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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: J.Clark on May 22, 2016, 05:09:36 PM

Title: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 22, 2016, 05:09:36 PM
Monaco, perhaps because of the rich (wealthy) society who occupy it, has been a prestigious jewel in the Formula 1 Crown of Champions.  It may very well be the most prized win a driver can claim.  Racing on the streets of the Principality has been going on since 1929; although, Formula 1 didn't exactly exist then.

Since F1 truly took form in 1950, it wasn't actually a F1 Championship race in 1949, but that race ended up being cancelled due to the death of Prince Louis II.

Actual race footage of Monaco was used in the making of Grand Prix, an iconic film about Formula 1 made back in the mid-1960s.  Technically speaking the movie was great and there have been documentaries about the making of it.  The movie feature Monaco's race and if you haven't seen it, shame on you.  You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_(1966_film)

It has elevation change, some very high speeds for street racing, and 19 turns, all of which have cool names attached.  It has changed little over its long history.  Its current length is 2.1 miles, more or less.  The most wins by a constructor is 15 and goes to McLaren; although, I think they are an unlikely choice to win this year's race.  The most wins by a driver goes to Senna with 6.
On the current grid, the previous winners are:
Rosberg (3), Alonso (2), Vettel, Button, Hamilton, and Raikkonen.
The lap record of 1:14.439 was set by Schumacher in a Ferrari in 2004 after they dropped the number of turns down to the current 19.  In comparison, Hamilton's pole lap last year was 1:15.098, still a good half a second back.  With the aero advances and ultra-soft tire, that lap record may well be in jeopardy this year.


The 2015 race saw a nearly certain Merc 1-2 messed up by Vettel getting his Ferrari in the middle of them.  It was largely, again if my memory hasn't fallen off, due to tires and Hamilton pitting due to indecision between him and team.  I think it may even have been that it cost him the race, but I'm not sure.

Here is a nice clip from YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxmkmCNnGc

This will be the first race we get to see the Ultra-soft tires.  Looking at what teams have selected from the offerings of Soft, Super-soft and Ultra-soft compounds, the new tire looks a clear winner's choice.
Several team are taking on one set of Softs.  Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull are only taking 2 sets of Super-soft.  The majority of sets for all teams is clearly the new Ultra.  How will it wear, and how many pit stops will be made.  Tire strategy is looking like it will perhaps really be in play at Monaco.

There have been many controversies over the years.
Rain created a race in which, if memory serves, only six cars finished.
Montoya rear-ended Michael in the tunnel taking him out of the race.
Michael blocked qualifying efforts as time ran down by stopping on track at la Rascasse.
Rosberg did more or less the same thing at Mirabeau.
There have been accidents at the Grand Hotel Hairpin which many still argue over the blame and purpose.
Spectacular crashes at Sainte Devote.
Alonso and I can't recall which Ferrari or perhaps Red Bull when a race was stopped and tires changed . . .

Monaco has traditionally produced some fairly high drama, in spite of it being very difficult to overtake on track, with only one truly good place for it, that being the Nouvelle Chicane, and if a driver gets it just a tad wrong, it is usually a disaster.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Dare on May 22, 2016, 05:17:56 PM
Despite the no passing usually making it a dull race
it's one of my favorites.One big change was the chicane
where Bandini had his fiery accident.

The Monaco racing scenes in Grand Prix have to be
the very best racing scenes ever captured on the screen.
Watch Monaco on a dvd with zoom and it puts you in
the car.I love Monaco
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 22, 2016, 06:41:01 PM
The worst mod to the track was the building of the swimming pool as it eliminated the Rascasse as a possible spot to overtake. It was here that Rindt won the last race for the Lotus 49. In the closing laps of 1970 he chased down Brabham, setting a fast lap quicker than pole time. Brabham tried an ill advised pass of a backmarker on the last lap at the Rascasse and crashed into the Armco letting Rindt through for the win.

In keeping with the picture I posted, here's a bit of video from 1962:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AavB1Od95aI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AavB1Od95aI)
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: F1fanaticBD on May 22, 2016, 07:55:01 PM
It may be the party zone of the rich, but track layout is one of the most exciting, incredible, intoxicating, invitation to indulgence that only few other tracks can hope to match. Just playing simulation video games gives you a certain thrill, I wonder how does a driver feel when he actually picks up the checker flag?
Semi-automatic gearbox has made life a lot easier, because it is expected one has to make over a thousand gear changes during the period of racing in this track. Take away the parties, take away the royalty, and I am pretty sure Monaco still will be as beautiful as it is now, because it brings out the sheer pleasure in a driver for being a racer.

Special thanks to J.Clark for doing the pieces for the start of a grand prix. :good:
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Scott on May 22, 2016, 08:50:19 PM
I'm hoping for bad weather here so I can watch undisturbed this Sunday (plus we're close enough that sometimes we have the same weather, which would mean it might be raining there too  ;) ).  One of my favourite parts of watching the Monaco race is the in-car views.  To drive at those speeds within an inch or two of the walls or armco is fantastic to watch.  Gives a bit of credence to those of us who say an experienced F1 driver knows exactly where each corner of his car is at all times. 

 :yahoo: :yahoo:
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: F1fanaticBD on May 22, 2016, 09:44:30 PM
Can't resist to share
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ueBOKLl1LWE
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Scott on May 23, 2016, 08:04:17 AM
 :good: :good: :DD

I noticed Bernie doesn't know how a seatbelt works
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 23, 2016, 11:20:00 AM
Thanks F1fanatic.  I like doing it, but sometimes I just can't find the time to make it as good as I would like it to be.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: cosworth151 on May 23, 2016, 02:06:40 PM
Thanks for the pre-race report, J Clark. You always do a fine, insightful job.  :good:

A couple more recent incidents: When Montoya clouted Schumi in the tunnel, he did it behind the Safety Car. (Really!) Button had a major shunt at the Nouvelle Chicane in 2003. His BAR-Honda spun,squarely hitting the barrier between the course & the run off area sideways. Fortunately, he was uninjured.

Until the early 2000's, there wasn't enough room for all of the garages at the circuit. some teams had to work from grarages in the hills overlooking the circuit, driving or towing the cars down & back every day.

Here is a newsreel of the 1929 race. Notice how little most of the circuit has changed. The only real changes have been between Tobacconist and the current Start-Finish line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seqYJ9azUbw

Don't forget: In Monaco, Friday comes on Thursday! That is, the usual Friday schedule of FP1 & 2 is held on Thursday. This is due to Friday being market day.

In 1961, Sterling Moss gave fans an unusual insight into the workings of an F1 car. The side panel fell off his Rob Walker entered Lotus 18, exposing the inside of the cockpit.

Here are pix of Button's car after the 2003 shunt & Moss showing how it works.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 25, 2016, 02:09:47 PM
I found this on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghyr2iG-its

Not everyone knows about this movie apparently.  I was talking with a friend a few days ago, who is old enough to have seen it, but who said he had never even heard of it.

I told him to look on YouTube, because a lot of old movies are there in  their entirety, frame by frame.  I noticed this is one of them.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: cosworth151 on May 25, 2016, 03:00:12 PM
One of the best movies ever! It was originally released in "Cinerama," on a wide, curved screen. There was almost no in-car footage back then, so it was absolutely mind-blowing.

The DVD is worth getting as it has several extras about the making of the film, F1 in the 1960's and Brands Hatch.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 26, 2016, 11:33:21 AM
Remember - Friday's schedule is run on Thursday in Monaco.

First Free Practice results:
1. Hamilton   Mercedes   1m 15.537
2. Rosberg      Mercedes   1m 15.638
3. Vettel      Ferrari   1m 15.956
4. Ricciardo      Red Bull   1m 16.308
5. Verstappen    Red Bull   1m 16.371
6. Kvyat      Toro Rosso   1m 16.426
7.Hulkenberg   Force India   1m 16.560
8. Perez      Force India   1m 16.697
9. Raikkonen      Ferrari   1m 16.912
10. Sainz    Toro Rosso   1m 17.130
11. Bottas      Williams   1m 17.562
12. Grosjean      Haas   1m 17.599
13. Alonso      McLaren   1m 17.838
14. Gutierrez      Haas   1m 17.909
15. Button      McLaren   1m 17.920
16. Nasr      Sauber   1m 18.187
17. Magnussen      Renault   1m 18.274
18. Ericsson      Sauber   1m 18.301
19. Massa      Williams   1m 18.746
20. Palmer      Renault   1m 18.871
21. Haryanto      Manor   1m 20.528
22. Wehrlein      Manor   1m 20.868
 
The top five are about where one would expect, but after those, not so much.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: cosworth151 on May 26, 2016, 12:11:55 PM
There are a couple of changes on tap for this week-end. First, drivers will no longer be allowed to throw visor tear-offs out of the car. The reason for this is that there have been incidents of the tear-offs becoming lodged in brake ducts. alonso has twice been knocked out of races due to this. I think it's a wise idea. I do question introducing it at Monaco, do to the already high driver work load during the race.

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/129985-silly-visor-tear-off-ban-arrives-for-monaco

Renault will debut it's new spec engine this week-end, in both Renault and TAG Heuer incarnations. Renault and RBR will each the new unit for one car only. K-Mag & Danny Ric will get the upgrade this weekend. The change over will be complete for Montreal.

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/129973-ricciardo-selected-for-latest-renault-engine
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: cosworth151 on May 26, 2016, 01:17:21 PM
There was an incident in FP1 that could have been much, much worse. Roseburg's Merc sucked a 20 pound drain cover up out of its mounting. Button, who was following Nico, struck the iron casting, destroying the right front of his McLaren. As David Hobbs pointed out on NBCsn, the flying drain cover could just as easily struck Jenson himself.

Charlie Whiting inspected the site. All such drains & manhole covers are supposed to be tack welded down.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/26/hamilton-heads-shortened-session-button-strikes-drain-cover/
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 26, 2016, 03:00:15 PM
Free Practice 2:
1.  Ricciardo   Red Bull   1m 14.607
2.  Hamilton   Mercedes   1m 15.213
3.  Rosberg      Mercedes   1m 15.506
4.  Verstappen    Red Bull   1m 15.571
5.  Kvyat      Toro Rosso   1m 15.815
6.  Sainz       Toro Rosso   1m 15.981
7.  Raikkonen   Ferrari   1m 16.040
8.  Perez      Force India   1m 16.120
9.  Vettel      Ferrari   1m 16.269
10. Button      McLaren   1m 16.325
11. Hulkenberg      Force India   1m 16.487
12. Alonso      McLaren   1m 16.723
13. Gutierrez      Haas   1m 16.782
14. Bottas      Williams   1m 16.849
15. Grosjean      Haas   1m 16.874
16. Massa      Williams   1m 17.286
17. Magnussen      Renault   1m 17.530
18. Ericsson      Sauber   1m 17.562
19. Palmer      Renault   1m 17.761
20. Nasr      Sauber   1m 17.999
21. Haryanto      Manor   1m 18.647
22. Wehrlein      Manor   1m 18.814

A few interesting notes:
Ricciardo making the most of the engine up-grade  :yahoo:
Ferrari struggling, especially Vettel crashing (twice I think).
Williams appear to have taken one giant step backward.
The two Renault factory cars are virtually neck-and-neck, in spite of Mags having the upgraded engine.

Tire degradation seems to be a none-issue for the new ultra-softs and Mercedes is saying they believe they can run half the race distance on them.  That is very surprising.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: cosworth151 on May 26, 2016, 04:18:25 PM
Quote
Ferrari struggling, especially Vettel crashing (twice I think).

I think the second one was on his out lap from having the first one repaired.

Cars on the Ultrasoft (Purple) tires seem to be having trouble with the rear end sliding out on them today.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Irisado on May 26, 2016, 11:45:20 PM
Second practice produced some surprising results.  I still expect Mercedes to lock out the front row, but after that Red Bull look to have put Ferrari on the back foot.  Those will be the three teams at the top.  After that, it looks too close to call with Toro Rosso, Force India, and probably Williams (despite their poor practice times) vying for the other top ten places.  McLaren's pace was a bit disappointing.  I thought that they would be faster at this track.

Regarding some comments in the opening post, the wet race in 1996 saw seven cars classified, but only three still running.  The 1966 dry race over 100 laps and some 2.5 hours in time saw only four cars classified (the lowest in F1 history), but there were only 16 starters compared to 21 (Montermini's Forti was a non-starter after a crash in the 15 minute acclimatisation session before the race started, otherwise there would have been 22 cars on the grid) in the 1996 race, so it had a higher attrition rate.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 27, 2016, 03:13:20 AM
Massa crashed at Ste Devote - his nemesis corner if ever there was one - in Free Practice 1.  Williams spent a lot of time working on low speed aeros, but it is not paying off in a noticeable way.  He and Bottas both struggled a lot today, especially with the rear stepping out on them.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: cosworth151 on May 27, 2016, 12:03:11 PM
I wonder if we might see some lower downforce front wings in FP3. It would give better balance and help with the rear grip situation.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 27, 2016, 05:40:42 PM
Teams are always reluctant to remove aero. More likely they will try to increase rear down force.
 :fool:
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: cosworth151 on May 27, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
I wonder about that on a high speed, low downforce circuit like Monza. Increased downforce would mean increased drag.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 28, 2016, 01:21:11 AM
A friend emailed this clip link to me. 

I can't remember what year it was, but this is one of the weirdest things to happen at Monaco.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uln3upSncVM
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Scott on May 28, 2016, 10:18:17 AM
Wow...lucky the car dropped on the track and not on someone's head!
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 28, 2016, 11:47:06 AM
FP3 - Saturday:
1.  Vettel      Ferrari   1m 14.650
2.  Hamilton   Mercedes   1m 14.668
3.  Rosberg      Mercedes   1m 14.772
4.  Ricciardo   Red Bull   1m 14.807
5.  Verstappen    Red Bull   1m 15.081
6.  Kvyat      Toro Rosso   1m 15.259
7.  Sainz Jr      Toro Rosso   1m 15.324
8.  Perez      Force India   1m 15.368
9.  Raikkonen      Ferrari   1m 15.555
10. Hulkenberg      Force India   1m 15.666
11.  Massa      Williams   1m 16.068
12. Alonso      McLaren   1m 16.257
13. Button      McLaren   1m 16.298
14. Bottas      Williams   1m 16.347
15. Gutierrez      Haas   1m 16.406
16. Magnussen      Renault   1m 16.412
17. Grosjean      Haas   1m 16.527
18. Nasr      Sauber   1m 16.867
19. Ericsson      Sauber   1m 17.038
20. Palmer      Renault   1m 17.482
21. Wehrlein      Manor   1m 17.595
22. Haryanto      Manor   1m 18.180

Ferrari of Seb looking much better today, with Kimi nearly a full second off his pace (?).
A little surprised to see neither Williams, and neither McLaren in the top ten.
Haas is really missing something here compared to previous circuits.

Qualifying about an hour away.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 28, 2016, 03:21:26 PM
Having been quick all weekend, Ricciardo takes pole away from Mercs, and Hamilton visibly upset  :'(

1.  Ricciardo      Red Bull   1m 13.622
2.  Rosberg      Mercedes   1m 13.791
3.  Hamilton      Mercedes   1m 13.942
4.  Vettel      Ferrari   1m 14.552
5.  Hulkenberg      Force India   1m 14.726
6.  Raikkonen      Ferrari   1m 14.732 (will start P-11 for gear box issue)
7.  Sainz Jr      Toro Rosso   1m 14.749
8.  Perez      Force India   1m 14.902
9.  Kvyat      Toro Rosso   1m 15.273
10. Alonso      McLaren   1m 15.363  :good:

11. Bottas      Williams   1m 15.273
12. Gutierrez      Haas   1m 15.293
13. Button      McLaren   1m 15.352
14. Massa      Williams   1m 15.385
15. Grosjean      Haas   1m 15.571
16. Magnussen      Renault   1m 16.058 (may be penalized)
17. Ericsson      Sauber   1m 16.299
18. Palmer      Renault   1m 16.586
19. Haryanto      Manor   1m 17.295
20. Wehrlein      Manor   1m 17.452
21. Verstappen    Red Bull   1m 22.467   :sick:
22. Nasr      Sauber   no time Q1  Kablammmmo :-[

What may end up in the "all for nothing" category if it rains, which is a better than 50/50 chance, but Ricciardo gets to start the race on the super-softs instead of the ultras the rest of the field up front are on since his Q2 time was set on them.

Sad to see Williams so far back, but as Matchett indicated, they should be well up the ranks in Montreal; although, for this race, they don't have anywhere near the downforce required.

I'll put a dollar up against a donut that Hamilton and Rosberg don't come together at Ste Devote  :DD  T'would be quite interesting however, if they did.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Scott on May 28, 2016, 06:06:45 PM
Wow...I know I said Verstappen would DNF, but I thought it would be in the race, not Q.  Totally driver error.  A few laps later Rosberg showed how to kiss the same wall and survive.

Though I didn't pick him, I'm pleased Ricciardo is in front.  Better to be in front of the Merc's than avoiding their broken bits from Vettel's position.

If Monaco is on the same weather system as we are this evening, there will be heavy rain.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 29, 2016, 04:32:01 PM
Well Scott, you didn't know it when making the prediction, but it appears that Q1 was a practice attempt at making your prediction come true.   :o

Man oh man, did Red Bull screw Ricciardo, or what?

It was an interesting race, all in all.  Starting behind the Safety Car, a few Virtual Safety Cars . . .
Kvyat is out of control!   This race is certainly not how to get his RBR seat back, in spite of Verstappen's mistakes this weekend.
Kimi, Kimi, Kimi, what were you thinking?
Haas cars did about as good as could be expected I think.
Poor Nico  :'(
Vettel ran a pretty good race.
Hulk had a great race, but Perez  :good: :good: :good:
McLaren had a great showing as a team with both cars finishing in the points.
Williams Massa drove a good smart race and managed to get a point.   Gutierrez too had a pretty good race, but sadly no points for him or Haas.
Erricson and Nazr . . . stupid move >:D
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Scott on May 29, 2016, 06:55:48 PM
No kidding.  I thought he might have a good crash once this weekend, but 3?  For a while I was pleased it was making Marko look like a bonehead, until Kvyat pulled a Kvyat. 

Sauber fallout will be interesting and hopefully public.  Who was that finger pointing at Nasr after he got out of the car? 

I thought Kimi just understeered into the wall to break his wing (common error in wet weather), but to try to continue and leave debris through a blind sweeping tunnel is certainly worth a warning or those driver point thingies.  Ferrari chiefs will be furious that their expensive driver in their very expensive car can't overtake a Mexican pay driver in an Indian car, though to be honest Vettel had no chance to get by.

Perez drove a stellar, though quiet race.

Rosberg was way off pace - I think he's a bit nervous at Monaco.

RBR...to be honest, I haven't gone to any other site to try to figure out what the heck happened.  Radio miscommunication?  I almost hope that is the answer, because any other would be unacceptable.  Hamilton running through a chicane and not having to cede position was just icing on the cake.  I would be just as furious as Daniel was this weekend.  It was his race and the officials and his own team had it out for him.  What is the guy supposed to do to be able to win.  I loved his comment on the wind down lap "Save it guys" or something like that...i.e. don't utter a word.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Dare on May 29, 2016, 09:36:39 PM
Yeah Scott two weeks in a row RB has cost Daniel
two wins.His interviews are becoming more and more
critical of the powers to be at RB.He's become my # 1
pick to try and move to Ferrari in 17.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 29, 2016, 09:42:55 PM
I would say "Driver-of-the-Race" has to go to Perez, just since I think I failed to mention him previously.

Ricciardo's stop - 13.6 - standing still time.
Post race with the commentators: Matchett, "You always have a set of tires ready to go on the car when it comes in, whether you were told it was coming or not."
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: cosworth151 on May 29, 2016, 09:47:22 PM
A mistake like that is unthinkable from a team of RBR's caliber. It makes me wonder if there is more going on with the team than we know ablut.

I think Nasr is past his sell-by date. But as we were saying in the Chat Room, how do you fire a pay driver?

Kvyat is probably heading for the off-ramp, too. Or, they could could give him Danny Ric's pit crew as punishment.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Dare on May 29, 2016, 11:44:48 PM
I think Nasr is past his sell-by date. But as we were saying in the Chat Room, how do you fire a pay driver?



Just find another pay driver,there's plenty out there
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Scott on May 30, 2016, 08:49:03 AM
I think Nasr is past his sell-by date. But as we were saying in the Chat Room, how do you fire a pay driver?
I'm sure there are clauses that allow it if the right circumstances are met. 
I would say "Driver-of-the-Race" has to go to Perez, just since I think I failed to mention him previously.

Ricciardo's stop - 13.6 - standing still time.
Post race with the commentators: Matchett, "You always have a set of tires ready to go on the car when it comes in, whether you were told it was coming or not."


Horner said the crew had anticipated softs, but someone called for reds at the last minute and because of Monaco's pit layout where the pit 'wall' is on top of the garage, they couldn't see in the garage to confirm what tires were waiting.  The SS were somewhere in the back of the garage.

That's a seriously weak excuse.  At the level they are at, there simply is NO excuse to not have every compound available within a couple seconds.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 30, 2016, 12:06:17 PM


I would say "Driver-of-the-Race" has to go to Perez, just since I think I failed to mention him previously.
Horner said the crew had anticipated softs, but someone called for reds at the last minute and because of Monaco's pit layout where the pit 'wall' is on top of the garage, they couldn't see in the garage to confirm what tires were waiting.  The SS were somewhere in the back of the garage.

That's a seriously weak excuse.  At the level they are at, there simply is NO excuse to not have every compound available within a couple seconds.
[/quote]I read that article.  He also said, to his credit, that was no excuse.  They threw the race in the crapper and all but pulled the handle.  Ricciardo should have been 10 seconds ahead of Hamilton when he emerged from the pit out.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Scott on May 30, 2016, 01:05:11 PM
I completely missed the bit where he said they will take the necessary steps to ensure it only happens to Max from now on  ;) :D
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 30, 2016, 05:10:56 PM
Yeah, and Hobbs had spent some time talking about how R/B was preparing for a stop. One of the NBC guys mentioned that Merc radioed Rosberg to ease up as his brakes were overheating. Whether that was true or was code for let Lewis by, who knows?
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 30, 2016, 05:41:02 PM
It may have been code for letting Lewis pass, but I don't think it was supposed to extend the courtesy to the other four who followed.

I am not sure, but did the Hulk actually get bye Nico at the finish line?
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: J.Clark on May 31, 2016, 02:20:03 PM
Heads should roll over this.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/video/2016/5/_Where's_the_tyres___-_Relive_Red_Bull's_pit_stop_nightmare.html

My heart goes out to Ricciardo over the sham of his pit crew not being ready when he was "called" in.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Jericoke on May 31, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
Heads should roll over this.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/video/2016/5/_Where's_the_tyres___-_Relive_Red_Bull's_pit_stop_nightmare.html

My heart goes out to Ricciardo over the sham of his pit crew not being ready when he was "called" in.

You can't fire everyone every time they make a mistake, it will paralyze anyone from making a decision.

Certainly if a team member makes multiple mistakes (Kvyat), then it's time to make a move, but one isolated botched call isn't enough to tear the pit team apart.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Alianora La Canta on June 04, 2016, 12:06:54 AM
Just find another pay driver,there's plenty out there

This only works if the current pay-drivers cannot outbid them. If I had the power, I'd bench one or both of them, simply to let them cool down. As it stands... ...is Pastor Maldonado still available (at least none of the things he hit were his team-mate)?
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: cosworth151 on June 04, 2016, 02:17:17 AM
Funny you should mention that. I just read this:

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/pastor-maldonado-looking-restart-f1-career
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: John S on June 05, 2016, 03:56:27 PM


Horner said the crew had anticipated softs, but someone called for reds at the last minute and because of Monaco's pit layout where the pit 'wall' is on top of the garage, they couldn't see in the garage to confirm what tires were waiting.  The SS were somewhere in the back of the garage.

That's a seriously weak excuse.  At the level they are at, there simply is NO excuse to not have every compound available within a couple seconds.

Always tricky in the pits at Monaco, not enough space to keep everything to hand. Seems Danny Ric must have called the late change to SS tyres on his in lap, :DntKnw:    if it had been the strategy group at MK they should be taken out the back and shot as going to SS made no sense at all given Danny's track position. :nono:     
That RBR car is not the kindest chassis to tyres after all. 

Merc strategy was spot on and whoever called it deserves a pay rise as they usually go too cautious.

Can't say I've read anything about a real problem with Rosberg's car so I guess we, and the team, have more ammunition to show why they pay Lewis much more than Nico. Can't think Rosberg management's job has got any easier to get more pay on a renewed contract. :D 

Yeah I'd go with Perez as the driver of the day, he just pips Lewis as he did it with a car that belongs in maybe 6th or 7th rather than the 3rd he achieved.

Good points for McLaren too, shows what WDCs can do in 3rd class machinery. :D         

 
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Scott on June 05, 2016, 07:36:47 PM
I've read a couple of stories about the incident and both said the pit wall made the late change to the planned compound they decided to use.  Not sure where you got the idea that DR called for those tires John.  :DntKnw: :DntKnw: :DntKnw:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2016/05/29/monaco-grand-prix-screwed-daniel-ricciardo-lets-rip-at-red-bull/
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: John S on June 05, 2016, 10:38:41 PM
I've read a couple of stories about the incident and both said the pit wall made the late change to the planned compound they decided to use.  Not sure where you got the idea that DR called for those tires John.  :DntKnw: :DntKnw: :DntKnw:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2016/05/29/monaco-grand-prix-screwed-daniel-ricciardo-lets-rip-at-red-bull/

It would seem you are probably right Scott, I've just found this quote from Danny Ric on the podium at Monaco:-

   "I don't even want to comment on the race, to be honest. From the outside we put on a show, but it shouldn't have been that exciting to be honest. FOr two weekends straight we've been screwed. I didn't make the call; I was called into the box. They should've been ready. It hurts. It hurts, to be honest."  

However someone changed the choice from softs to supersofts after the call to pit was already called on the radio, now who was that and why??? 

Mostly the teams defer to the drivers in changeable conditions, especially when they are as experienced as Ricciardo, are we saying Danny had no input into the tyre choices they were taking on the day??? - If so I find it just a little implausible, after all the crew on the ground in the pitlane will have known that supersofts were not immediately accessible. :confused:   

note though that Danny only talks about the call, could mean just the pit in call as he acknowledges - or perhaps ??????  :DntKnw:   
So just who if not the driver on track called for different tyres that are not on hand for a car due for service in the next 20 seconds or so????????????  :DntKnw:   
Flaming incomprehensible ain't it. :confused:           
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Scott on June 06, 2016, 09:00:55 AM
Wow, thanks for the 'probably'

Let's dispense with the conspiracy theories John.  I included the link so you could see Horner's comments - "Christian Horner, the Red Bull team principal, said the problem came because the compound of tyres the pitwall asked for were right at the back of the garage. It was an unusual error for a team usually so efficient in their management of the race". 

No doubt there was discussion between the driver and pit wall as to tires, but he freely admits the team's fault for the chosen tires not being ready.
Title: Re: Monaco - since 1929
Post by: Irisado on June 11, 2016, 10:58:38 AM
My enjoyment of the race was frustrated by the highlights package.  Channel 4, like the BBC, try their best with them, but, for the European races, they don't have enough time, and have to chop too many laps out.  It really spoils things.

The first half of the race was very exciting as Ricciardo built up that massive lead before Rosberg let Hamilton by and battle commenced.  I think that Mercedes did pull off a great strategy for Hamilton, but even so Ricciardo would have still won had Red Bull not messed up so badly.  That's twice Ricciardo has lost through bad strategy or mistakes by the team, so no wonder he is frustrated.

Scott, you were spot on about Verstappen this weekend, congratulations to you :).  He was fast, but I think he was trying too hard and paid the price.  He wasn't the only one.  There were a lot of driver errors during the race, not least from both Sauber drivers, neither of whom covered themselves in glory for a team which cannot afford inter-team collisions.

Pérez was superb and I was delighted he held off Vettel for the final podium spot, and Alonso did very well to hold on to fifth and finish ahead of Rosberg, whose lack of pace was odd.  Even more strange was the fact that he couldn't hold off Hulkenburg on the last lap.

Hamilton made a massive inroad into Rosberg's lead as a result of the latter's rather lacklustre race.  The championship is most definitely back in the balance now.
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