GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Dare on May 12, 2020, 02:36:46 AM
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/vettel-leave-ferrari-end-media-000655665.html
Can't see Hamilton there. He'd want number one
status and Charles is the future
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Good luck to Seb in whatever he does next. I don't know how the replacing is going to work. There may be some opportunism from Ferrari involved.
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never liked Vettel but I actually feel sorry for him - I think Ferrari have treated him badly ever since Leclerc arrived. I would like to see Ricciardo go to Ferrari but he definitely will not be a number two to Leclerc (the job will not be officially described as number 2 but that's what it will be). I think Sainz is the most likely replacement and perhaps Sainz and Vettel will be a straight swap?
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IMHO it's more about the lower money teams will now have in their pot to pay drivers salaries, this Covid-19 situation could force big changes.
I believe Vettel was trying for a 2 years or more deal and all that they would offer is a one year, and possibly an option dependant on results, at equal pay to Leclerc - a big pay drop for Seb.
We may see more disappointed drivers in this years pay negotiations round. I see Lewis having difficulty maintaining his enormous wages for future years.
My thinking is that Ferrari may well try to persuade the veteran Sergio Perez to see out his career in red, after all he racks up the points even if he's not always a king in quali. I'm sure both he and his backers would love him in a Ferrari and would be happy to add big dollars to the sponsorship pot. Charles would probably love the thought of a Michael/Rubens type partnership. ;)
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Ferrari has never been a friendly place for drivers. I've always had a soft spot for Seb. I hope he finds a good seat.
And I hope DannyRic gets the Ferrari seat! :yahoo:
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never liked Vettel but I actually feel sorry for him - I think Ferrari have treated him badly ever since Leclerc arrived. I would like to see Ricciardo go to Ferrari but he definitely will not be a number two to Leclerc (the job will not be officially described as number 2 but that's what it will be). I think Sainz is the most likely replacement and perhaps Sainz and Vettel will be a straight swap?
Ferrari has always been team before driver. They've been very famous for that. When Vettel refused to pull over for LeClerc, like a good teammate, that was the end of the relationship.
I know that F1 is very cutthroat (see Hamilton vs Rosberg), so I don't blame Vettel for trying to win at all costs, but I don't feel sorry for him. He took a gamble, and it failed.
I don't envy anyone coming in to replace Vettel though. They lucked out in LeClerc being a second year driver who can handle the pressure at Ferrari, but bringing in another inexperienced driver would be a big risk. However, being a veteran driver who will basically have to take second place to LeClerc? That's going to be tough to swallow. Who has the skills to bring Ferrari a championship, but the ego to be #2? (Assuming Kimi isn't part of the equation)
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Who has the skills to bring Ferrari a championship, but the ego to be #2?
I was just reading this and then you read my mind:
Assuming Kimi isn't part of the equation
I think Kimi wouldn't mind being number 2 at Ferrari, even to Leclerc. He's relaxed enough and wise enough to know his F1 days are coming to an end. But ending them in a Ferrari is surely better than doing so in an Alfa... I think it would be great. He might even get another win out of it.
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Can't see Hamilton there. He'd want number one
status
Where does that come from Dare?
I have never read anything from anybody be it drivers or any team member that LH has required No 1 status it's my understanding that he wants to beat everyone on equal terms.
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Can't see Hamilton there. He'd want number one
status
Where does that come from Dare?
I have never read anything from anybody be it drivers or any team member that LH has required No 1 status it's my understanding that he wants to beat everyone on equal terms.
Because he's number one in the World. Why would
he want anything different. Seems like Rosberg and him
had a few issues
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He sure is https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-news-sebastian-vettel-to-leave-ferrari-at-the-end-of-2020-f1-season.KBuBQw6AsUvOhB6p7IU9c.html
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Can't see Hamilton there. He'd want number one
status
Where does that come from Dare?
I have never read anything from anybody be it drivers or any team member that LH has required No 1 status it's my understanding that he wants to beat everyone on equal terms.
Certainly hard to say. When Rosberg defeated Hamilton, the team was a steamroller, and it didn't really matter if they favoured either driver and, to Mercedes credit, I think they realized that having the WDC come to the final race was good for the sport, and probably would have put their thumbs on the scale to do so. (I'm not accusing anyone of anything. As far as I can tell, that season was run fair and square... but if it needed juicing Toto would have.)
The question is if Hamilton, as the new guy, would be able to outperform LeClerc at the team? LeClerc already has his place and trust, and we know that make a few tenths difference. Would Hamilton be okay taking a season to settle in? I don't know. I'd love to see it. It would be interesting seeing Hamilton as 'the underdog' again.
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I'm maybe a rare breed in that I am a LH fan besides being a six time WC and being British he has always raced clean within the rules and to my knowledge no driver has accused him of wanting or getting preferential treatment which is different to team orders to attain a Championship.
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Race Fans expects Sainz will take the Ferrari seat while Ricciardo will take Sainz' seat at McLaren.
https://www.racefans.net/2020/05/13/ferrari-sainz-mclaren-ricciardo/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+f1fanatic+%28RaceFans+-+Independent+Motorsport+Coverage%29 (https://www.racefans.net/2020/05/13/ferrari-sainz-mclaren-ricciardo/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+f1fanatic+%28RaceFans+-+Independent+Motorsport+Coverage%29)
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Race Fans expects Sainz will take the Ferrari seat while Ricciardo will take Sainz' seat at McLaren.
If that's the case they are definitely looking at a No 2. :D
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So Sainz is going to Ferrari; Riciardo to McLaren; who to Renault?? Rumour says Alonso - I could see that as a real possibility but I can't see Renault helping him with his multi-series aspirations. Where will Vettel go - could he replace Bottas at Mercedes? It would seem strange to replace a good point scoring Bottas for an unpredictable (and I assume more expensive) Vettel but stranger things have happened. Or would Vettel go to the struggling Renault?
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Vettle may retire. He has 3 children and has
become somewhat of a family man. I don't think
he'd be happy at any of the B or C teams so why
not just hang your gloves up
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We don't know if Merc will be able to fulfil Lewis' monetary expectations for 2021 and beyond yet. The pandemic has thrown all sorts of curved balls into the financial health of F1, F1 teams and Motor manufacturers.
Will Lewis be happy to race for maybe $15 to $20m, - more to the point will Merc be willing to pay more? :DntKnw:
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I'm maybe a rare breed in that I am a LH fan besides being a six time WC and being British he has always raced clean within the rules and to my knowledge no driver has accused him of wanting or getting preferential treatment which is different to team orders to attain a Championship.
LH isn't my all time favourite, but honestly, he's a great racer on and off the track. F1 is lucky to have him. Schumacher and Vettel were great racers, but I don't feel they were interested in growing the sport (I'm not saying F1 drivers have to want to grow the sport... but it's nice when they do).
Certainly Stewart, Fangio and Prost have all given immensely to F1,cementing their place as paragons of the sport. I'm sure everyone reading this could easily add to the list of 'greats' who ensured that F1 grew.
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The press are saying that Liberty will help pay Alonso's salary if he goes to Renault..... how could they justify helping one driver and one team?? They also report that Vettel leaving Ferrari has cost F1 stock over $90million so why wouldn't Liberty help keep Vettel in F1 by pushing him towards Renault. It is either rubbish or very confusing!
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The press are saying that Liberty will help pay Alonso's salary if he goes to Renault..... how could they justify helping one driver and one team?? They also report that Vettel leaving Ferrari has cost F1 stock over $90million so why wouldn't Liberty help keep Vettel in F1 by pushing him towards Renault. It is either rubbish or very confusing!
That's an interesting thought: the drivers being contracted to F1 directly, instead of the individual teams. Off hand I can't see how it would work, but labour negotiations aren't my strong suit either.
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The dominoes have started to fall. Sainz is going to Ferrari & DannyRic is going to McLaren.
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The press are saying that Liberty will help pay Alonso's salary if he goes to Renault..... how could they justify helping one driver and one team?? They also report that Vettel leaving Ferrari has cost F1 stock over $90million so why wouldn't Liberty help keep Vettel in F1 by pushing him towards Renault. It is either rubbish or very confusing!
Legally, they can't - it's advertised as a sport, which means the leadership cannot help one team over another. (Perceptions of helping one team over another are different, but at minimum, plausible deniability must exist!)
More likely, some big sponsors are keen to help pay the salary and Liberty's happy to help with introducing them to Renault. (As long as it does that every time it catches wind of a big sponsor wanting to help a team, that is within its powers - at least in theory).
As for the other dominoes: I have a bad feeling about Renault. Whoever takes Daniel's place is going to be in trouble. Daniel will likely find McLaren more freeing than he expects, and thus will perform better than at Renault. He's going to give Lando a lot to think about, though I also think Lando can give as good as he gets. Plus that's going to be a hilarious, fan-friendly team off-track... Not words I could have imagined typing about McLaren in either Ron Dennis era. (In point of fact, that very lightness is likely to help McLaren be a bit quicker).
Sainz to Ferrari seems... ...a little odd. Now, I can understand Ferrari wanting a natural #2 without needing to specify that in any contract, but they've only hinted at that, and I don't think Carlos is getting the hint. He has enough speed to covet the #1 role but not the supporting skills to make it happen. Carlos may well enter Ferrari and have a performance or two that looks like it can subvert Ferrari's intended position - in fact that's very likely - but I think that will be the ruining of his job position.
This is because Carlos has not, to my eye, shown an ability to separate what he is actually doing from what others say he is doing. Ferrari has a bad habit of saying drivers are doing multiple things, depending on who one listens to and how the listening is done, so drivers who are taking their cues from their team (and most of them do, at least to some extent) are apt to be confused - especially given that the nature of things is that great races are followed by mediocre ones. That's before we start with what press, fans, advisors and what one's own instinct (the latter not always of a unified opinion in all circumstances) says are happening. With that confusion, there's no way back from the mediocre races to the great ones, except by luck. That could induce consistency, potentially - but it would be consistent mediocrity, which is not what Carlos seeks.
Now, Carlos can lead a bit, but is hopeless at psuedopolitics and quite intense in approach. This is an awkward combination, because the approaches to lasting at Ferrari seem to be:
- Lead and be good at psuedopolitics at which point one can be as intense as one likes). Example: Michael Schumacher
- Lead and not be particularly intense (at which point the psuedopolitical side is almost irrelevant) Example: Kimi Raikkonen
- Be good at psuedopolitics and not be too intense (at which point, one can slot in as a leader or follower as appropriate under the circumstances) Example: Felipe Massa
This means Carlos risks being sidelined when he discovers the gap between his dreams and his power, because he'll be accidentally bringing down the team mood and not saying/doing the right things. I don't mean losing his contract - in fact, as he's more consistent about his intensity and psuedopolitical skills than Alonso, he might even be offered a (not particularly great) contract extension at the end of his first stint. Rather, like what eventually happened to Felipe when Ferrari started doing strange things to keep Fernando Alonso on board, he'll find he loses some sense of the team's enthusiasm and find the relationship unravelling in his hands.
This will do Carlos no harm in his midfield team negotiations and might even help his career in the long run. It just won't be what Carlos has in mind at this point.
* Sidenote: Ferrari is less picky about type of leadership, I think, than some other teams - but to take approaches 1) or 2), it's necessary to be leading Ferrari in at least some things it needs. Kimi definitely didn't lead at everything, but he concentrated on the types of leadership Ferrari needed in 2007 and from there, focused on consistency. This is part of why his puesdopolitical skills didn't matter - Ferrari knew and trusted that Kimi would never backstab anyone, and what they saw was what they got, and that he didn't need to wait for an instruction to do something useful. This led to a useful co-leadership with Vettel during his second stint at Ferrari, and their joint contribution to getting Ferrari back into title contention is often overlooked.