GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Scott on September 24, 2012, 05:57:22 PM
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Heroes
Vettel
Alonso
Massa
Zeros
RBR
Mclaren reliability
Tilke
...I'll elaborate later...just wanted to chuck it out there
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Heroes
Massa
Really?? :o
You feeling OK Scott?
He did have a great race all the same.
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I thought Massa had a brilliant race, was gutted for Pastor too, never put a foot wrong.
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Heroes-
Vettel- Did most things right although was arguably lucky to be handed the race.
Button- A quiet run but he did well enough.
Alonso- had some good fortune but did well to round off the podium.
Marussia- For taking 10th in the rankings with a 12th place finish.
Hamilton and Maldonado for not hitting each other.
Zeros-
Williams reliability- Cost the team a fair few points which was disappointing but sums up the season.
The driver's crazy 15 minutes- They seemed to switch off after the first safety car for a while, leading to the second safety car.
Webber- His bad spell shows no sign of ending any time soon.
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Heroes
Massa
Really?? :o
You feeling OK Scott?
He did have a great race all the same.
That was one if the best recoveries I've ever seen. I've done that kind of thing in snow, but in an F1 car on dry pavement to slide right, then left, make the turn and complete the pass? Yes he gets my hero vote for that race...plus he came from the very back to finish respectfully.
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Heroes
Vettel - never made a mistake (except brake checking Button, although it wasn't really a mistake)
Alonso - same as above without the brackets
Massa
Zeros
RBR - calling in Webber when he was still doing well on those tires
Mclaren reliability
Tilke - designed a track that required a SC for every little incident
...I'll elaborate later...just wanted to chuck it out there
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Heroes:
Massa - the best driving I've seen from him in years.
Vergne - As I mentioned in another thread, he showed great sportsmanship after the shunt. When he walked toward Schumi, I was expecting a NASCAR moment.
Vettel - A well driven race and a gracious move to dedicate the victory to Professor Sid afterward.
Zeroes:
The Stewards - For they much-delayed dinging of Webber. Why did it take 2/3ds of the race to decide?
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Hero's
Glock-12th place,nice finish for a back marker
Massa-drove like there's no tomorrow and there may not be
Hamilton-had the car for the win,maybe he'd better stop the
nonsense and sign on the dotty line
Vettel-the game is afoot
zero's
the track-no passing,simple dnf's bring out the sc and the bad
news is their on till 2017
Mclaren-reliability
Mercedes-looks like BMW and Honda of old,no show for the money
and finally
Michael-used to not like him and now he's my favorite driver but
the Michael of old was flawless!every laplooked the same
and now all these rookie mistakes.I hope he stays because even
a 75% Michael is good for the sport
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Hehe Dare, monty's gonna love the last paragraph of your post, I agree with you though.
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I wouldn't say this track is zero. I agree the pass is difficult to make, but as I have heard those drivers speak, this track daunts them to drive. With the bumpiness as well as the physical aspect of racing, not to mention the light for night really makes Singapore unique, and for me that is a Hero, not a zero.
Micheal used to deny every possibility that he is wrong. As nowadays he admits his faults I wonder did that softened him, and thus might have lost a fair amount of edge. Though I love having this guy around, but just not used to his continuous failing to have good results, and watching Schumacher in a struggling car.
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Spectacular it is in the night with all the lights, I don't like the fact that a SC is almost guaranteed if anyone hits the wall anywhere. The runoff areas could have been designed much better to allow a car to be removed with local yellows. And passing zones are few and far between. Above all, I hate a timed race (but I blame that on Bernie and the TV rights).
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The Stewards - For they much-delayed dinging of Webber. Why did it take 2/3ds of the race to decide?
This is why we need full time, professional referees who receive a full pension plan and... wait... which sport is this again?
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OK, Jeri. Now you've gone and upset all of Da
Cheese Heads Packer Backers! :nono:
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Michael-used to not like him and now he's my favorite driver but
the Michael of old was flawless!every laplooked the same
and now all these rookie mistakes.I hope he stays because even
a 75% Michael is good for the sport
This is a wind up isn't it? Nearly had me going there.
I used to dislike Schumacher because he was an arrogant cheat, now I hate Schumacher because he is a dangerous, arrogant cheat. :D
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Arrogant, mmmaybe monty, but statistically he is the greatest F1 driver ever. Schumacher is'nt the only driver to have rear ended another car. I would'nt call him a cheat, admittedy he has made a couple of dubious moves, but then so have plenty of other drivers, among them the late, great Ayrton, of whom probably 99+% of us regard him as one of the greatest ever.
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statistically he is the greatest F1 driver ever.
F1 percentage wins (excluding Indy 500 1950-60)
Schumacher - 30.1%
Clark - 34.7%
Ascari - 40.6%
Fangio - 47.1%
And Fangio did it all in his 40's.
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I was'nt just talking about wins Cos, apart from his 7 WDC, it's all the records he has broken. If we go back to Fangio's time and the 1*drivers car broke down he grabbed the 2* drivers car.
(sorry about the asterisks, can't find the hash key)
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I tend to look at percentages due to points inflation (9 points for a win vs. current 25) and schedule (6 to 8 races per year vs. 18 to 20).
Other JMF records:
% Poles - 55.8%
% Front Row Starts - 92.31
In 7 full seasons, he had 5 WDC's and 2 seconds.
No other driver has won WDC's with 4 different teams.
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Dear old Ian and Cos, it will be unjust for both Fangio and Schumacher to be compared head o head, they hail from two different era, have whole different circumstances. But one this they share is that their utter dominance in their time. Ok people might raise their eye-brow a little, Schumacher??dominance??Mercedes??where??
But in his Ferrari days, he is the guy to beat, he is the guy every little boy wished to be, he is the guy who set the standard of competitiveness. All his battles starting from Damon Hill to Fernando Alonso, all will admit, regardless of their opinion, he made sure he was the one to beat.
And there are people who believes Ayrton was a dirty driver (Dare does, I know), yet he has the respect and following almost to none. Even after the death about a decade ago, documentaries are being made, and yet he could be make his place in the heart of many F1 fans.
And Fangio is called the Grandmaster, do I need to progress further? And among this a bloke named Jim Clark will always steal the heart with his sublime control..
They are great in their own way, and each of them showed us to limit a F1 car can be pushed..
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statistically he is the greatest F1 driver ever.
In the words of the very wise...."Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Everyone here knows my opinions but in short:- he was often beaten in the same machinery by other drivers but he manipulated teams, out negotiated team mates and cheated his way to several WDC's.
In a different era (head to head with Senna, Prost, Mansell when they were in their primes) he would have been an also ran.
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I have always thought that a driver should be measured by more than how many wins or WDCs he collects. Here, most drivers from about 1980 on fail. Senna would run over his Mother to win a WDC, and Schumacher was worse. MS had a number of lapdog team mates, a private testing facility where he could run 24/7 and a sweetheart deal with Bridgestone. Yes he is talented, but with that set up any number of drivers could have won. Statistics cannot tell the whole story, MS' cars were massively more reliable than Clark's. How many times was Clark leading when his car quit? If you wish to talk dominance, Clark holds the record for the most sweeps: Pole, Fastest Lap, Lead Every Lap and Win. He did it 8 times in 72 races. But again, no one can lead every lap today, they have to change tires. Clark won 4 races on the same set of Dunlops. You may favour who you like, I'll take Clark and his mates Hill, Stewart, McLaren, Surtees Etc. Hard competitors and still sportsmen.
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BD, I've never compared a driver from one era to another era, it can't be done or proved, all I'm saying is that 7 WDC's says it all, whether anyone thinks he's cheated or not is up to the individual. Yes, I'm a Schumacher fan(monty's probably guessed that by now :tease:) but I personally think the best driver of the moment is Alonso.
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Yes, I'm a Schumacher fan(monty's probably guessed that by now :tease:) but I personally think the best driver of the moment is Alonso.
me too.
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Totally agree with your last two sentences Lonny, but it was a different ball game then, they knew that if they forced another driver off there was a good chance of killing them, I was'nt into F1 then but I've watched a lot of docu's on them, the camaraderie between drivers then was great.
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statistically he is the greatest F1 driver ever.
In the words of the very wise...."Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Everyone here knows my opinions but in short:- he was often beaten in the same machinery by other drivers but he manipulated teams, out negotiated team mates and cheated his way to several WDC's.
In a different era (head to head with Senna, Prost, Mansell when they were in their primes) he would have been an also ran.
In the immortal words of Dominic Toretto:
"Ask any racer. Any real racer. It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning."
Why should the best driver be narrowed down to someone with on track talent? Why not look at ALL aspects of what makes someone great? Is the best soccer player the one with the best penalty kick? Or the one who manages to be on the right team, in the right position to score the winning goal? Repeatedly? Talent on track is just one part of the Schumacher Legend!
Schumacher defined an era of F1 that lasts today. Before him, the driver made a difference. Now, it's a team of hundreds who design, build and service a car. There was a time where being the best driver mattered, until Schumacher showed that being part of the best team mattered more. He might not have set this era in motion, but he certainly knew how to be in the right place at the right time.
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Very True and well said.
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Why should the best driver be narrowed down to someone with on track talent? Why not look at ALL aspects of what makes someone great?
Sorry, I am really competitive but I would rather lose than get a win by cheating.
Schumacher cheated on many occassions and had no regard for other drivers safety.
That does not make him 'great'.
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At this point, I would bring up Sir Sterling Moss. He never won a WDC. In 1958, he handed the WDC to Mike Hawthorn in the name of fairness. Would anyone question that he was one of the greatest drivers of all time?
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Can't imagine any driver doing that now Cos, in fact, if they did they would probably be sectioned, on top of being given the sack.
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Why should the best driver be narrowed down to someone with on track talent? Why not look at ALL aspects of what makes someone great?
Sorry, I am really competitive but I would rather lose than get a win by cheating.
Schumacher cheated on many occassions and had no regard for other drivers safety.
That does not make him 'great'.
There are far too many sports where unsportsmanlike conduct is often rewarded. 'Diving' is still epidemic in soccer. In basketball the rules are practicaly written to foul opponents near the end of a close game.
Schumacher's 'cheats' were certainly part of the game. I should think if he'd been called out on them in any meaningful way, he'd have stopped, but he wasn't. He played the game the way they let him play it.
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Giles Villeneuve is also considered as one of those who failed to won a championship, yet considered among the greats of all time.
In the Soccer, Mr. Maradona scored with the Hands of Gods, and yet arguably one of the greatest of all to play the game. As Jeri put it nicely the fact that Schumacher played the game better than anybody else.
I am a Schumacher fan as well Ian, and people will always have their opinion and they should be respected. But I will definitely miss him next season to cause fair bit of flair fro Monty. :'(
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Don't write Michael off yet BD, I'm sure he has been listening to all the rumours flying around and been doing some delving, thinking and conferring.
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In those days MS seemed to be coated with teflon, nothing anyone accused him of ever stuck, no matter how obvious it was.