GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Alonsofan on April 14, 2013, 02:31:31 PM
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Apart from the obvious talent and mastery of Fernando here are my other views:
Button did very well to get the McLaren up to 5th
Nice to see Hulkenburg lead for a few laps again, think he is a quality driver
Shame Mark Webber "missed" with his rear wheel ;) Not a bad effort though :DD
Oh and did i say how brilliant Fernando was? ;) lol
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Overall a great race, Alonso fully deserved the win, Webber, well, he defines bad luck doesn't he. Still can't see 9 drivers ignoring yellow's and DRS restriction.
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I thought it was a pretty average race until Vettel pitted near the end and started chasing down Hamilton. I was on the edge of my seat for the last 2 laps. Thrilling stuff :yahoo:
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I thought it was a average too.Glad to see Alonso
in a better car that RB[so far]
Webber's luck continues next race with a penalty
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Have to admit it was nice seeing Vettel off the podium
I still wonder how MS would be doing in the Merc?
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Schumacher<Rosberg<Hamilton :D
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An average race, made better by Vettel's end of race charge. Alonso drove a good race & deserved to win. As for Mark, I turn to the words of Leroy Jethro Gibbs, "Rule #39: There is no such thing as coincidence." At least not this dang many of them!
I'd like to give a well done to Jules Bianchi & Marussia-Cosworth. The new suspension seems to be working for them. Bianchi was even nipping at Maldonado's heels for a bit.
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I still wonder how MS would be doing in the Merc?
DNF :DD :DD
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I think I viewed the Williams once, maybe twice. Probably for the best it was so infrequent. Hmm
Other than that, I was not so impressed by the race. Alonso did a good job, as did Kimi. Webber's luck continues to amaze me.
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I just heard that today's win tie Alonso with Nigel Mansell for 4th place on the all-time wins list with 31. Next on the list is Senna with 41.
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Re-watched via the NBC replay. I think Pirelli has done a good job of building the tires they were asked to build, but today I thought maybe they were too much of a factor. When the pitwall tells Vettel to let Alonso go, and Jens has to ask if he should fight Hamilton, it's maybe gone too far. The soft definitely needs adjusting, 5 laps is not enough. I would reckon a good driver should get 10 or so. 10 laps difference between compounds is better than 15+. :DntKnw:
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It wasn't a great race, but it was slightly better than the usual dry weather Chinese Grand Prix, mainly because there were different strategies at play, and the closing stages were tense.
Alonso was first class today, especially when you compare his performance to Massa's. I thought Felipe would go better than that, based on his Friday speed, so the gap to Alonso was a surprise, although his first pit stop came too late.
Raikonnen also did well, in view of the the damage to his car, and Button was impressive, given how indifferent the McLaren still is. Ricciardo also went very well, and I think that he looks to be increasingly the more promising of the two Toro Rosso drivers for a promotion.
Williams were poor again. Their cars didn't finish that far ahead of Bianchi and Pic, which doesn't bode well.
Finally, I must confess to having smiled when Vettel failed to get onto the podium, and to laughing when that errant wheel from Webber's car almost hit Vettel's machine. Not Mark's weekend at all. Maybe he should borrow Vettel's car :D?
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I fell asleep on the warm-up lap (1:00 am), and woke up 4 laps from the end.
So for me, it was a great action filled race!
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I just heard that today's win tie Alonso with Nigel Mansell for 4th place on the all-time wins list with 31. Next on the list is Senna with 41.
I saw that too Cosworth :yahoo: :yahoo:
He will be 3rd by the end of the season then ;)
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I agree with Lonny. I'm fed up watching cars busy not racing! Tyre management and pit strategy is getting really boring. If we have to persist with this format then I think the cars should be forced to run a minimum number of laps on each tyre. Imagine what would have happened if they were told they had to run at least 15 laps on the super-soft. It would have been like ice racing!
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I agree with Lonny. I'm fed up watching cars busy not racing! Tyre management and pit strategy is getting really boring.
I agree, but we mustn't forget that these measures were brought in to increase overtaking after many years of really boring processional races. I too think the measures (weak tyres, DRS) are becoming too much the sport, and not the racing, but give them a chance to sort it out, it's better than the past. The overtaking stats say it all, from cliptheapex.com:
(http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd346/vintly/overtaking_stats_2_zps65788f3b.jpg) (http://s530.photobucket.com/user/vintly/media/overtaking_stats_2_zps65788f3b.jpg.html)
From what I've heard, from the Barca GP there'll be more soft tyres for quali, making that more lively at least. Hopefully Pirellli will be made to toughen up the compounds a bit too.
On the whole I thought it was a bit dull until the end, except for when there was contact.
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Overaking is too easy now though, thanks to DRS. I'd be happy if we went back to the levels of overtaking from the 1980s on that graph. I don't mind cars passing each other because of tyre degradation, but I do object to easy passes on straights using DRS.
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DRS means there's little point in going for a good qualifying spot unless you're a pole contender or expecting to start in 11th or below, and also that most overtakes are telegraphed laps in advance and therefore lose all drama and interest before they happen. I'm fed up of being able to tell where everyone will finish (crashes and pit strategy stupidity excepted) by lap 6.
It comes down to whether one wants 10 sugar-free chocolate bars or 1 standard one.
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Too bad Alia, if you could do that before the race, I am sure we would have no chance with you in GG.
Well I think its a direction the authority are forced to take, because otherwise the bigger teams would have made it all of their own. Putting a budget cap would have another way of ensuring close racing, but that would have undermined the pinnacle of motorsports.
I think they should address aerodynamic issue, this may be another region where can try to ensure good wheel to wheel racing.
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I think they should address aerodynamic issue, this may be another region where can try to ensure good wheel to wheel racing.
They should, but they won't.
The teams can never agree with each other about what to do regarding the aerodynamics, and that's before the FIA tries to get involved, which makes the matter even more divisive.
Why they felt the need to have DRS zones in China was beyond me. It's not a track where it's terribly difficult to pass, so what was the logic behind that decision?
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Waa-waa-waa...
(here I go again) The problem isn't that they have DRS. The problem is that they restrict it to one or two particular straights on the track.
Time limit it and let the drivers use it whenever/wherever they like. They can combine a strategy of KRS with the tire strategy and put in fast laps when they need it. Might actually give some of the slower teams a bit of a leg up now and then if they use it correctly as well.
I'm pretty pleased to watch races with position changes. Heckuva lot better than NOT. There could be better ways to do it, but until they figure them out, I'll go with what we have now. F1 will never become what it once was - and thank god for that. Just enjoy the best that the era has to offer.
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Formula One isn't the only sport that has been affected by 'modernization'.
Athletes in the 21st century are no longer grown men (and women) going out and playing kids games. Athletes like Wayne Gretzky, Larry Bird and Pele could 'get into shape' for their sporting season, and then slack off over the off season. Not now. An athlete needs to eat right, exercise right and practise constantly just to maintain their level.
It's the same for F1 drivers. A top driver used to be some guy who would get in a car and be magic behind the wheel. Now it is someone who dedicates his life to being ready to turn the magic on at will. It was possible for underdogs to win because they didn't spend the night out at Monte Carlo. Not anymore!
Unlike other sports though, F1 drivers are subject to their equipment. In the era of the garagistas, a bunch of guys followed their instincts, to design, build and maintain a car that they hoped would win. Sometimes they were right, sometimes they were wrong. There wasn't exhausting calculations, computerised manufacturing, or tolerances measured in microns. A genius design one race could fall apart the next.
That's just not part of the sport anymore. A top driver on day 1 will be a top driver on day 200. Same with a fast, reliable race car. Yes, there is room for the cars to get better during the season, and the possibility of miscalcuation by a top team, but really and truly, the sport and fans can no longer hope that a leading team will simply get it wrong to allow the pack to catch up and provide spectacle.
So we need to put in some speed bumps just to keep things close. I agree the rules aren't really in the spirit of F1, but the sport we see today is so far removed from what Fangio, Stewart, Senna or even Damon Hill would recognise anway. F1 will never be the same as it was, but I love that they're willing to try to make it something worth watching.
If the most exciting on track action comes from drivers making tiny mistakes, then surely it's expected that the people running the sport must be allowed tiny mistakes from time to time!
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I'm not saying we should go back to tires that would last the whole race, though I'm sure Pirelli could build them, there was just too big a gap between the the Prime and the Option. Jens knew he had to drive smart because he was going for one less stop, but to ask if he should defend or roll over for Lewis is a bit much for me. If they could write a set of rules that allowed a bit of ground effects, I think it would lead to less artificial passing and more real racing.
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Sorry all you guys and gals who thought the race boring, I thought the big uncertainty about the tyres, and therefore strategies, made the race both gripping and fascinating.
Loved Webber's dive for the pits after one lap, a move I was expecting - only due to my son's brilliant prediction of this. :-[ "It's simple" he said, as the cars were on the formation lap, "if those on mediums might leave it til the last lap to go onto softs someone in a fast car at the very back would lose little by doing the exact reverse on lap 1." Out of the mouths of babes etc. :swoon:
The difference in Massa & Alonso's performance is easy to explain, Felipe pitted too late from his first stint putting him behind cars that were hard to pass as they were on similar strategy with a touch less pace. This had the effect of either destroying his front tyres if he stayed on it trying to attempt passes, or staying down the order if he could not pass the cars he fell behind. Nando on the other hand enjoyed nice clear runs out on his own by making that space with skillfull overtakes right before the DRS zone jumping cars in front and staying there. :good: Handling a proper two car strategy does not seem to a Ferrari strongpoint. :D
The big standout for me was not the burst of action by Vettel at the end but rather why his team did not pit him a lap or two before they did? :DntKnw: There was clearly no danger of attack from behind, Jens & Di resta had to pit again and Massa's pace ruled him out of catching Seb. So no real danger from behind but a lot to gain ahead, ::) very bad strategy call by RBR for me. :crazy:
McLaren strategy however was spot on and executed to perfection by Jens, he simply had to stop when he did for the final set to ensure he caught and passed Massa whilst the fragile softs tyres had pace. :good: The whole strategy required careful driving so it was imperative for Jens to keep clear of cars that would hold him up or take wear from his tyres (as explained in Massa para above), oh and know which following cars he needed to hold up & when. ....."Simples" :yahoo: :yahoo:
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I think the current crop of tracks adds to this problem. Herr Tilke seems to think that the only proper "passing zone" is a long straight with a tight turn at the end.
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Too bad Alia, if you could do that before the race, I am sure we would have no chance with you in GG.
If I could do it before the race, I wouldn't be doing GG because I wouldn't watch a completely foregone conclusion. It's difficult enough persuading myself to watch a race after the half-dozen-lap pattern sets in.
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Time limit it and let the drivers use it whenever/wherever they like. They can combine a strategy of KRS with the tire strategy and put in fast laps when they need it. Might actually give some of the slower teams a bit of a leg up now and then if they use it correctly as well.
If a driver plunges straight into the guard rail at Eau Rouge, and does himself an injury, the outcry would be astronomical. Drivers will always look to go as fast as possible, and may well use it in completely inappropriate places on the track if this were implemented, so I don't think that it's a good idea at all.
I'm pretty pleased to watch races with position changes. Heckuva lot better than NOT. There could be better ways to do it, but until they figure them out, I'll go with what we have now. F1 will never become what it once was - and thank god for that. Just enjoy the best that the era has to offer.
Artificial overtaking along straights is not exciting Scott. I'd rather see no passes than ridiculously easy passes. In any case, just having the Pirelli tyres alone would mean that you wouldn't go back to the poor levels of overtaking that we had in the late 1990s/early 2000s. Tyre wear generates overtaking in corners. DRS isn't necessary.
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If a driver plunges straight into the guard rail at Eau Rouge, and does himself an injury, the outcry would be astronomical. Drivers will always look to go as fast as possible, and may well use it in completely inappropriate places on the track if this were implemented, so I don't think that it's a good idea at all.
A driver can plunge straight into the guard rail at Eau Rouge without using DRS. You can't seriously be using that as an argument. If one is so stupid to use it there, well... :DntKnw:
Define inappropriate. And for whom? If they spend their DRS time in stupid or pointless places, then it is their waste (mind you, everyone racing the last few laps, gates open to the finish line would be fun to watch). If they, on the other hand, learn to use it in practical and strategic places, then it would work just fine.
I think it's a great idea, but then I would, wouldn't I. :D
Artificial overtaking along straights is not exciting Scott. I'd rather see no passes than ridiculously easy passes. In any case, just having the Pirelli tyres alone would mean that you wouldn't go back to the poor levels of overtaking that we had in the late 1990s/early 2000s. Tyre wear generates overtaking in corners. DRS isn't necessary.
I didn't say I liked the overtaking, I said I liked the 'position changes'. What really drove me nuts pre-DRS was that it was a real event to have the finishing order differ from the starting grid except for the odd accident, but more often mechanical DNF or if someone really screwed up their Q time or pit stop.
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I might be a minority, but I love DRS. Yes it makes the race look a bit artificial, and the guy in front is a sitting duck, but still it gives you some wheel to wheel action . I think without DRS and Pirelli's fragile tyres, races would have been much more predictable. If I am not wrong I have seen processions in Cataluniya & Hungaroring, where the winners were decided in 1st Corner, at least these changes has turned these tracks pretty exciting, at least for me.
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I might be a minority, but I love DRS. Yes it makes the race look a bit artificial, and the guy in front is a sitting duck, but still it gives you some wheel to wheel action . I think without DRS and Pirelli's fragile tyres, races would have been much more predictable. If I am not wrong I have seen processions in Cataluniya & Hungaroring, where the winners were decided in 1st Corner, at least these changes has turned these tracks pretty exciting, at least for me.
Yeah I agree BD. Last year I was among the chorus of disapproval about the Pirelli tyres causing a lottery. This year however teams all know the chance they are taking in certain circumstances with the tyres, it's making strategies much more interesting. They are now able to get cars on differing strategies past potential road blockers because of the double dose of DRS. Makes the result a bit more unpredictable until later in the race, when the faster cars will be battling it out, which can only be a good thing, surely.
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A driver can plunge straight into the guard rail at Eau Rouge without using DRS. You can't seriously be using that as an argument. If one is so stupid to use it there, well... :DntKnw:
It's very unlikely that a driver will go off at Eau Rouge in this era, unless his car suffers some kind of suspension breakage, or a stuck throttle (neither of which happen with anything remotely bordering regularity any more).
It's a perfectly legitimate argument. As soon as one driver starts using DRS all over the place, the others will follow suit, because they cannot afford to lose even 0.1s on such a close grid, and then when someone has a serious accident through using DRS in a completely inappropriate place on a track, there would be all manner of criticism of the FIA for allowing DRS to be used without regulation.
Define inappropriate. And for whom?
Any fast corner entry/exit worthy of the name, and inappropriate for modern Formula 1 safety standards.
I didn't say I liked the overtaking, I said I liked the 'position changes'. What really drove me nuts pre-DRS was that it was a real event to have the finishing order differ from the starting grid except for the odd accident, but more often mechanical DNF or if someone really screwed up their Q time or pit stop.
You forgot rain in that list ;).
I've already acknowledged that lack of overtaking in the late 1990s and early 2000s was a problem, but making overtaking ridiculously easy doesn't solve the problem. It swings the pendulum to the opposite extreme.
As for the idea that there is still wheel to wheel action with DRS, I can't go along with that. The overtakes are a foregone conclusion. Senna/Mansell 1991 at the Cataluņa circuit it is most emphatically not.
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When a driver makes a stupid move causing a serious accident, we don't generally criticize the machine or the FIA, but the driver. Same goes here. An F1 car has so much potential for catastrophic accidents even without DRS. It's just another feature on the car. The drivers are given the responsibility to drive a machine with an insane power to weight ratio as it is, surely they can handle the responsibility of having 10 minutes or so per race to have an extra 60-70hp. It is far more likely to have a serious accident when cars collide, which would happen even more with wheel to wheel racing like you suggest.
My whole point is that instead of simply using DRS as a boring straight line booster system (leading to artificial passes), let the drivers (and teams) figure out the best strategy for when and where to use it. Throw in a time limit and you have your regulation. Who knows, they might all discover that it only works effectively on long straights, but then again, maybe not. I'd be happy to see the results of the experimentation. There are so many safety features on the cars and at the tracks now that the kind of accident DRS might cause would in almost all cases be injury-free.
And my final point was that although I don't really care for the artificial passes under DRS, I do enjoy the position changes.
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You're not winning me over I'm afraid.
We had a sample of unregulated DRS in free practice, and qualifying, during its first year, and led to some pretty lurid moments. The drivers already have enough to do in the cockpit without adding that to the races too. I get what you're trying to say about limiting it, and letting them choose their own point at which to use it, but I still don't think that it's wise, unless its use is simply outlawed at certain corners for safety reasons.
Either way, the discussion about DRS, regardless of our views on whether it's a good thing, or a bad thing, is smoke and mirrors, because the real issue is aerodynamics.