorry for Jenson. He drove a great race and I believed him when he said they still had something left for the end. What is happening to McLaren? They had one car die and the other one was frying its driver!
Title: Re: Singapore Airlines Singapore GP 2014
Post by: Irisado on October 03, 2014, 03:55:40 PM
Apart from Jean Eric Vergne's charge through the field this was really dull.  At least there was a bit of action at the end though.  Nobody even hit the wall this year to make things interesting.  What a snorefest :(.

About the only other newsworthy thing to come out of the race, aside from McLaren still not being to overtake Force India in the constructors' championship, was Ericsson beating both Marussias!  Bianchi was hampered by overheating brakes though.
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