GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Wizzo on July 29, 2011, 09:09:20 AM
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Source BBC News...
The BBC and Sky Sports will broadcast Formula 1 in the UK between 2012 and 2018 under a new rights deal.
The BBC has been the exclusive broadcaster of F1 in the UK since 2009 but its contract with Formula One Management was due to expire after the 2013 season.
Sky Sports will show every race, qualifying session and practice live.
BBC Sport will broadcast half the races live, as well as the qualifying and practice sessions from those races.
Both companies will broadcast in high definition.
Races screened by the BBC will be live on the BBC Sport website for UK users.
The BBC will have highlights on TV, online and mobile for any race it is not showing live, and all races will be broadcast on BBC Radio 5 live.
Barbara Slater, director of BBC Sport, said: "We are absolutely delighted that F1 will remain on the BBC.
"The sport has never been more popular with TV audiences at a 10-year high and the BBC has always stated its commitment to the big national sporting moments.
"With this new deal not only have we delivered significant savings but we have also ensured that through our live and extended highlights coverage all the action continues to be available to licence-fee payers."
Races shown live on BBC TV will include the British Grand Prix at Silverstone, the Monaco GP and the concluding race of the season.
Barney Francis, managing director of Sky Sports, said: "This is fantastic news for F1 fans and Sky Sports will be the only place to follow every race live and in HD.
"We will give F1 the full Sky Sports treatment with a commitment to each race never seen before on UK television."
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Gutted, looks like I'll only be watching half the races, here's AUTOSPORT's report.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93447 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93447)
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Personally, I refuse to pay money to watch TV (apart from the licence fee). For the cost of a Sky subscription I could actually go to at least 6 races and watch half the season live on the BBC!
This is a disaster for F1 in the UK, luckily F1 is worldwide so the effects will probably go unnoticed. My fear is that this agreement will have the same affect on F1 as Sky had on boxing in the UK.
As always Sky have let the BBC do all the hard work getting the format just right and then they move in for the kill. Next you will have Brundle and Coulthard being offered vast salaries to 'jump ship' ensuring that Sky keep the format that everybody loves.
The is the first major step in us losing F1 to pay per view in the future. Hopefully, things will not be as bad as they seem but I know I would rather not watch F1 than pay for it.
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Plus highlight's are'nt worth watching are they. The end of Dare's GG maybe ?
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This is the real pits. >:D >:( How can the BBC think that half the races is good coverage, don't suppose they will consider just covering half the Olympics. :crazy:
Bernie was saying up until a couple of weeks ago that F1 would not go to pay TV. This is a quote atributed to Bernie, from a piece by Jonathan Noble on Autosport.com, 18th July 2011; - He added: "It isn't possible that F1 could go on to pay TV, we wouldn't want to do that."
Why say that when clearly at that time he knew that this carve up in favour of pay Tv was ready to happen, a deal like this doesn't get cobbled together in a few days.
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I for one won't be subscribing to sky sports, putting aside the fact that I find it hard to give money to make Murdoch's corrupt ammoral empire richer. This is a terrible decision, we have been lied to by mr Ecclestone and the teams who said they will keep it on free to air. On Twitter Martin Brundle said he was not impressed, hopefully during qually and the race he has the balls to vent his feelings, unlike David Croft this morning on 5 live. I know some of you probably have sky sport alreald, but for those who don't lets make a united stand and not upgrade. Falling viewing figures might make an impact.
For f1 fans in UK and ireland this is a terribly sad day.
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Bombard the BBC with emails, not that it will do any good but you can let know your feelings, don't swear though as it will be automatically binned.
barbara.slater@bbc.co.uk
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Oh well. That's ruined it for me, and probably ruined the sport.
Neil.P
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This is terrible news, also for many Dutch viewers for the Dutch broadcasting is covered with commercials for over 30% of the race! Plus no-one life on location, the commentator is sitting on the couch in his living room, just like you and me.
For me, that leaves the German RTL, witch should be good too, but I prefer English over German ;)
I wonder how it comes that the torrent site do bloom so wel... :o Oh no, I don't, 'cause I download myself, too... >:D >:D
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The more I think about this the angrier I become because we are getting the worst of both scenarios. If the Beeb dropped out at the end of 2012 and then Sky took over at least we would get another season free and savings at the BBC for other programming from 2013. Sure we would have to pay a subsription to get the races live, but we would be getting all of it for our money.
However now anyone wanting the whole season will have to fork out full Sky subscription and not get anything extra from the BBC. Under this stupid shared plan we will still need to pay to get all the races live but only need to watch half on Sky thanks to someones crazy idea at the BBC that half of anything is good service.
When I went to school half of something for the same money made it double dear, I know maths lessons have changed in the last Fifty years but arithmatic hasn't.
Just who thought up this crazy plan at the BBC? Must be Sky shareholders I reckon. :P
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Would'nt surprise me if we find out in the future that Ecclestone is somehow tied in with sky and he got a huge backhander.
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Welcome to our world. This is why some of us spend so much time on Sunday mornings looking for streaming links. Here in the States, F1 is mostly on Rupert's Speed TV. It isn't even available in many areas (like mine.)
Star Sports isn't BBC, but it's not bad. And, it's in English.
I haven't read if they will use separate broadcast teams or will share the same broadcast.
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But Cos, do you have to buy a tv licence to receive tv broadcasts ?
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They just announced on P2 that the BBC will be showing 10 GP's in their entirety. What races they are will be announced later.
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But Cos, do you have to buy a tv licence to receive tv broadcasts ?
Here you have to upgrade to the digital package and
then add the sports package to it.Thats why I finally
got tired of it and dropped it.
How much is the Sky Sports package in the UK?
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I wrote this... In my best English. ;)
Dear ms(s) Slater,
I recently learned for a relyable source, that BBC will be broadcasting F1 only for 50% (of each session!!) after next year. That surprises me in not the most funny way, because how can the BBC truly believe that people will see only 50% of the qualifying and 50% of the race? People won’t look any more. Also Sky won’t be the best idea, for people won’t pay for it.
Hope you reconsider the plans, for you will be losing lots of viewers. Most of the people I talk to – mostly Dutch and British – are looking for an alternative to drop both BBC and Sky. At least I get the alternative of the German RTL, but I like the British crew and I prefer English over German. No doubt however that I will switch to German if your plans won’t be changed!
Kind regards,
E. van Delft
evdelft@zonnet.nl
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Welcome to our world. This is why some of us spend so much time on Sunday mornings looking for streaming links. Here in the States, F1 is mostly on Rupert's Speed TV. It isn't even available in many areas (like mine.)
Star Sports isn't BBC, but it's not bad. And, it's in English.
I haven't read if they will use separate broadcast teams or will share the same broadcast.
In Canada F1 is carried by TSN (ESPN Canada in all but name). It's a '1st tier' cable channel. It costs about $50 a month to get TSN (including all other basic and 1st tier cable channels). However, TSN's coverage of F1 starts 5 minutes before the red lights, and ends with the words 'Sebastian, now a few words in your own language'. We get qualifying, but we don't get practise. For $5 more we can get digital cable, which includes Speed, which does have practise, but all other F1 content is blacked out.
We get the BBC feed with Martin and DC, although we only get to hear from EJ if there is a rain delay. We also get commercial breaks where they make the F1 race tiny, and we can't hear what's going on. (They usually time these for strategic pit stops or when the leaders are within 1/2 second of each other. :fool: )
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We don't have to pay a licence fee. However, the government let broadcast TV go all digital and cut power a few years back. For people who live outside of major metro area, especially in the mountains (like Claw-grrrl and I) it's pay for cable, pay for satellite or do without. Basic cable here is about $70 / month. Then, like Dare said, it takes several up charges to get Speed, if it's available at all. Where it is, it works out to well over $100 / month.
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This is the real pits. >:D >:( How can the BBC think that half the races is good coverage, don't suppose they will consider just covering half the Olympics. :crazy:
If it got the choice, it probably would. It already covers half the World Cup and Euro Cup, after all.
Bernie was saying up until a couple of weeks ago that F1 would not go to pay TV. This is a quote atributed to Bernie, from a piece by Jonathan Noble on Autosport.com, 18th July 2011; - He added: "It isn't possible that F1 could go on to pay TV, we wouldn't want to do that."
Why say that when clearly at that time he knew that this carve up in favour of pay Tv was ready to happen, a deal like this doesn't get cobbled together in a few days.
This is what bugs me. Bernie shouldn't have said that. He's just guaranteed that no TV company will ever trust him again. I hope he's willing to sell F1 to Sky cut-price becuase that's the path he's put F1 on, intentionall or otherwise.
Personally, I'm going to have a lot of trouble watching F1 next year. My house can only have one dish on it and it already has a Freesat one for the digital conversion. This has some channels not available on Sky that Mum watches, so there's no chance of it being removed. In other words, not only would I have to pay an extortionate amount for Sky to come into my house, but I'd have to buy a house (at a price of about £120,000 to live in a basic house in my area) in order to be able to get Sky in the first place. Clearly this isn't going to happen.
Dad's already said he refuses to watch the BBC rounds unless the BBC has all the races. This means that I will not be able to watch any F1 on the TV. I'm looking to have to stream half the races with only low amounts of knowledge about the rest of the races. Is it worth it? Let's put it this way: it is only my near-obsession with motor racing that even allows me to consider the option.
When F1 has worse coverage than sportscars despite charging many times more to competitors and receiving channels alike, it's time to consider whether I'm focusing on the right sport.
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Okay guys, instead of just whinging about this in here and other forums, we can do something. As you probably know FOTA are a major player in allowing these 'deals' to go ahead. They are the ones to pressurise, not the BBC or SKY who are both working for their own best interests. You can visit my facebook page that I have set up just for this at:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-F1-free-for-all/241783269176960?sk=wall (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-F1-free-for-all/241783269176960?sk=wall)
You can email FOTA directly to complain at:
http://www.teamsassociation.org/contacts (http://www.teamsassociation.org/contacts)
Please pass this on to as many people as possible! Thanks.
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It looks like this came as a surprise to almost everyone. On second practice this morning, the BBC presenters sad that they first heard about it when they got to the track this morning. Judging by the non-committal responses of the teams, I think they were caught off guard, too.
Maybe politely worded messages of concern to FOTA would be a good idea.
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Already emailed the BBC this morning, not they will give a toss, and just emailed FOTA, perhaps as airstriker says, if enough people do lodge a complaint there it may just help. Otherwise I have a choice next season, do I watch half a season or not bother at all ?
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Already emailed the BBC this morning, not they will give a toss, and just emailed FOTA, perhaps as airstriker says, if enough people do lodge a complaint there it may just help. Otherwise I have a choice next season, do I watch half a season or not bother at all ?
I posted on another thread that corporations respond to posted mail more than email. Email can be dashed off for free in 10 seconds, but a postcard requires a purchase, and effort to fill in and mail. Corporations DO respond to the effort, because it shows you care more than a 10 second fit of pique.
Might I suggest going after F1 where it really hurts: the sponsors. Send your postcards to Vodaphone, Santander and Red Bull.
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Hmmmm,
I wonder what is going to happen to F1 on TSN? Maybe over here we won't even notice the change.
Are MB and DC still going to be at the races commentating?
Shoot....F1 and hockey are the only sports I follow with any interest anymore and already I'm thinking I may take next year off watching hockey....and now maybe F1???
More time flying I guess!
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I think Jeri's right, but really, isn't it too late? Bernie's not going to just hand over the other half of the races to the BBC, especially as Sky is already bragging about being the only place to see the 'entire season' of F1.
I'm a bit surprised the teams either weren't informed, or if they were, didn't make a stink themselves. Most of them are based in the UK after all, they are certainly going hear about it from everyone in the area with a mouth (their support staff, local restaurants and bars...etc, etc.).
But sending postcards to the sponsors sounds like the best idea. I hope they like our hotel picture on the back :P
Here are a few addresses to get us started:
Complaints
Santander UK PLC
PO Box 1125
BRADFORD
BD1 9PG
Pirelli Tyres Ltd.
Derby Road,
Burton-on-Trent Staffordshire
DE 13 OBH
Renault UK,
Rivers Office Park,
Denham Way,
Rickmansworth, Herts,
WD3 9YS
Vodafone Customer Care
Vodafone House,
The Connection,
Newbury, Berkshire
RG14 2FN
Shell U.K. Limited
Shell Centre
London
SE1 7NA
Virgin Mobile
PO Box 2692
Trowbridge
BA14 0WX
AT&T Business, Level 4, Cardinal Place,
80 Victoria Street,
London SW1 5JL
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Hmmmm,
I wonder what is going to happen to F1 on TSN? Maybe over here we won't even notice the change.
Are MB and DC still going to be at the races commentating?
Shoot....F1 and hockey are the only sports I follow with any interest anymore and already I'm thinking I may take next year off watching hockey....and now maybe F1???
More time flying I guess!
The switch between ITV and BBC was pretty seamless.... although ITV had its own commercial breaks that TSN used.
I don't know how TSN's rights are structured, if they have a separate deal with BBC and FOM. In which case, I'm sure they'll have to work something out with Sky... or Speed. (TSN did use Speed coverage for a couple races last year, or maybe 2 years ago. It was awful, but if the British coverage requires multiple deals, it might be easier to deal with Speed. Or maybe we can talk TSN into sending us to cover the races live! We'd have to miss chat though :( )
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Question: why are BBC bothering to show 50% of the race? If a person is paying a fortune to watch it on sky, are they going to then abandon it for free to air, when there is a clash? Britain is F1's heartland, and the decision today has really been a big attempt to kill it there.
I'm livid at this, really really f-ing angry. We have been lied to out and out lied to.
Plan: I'm going to mention inland revenue to Bernard, and when he gives me £44m I'll stump up for everyone here's sky sport subscription.
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I think the responses to this statement by the BBC pretty much sums up how we feel in the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2011/07/f1_coverage_to_be_shared_betwe.html (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2011/07/f1_coverage_to_be_shared_betwe.html)
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Wait, what? I thought that BBC would be showing 50% of the RACES...as in they'll show 9 of 18 events but now I'm reading closer. You mean to tell me they are going to show only 50% of the race and then switch off?? ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING?????
Holy crap, what kind of gorilla marketing is that?
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I may benefit from this by having pre and post race programes.
Wizz how can you get to six GP's for the cost of Sky? I have Sky and obviously Sky Sports for F1 but the cost would not fund trips to GP's. When F1 went to Sky before I paid for the coverage then as it cost less than going to a GP so for me it see a single race or the whole season.
I think going to Sky is better than going back to ITV!!
Just my honest opinion.
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Wait, what? I thought that BBC would be showing 50% of the RACES...as in they'll show 9 of 18 events but now I'm reading closer. You mean to tell me they are going to show only 50% of the race and then switch off?? ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING?????
Holy crap, what kind of gorilla marketing is that?
No, you were right the first time.
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Makes me wanna puke, Jecklestones crowing about it in the paper this morning insiting it's great for the fans and the sport, plus you have Whitmarsh saying there won't be a premium for watching F1 on sky, no, maybe not, but you still have to subscribe to the sports package just to watch F1, what a twat.
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Omigod...I just had a a peek at Sky's website. If you have Sky available to you, the cost is 50GBP per month, not including initial hookup costs. If you already have Sky, but need to upgrade to the 5 (only 5!) sports channels for an additional 40GBP per MONTH!! - and add another 10GBP just for ESPN.
Good god you have to watch a lot of sports to warrant that. That's robbery. In Switzerland I can pay 35Sfr a month (about 25GBP) for 160 channels (most in HD) including every sports channel available in Switzerland (there are 6-7 I think).
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Possibly because the cheap satellite option is Freesat (once you have the dish and box installed, it's free unless you want a top-up channel). According to my channel listing, there are over 300 channels, covering most subjects and having several foreign languages (and several channels from abroad remade or dubbed into English). Sadly F1 won't be available on that system, except for the parts BBC shows.
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Apparently the teams couldn't care a less about the fans either...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93507 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93507)
To reiterate, the BBC will NOT have access to the Sky only races to broadcast at a delayed time. That's just what Martin Whitmarsh 'supposedly' understood.
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I'll wait and see if Virgin can come up with a sensible price just for the F1 races, or a race by race price for the ones that Scabstone has hived off to sky (for a nice profit of course), if the price ain't right I don't think I'll bother watching any of it.
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Exactly what I said. Real fans will be so p*ssed that they can't watch the whole season, so they'll turn away completely.
Honestly, I think this will boil for quite a while until the teams and sponsors realize what a disaster it will be to turn it all over to Sky. A couple of million per team can't seriously be worth losing hundreds of thousands of fans, or maybe millions.
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Maybe we should just run this discussion here instead of three different threads...
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Many of my family, friends and work colleagues are paying an average of £100 per month for their complete Sky package. This is what I based my 6 GP visits on, £1200 a year is an awful lot of money.
I have thought about this long and hard and I still refuse to pay anything for F1 on principle alone. I also do not want to watch the F1 races on the BBC 4 hours after the race has finished and I know the results.
For the first time in 35 years I am questioning my loyalty to F1.
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I am posting this link as much for the picture of Bernie as for the story...but the blog is actually right on the mark.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/jul/30/f1-bernie-ecclestone-tv-deal (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/jul/30/f1-bernie-ecclestone-tv-deal)
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One million GBP. That's what each team is set to receive for this deal. That's not really very much in F1 terms. I wonder how much and how loud fan outrage it will take to get them to see that they stand to lose many millions more in sponsorship money once the viewing figures go down?
The fact that the teams are smiling and going on as if everything is peachy makes me think Bernie has sold this deal to them as just the tip of the iceberg, and that they should just imagine what kind of money they'll make when he starts doing the same thing with every other country's broadcasters.
Another story I read indicates that the whole deal was actually instigated by the BBC because they wouldn't have been able to pay for the rest of their broadcast contract without sub-contracting some of it out. Seems poorly thought out if that's the case. They could have at the very least offered up a standard def version on BBC and sell the HD version to cable.
Slightly related:
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/30072011/58/teams-say-tv-deal.html (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/30072011/58/teams-say-tv-deal.html)
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I'm still not sure when the teams found out about this. Yesterday during second practice, the BBC guys said they didn't hear about it until they got to the track that morning. It will be interesting to see what shakes out once the race week-end is over. Everyone will have three weeks to sort out how they feel about it. Sadly, it sounds like it's a done deal, legally.
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Whitmarsh was pretty quick with his brain farts trying to put a positive spin on it. Very un-Mclaren like. If I was Ron I'd chuck him over this, not over 2011's performance. >:(
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OMG I was away for a couple of days in Germany and look what I've missed. This is awful news and a bloody disgrace. >:(
I have Sky but not Sky sports and I really don't want to have to pay another subscription on top of my TV licence and standard Sky. I watch darts on Sky sports at a mates house and it is dominated by ads which for me spoils viewing.
Another worry is that F1 will go the way of boxing and go pay per view. If it was £15-£20 per weekend to watch F1 coverage that would be the end of it for most. I fear because of the per race viewing figures that is the way it will go. RIP F1 :'(
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As long as streaming isn't effected it's no big deal,just
connect your pc to a bid screen tv.
I guess I've gotten used to watching F1 the hard way
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I am posting this link as much for the picture of Bernie as for the story...but the blog is actually right on the mark.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/jul/30/f1-bernie-ecclestone-tv-deal (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/jul/30/f1-bernie-ecclestone-tv-deal)
Awesome, an even better pic for my "No Bernie" avatar!
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So its not just Bernies bank that is to benefit as with this new TV deal each of the teams will receive US$1 Million so although I believe I'll benefit here in NZ its not so good for those on the UK.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93507 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93507)
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This web page lists all sorts of people and organisations we can voice our displeasure to :-
http://saveformula1.com/organisations-to-write-to/ (http://saveformula1.com/organisations-to-write-to/)
If you look amongst some of the comments there are even more email addresses.
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Taken from the Observer...
Brits are working to save money within their households:
67% are buying more generic brands
46% are bringing their own lunch to work
31% have cancelled one or more magazine subscriptions
22% have stopped buying coffee on the way to work
and finally..... 33% have cancelled or cut their TV services.
Nice timing Bernie! :fool:
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Sky/BBC deal 'saved free-to-air' F1 coverage in UK
By Jonathan Noble Sunday, July 31st 2011, 11:36 GMT
Williams chairman Adam Parr believes Bernie Ecclestone did the right thing in putting together that BBC/Sky shared broadcast deal for next year - because there was a risk of Formula 1 coverage being off free-to-air television entirely.
While British fans remain angry about the prospect of not being able to watch every race live on the BBC from 2012, Parr says that those unhappy about the move should actually be happy that Ecclestone has managed to keep at least some races on the channel.
Although sympathetic that fans will feel they are worse off in 2012, Parr says that they must take into consideration that they could have been even worse off if the Sky/BBC share deal had not come together.
"I can understand why a British fan who has had free non-advert coverage, amazing content, and brilliant presenters will be saying that anything else is going to be less good," explained Parr.
"I am sorry that the BBC could not carry on doing what they are doing, but they made that decision. I don't think that the fees being charged to the BBC are unreasonable compared to Wimbledon or any other major sports event.
"I am sympathetic, but to be fair the teams have not had any involvement in this. We don't negotiate these deals, but when Bernie briefed us as a group about this, the universal view was, okay we get it. We understand why you've done it. We see the benefits; we know where you are coming from - fair enough."
When asked by AUTOSPORT if there was a prospect that F1 could even have been off free-to-air television totally with the BBC unable to continue its current contract, Parr said: "I think that is true. I think Bernie put this deal together to ensure that the fans would have as much of what they have been enjoying as possible."
He added: "If you are Bernie, and you are looking at the situation where your current partner is stopping – what do you do? I think he has sat back and put together something which is the best that could be done under the circumstances."
Amid scepticism about claims that the Sky/BBC deal could actually boost viewing figures in the UK, as Ecclestone has argued, a number of sponsors have expressed private concern about the impact the deal could have on the sport's popularity in 2012.
McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh insisted, however, that he was not too worried about the situation.
"I don't think there are any [concerns] here. I think that is just speculation," he said when asked if he had any fears of dwindling sponsorship revenue because of smaller viewing figures.
"At the moment we have to do a careful analysis of it, but the view yesterday was that the viewership would increase as a consequence of the amount of time and coverage that F1 will present – because you have got BBC and Sky competing.
"You have got deferred coverage as well, and for a lot of grands prix it will frankly probably be better to have it in the UK a few hours later in any case.
"I think we have to be aware of that. It is important in the UK market that we have as much coverage as possible."
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"If you are Bernie, and you are looking at the situation where your current partner is stopping – what do you do?
Errr...lower the price so that TV companies in the UK can actually afford it. None of the major channels have the money to show F1 anymore, F1 has completely priced itself out of the UK market.
"I don't think there are any [concerns] here. I think that is just speculation," he said when asked if he had any fears of dwindling sponsorship revenue because of smaller viewing figures
I think the BBC/Sky deal will have a minor affect on sponsorship. F1 is worldwide and so are the sponsors/viewers. I'm sure it will continue as if nothing happened at all.
"At the moment we have to do a careful analysis of it, but the view yesterday was that the viewership would increase as a consequence of the amount of time and coverage that F1 will present – because you have got BBC and Sky competing.
The only way to watch F1 in the UK at the moment is on the BBC, therefore anyone interested in F1 already watches it on the BBC including Sky subscribers. How does anyone think that splitting it between the BBC & Sky will add to more viewers?
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Oh I was so annoyed at Parr's comments. Thanks for posting that Wiz - but I think the sponsors will take note, especially if UK is a test-bed for other regions. As you point out, everyone in the country has access to free TV, so moving it to a Pay TV channel can only mean LESS viewers. How anyone can see that any differently is beyond me. If BBC or F1 wanted to have more people watch it, they should have simply shown a highlight reel later in the day ANYHOW!!
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I really wish this were a worldwide issue instead of
a UK one.
Hurt the sponsors pocket books and the entire world viewing
our sport and we probably would'nt be here now.
A man with all the money he'd ever need would sell out
his country for more is beyond me
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I'm still as angry about this as I was Friday morning, but guess what guys? Mr Ecclestone, Mr Murdoch, and every single team principal/team owner doesn't give a rats arse about us. We are only the fans of the sport, so what do we matter. Its a done deal, we may get used to it, but it wasn't done for the money, oh no. We can take Bernie's word for it, it wasn't about the money
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/171761/1/ecclestone_bbcsky_sports_deal_not_just_about_money.html (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/171761/1/ecclestone_bbcsky_sports_deal_not_just_about_money.html)
After reading it the word "greedy lying bastard" spring to mind.
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Tada! Changed my screen name...again. :good:
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:DD :DD :DD
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After reading it the word "greedy lying bastard" spring to mind.
Yup, pretty out of touch I'd say. It's not so important to us to watch it live. HA! Just what does sport mean to this guy? I used to have to watch a few races later after I taped them, but I actually preceded EVERY conversation I had with anyone that they had better not tell me what happened if they already knew. Watching F1 as a highlights show even some of the time would spoil the entire sport for me.
Speaking of watching it live, hey Bernie, why do you even have to GO to the races? What purpose do you actually have to be present at the races? And if it's not about the money, let the BBC broadcast the entire races AS WELL as Sky. I'm sure you could still weasel a few million out of Sky even if they aren't the exclusive portal.
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Tada! Changed my screen name...again. :good:
:good:
I have sent 40+ emails to every relevant email address I could find. Don't hold out much hope of it doing any good though.
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From markfarrell9572's link:
Speaking in a separate interview with the Press Association ahead of this Sunday's Hungarian Grand Prix, Ecclestone also added - remarkably - that 'people will be more happy with this than they are at the moment'.
From his point of view, probably true. Bernie doesn't concider the average fans to be people. Remember, just a few years ago he was pushing the idea of having a race that only VIP's would be allowed to attend.
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Murray Walker's views
Murray Walker reckons Bernie Ecclestone's decision to hand F1 coverage to Sky is just another sign that the F1 supremo is all about the money.
On Friday, it was announced that Sky Sports had secured the rights to Formula One coverage from 2012 to 2018 and would be showing all races, practices and qualifying live on the pay channel.
The BBC, meanwhile, will show half the races live and extended highlights for the remaining 10.
The news has been not gone down well with Formula One fans in the UK, including the 'Voice of F1', Walker, who believes Ecclestone made the decision based purely on financial reasons.
"There is also the question of how the teams and the sponsors will react because teams always want, and Bernie Ecclestone has always instead on, getting the maximum audience in order motivate sponsors to get as much money in," he told the Daily Mail.
"It is typical Bernie. When the BBC lost it to ITV in 1995/96, Bernie phoned the head of sport, Jonathan Martin, and said, 'I am afraid to tell you that you have lost the contact and we are making the announcement in half-an-hour'.
"When Jonathan picked himself up of the floor and said: 'Gosh Bernie you might have given us a chance,' Bernie replied: 'Unless you have been cheating me all these years, you can't pay what they can and there was no point in talking to you.'
"I would imagine that is what happened now. Somebody said once 'Follow the money' and that is what it is all about. Bernie has got to maximise income for CVC, who own the commercial rights, and the BBC have got to make savings.
"Obviously that necessitated, from Bernie's point of view, making a change and Sky were prepared to take it over and pay for it."
The former commentator says he feels for those who can't afford to pay for Sky especially as, sooner rather than later, it will have an impact on Formula One.
"My overriding reaction is one of great sympathy for the people who can't afford Sky or don't have Sky for whatever reason because they are going to be denied 50 percent of the races.
"I have concerns that if the television audience goes down, Formula One itself is going to suffer.
"It all comes down to money. The BBC has lost Formula One before. They lost it in my time and it went to ITV and they did a better job for Formula One then than the BBC had been doing. But now the BBC is doing a better job than ITV did.
"The tragedy of it is that the BBC on a free-to-air basis are doing an absolutely fabulous job and are not only providing the best Formula One coverage that Britain has ever had, but are also providing the best coverage in the world in my view.
"There is a problem in that the BBC are only going to be doing half the races now and they will inevitably spend less money on them. Hypothetically, their coverage will not be as good, which is a great pity."
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I really wish this were a worldwide issue instead of
a UK one.
It is a worldwide issue; some places have already seen this experiment and others will get affected by the likely consequences of this badly-thought out deal.
In Italy, there is free-to-air qualifying and race coverage on Rai. However, for three years Sky Italia provided all sessions (http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/article/1179832030/formula_one/F1business/F1-inks-Sky-TV-deal-in-Italy/view.html) on pay-per-view. They stopped the experiment at the start of 2010. I have not seen a reason for this, but if the deal was working for Sky I somehow doubt the contract would have been dropped.
Also, I'm having trouble working out how Sky will break even on this contract. Assuming the advertising income precisely covers the show's production costs (not entirely reliable, given that ITV couldn't find a title sponsor for the 2008 F1 show), it will take at least half a million people subscribing specifically because of F1 (not counting people who subscribe to Sky Sports for other reasons) for it to break even. That assumes that people will only watch the race. If Sky spreads coverage across two channels to get practise and qualifying out of the way of football, the extra cost of the second channel does not compensate for the likely reduction of viewers between the race and qualifying implied by past experience on free-to-air.
Depending on the spread of interest between those wanting just the race and those wanting all sessions, Sky will need between half a million and 0.88 million people subscribing just for F1 to pay the Bernie fee. Below that, everything else will have to subsidse F1. Are you seriously telling me that's going to happen for longer than Sky can get away with it? Especially with the BBC carrying competing coverage on TV and radio that already has a reputation for excellence among the F1 fraternity?
More likely, this will lead to the third early bail-out by a British broadcaster in three consecutive British F1 contracts. Britain is one of the 4 biggest markets for F1 in the world (the others being Germany, Italy and Brazil). That pattern will make the other media organisations dealing with Bernie sit up and take notice. This applies particularly to free-to-air organisations in countries where pay-per-view currently dominates. It will give them a convincing argument that high TV prices don't work for F1, especially when it puts F1 on unpopular platforms. I can see this leading to a snowball effect where F1 gets much, much less TV money from everyone in a relatively short space of time (2016-2019). Take particular note of Finland (contract after next likely to fall due then, and it's currently on pay TV). The rest of you are more likely to know than me when your individual country TV deals fall due, but keep an eye on anything due to expire in the next 12 months (for the same reason as Finland) or in the 2016-2019 period.
I knew Bernie would sell out Britain for money. I didn't know he'd sell out his capacity to make money for money...
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Compared to many comments here, mine aren't particularly well put, but they are from the heart as a lifelong fan. Anger aside, and putting aside that even the ten races BBC cover live next year will probably be watered down version of what they do now, can't and won't be of the same high quality, I would like to thank the BBC for the last 3 years, their coverage has been amazing, I've loved the forums and what other broadcaster would have given us the same quality we got in Canada. Their hasn't been a weak link in the chain, even Eddie's ramblings are amusing. I won't be watching, but Sky you have a lot to live up to and you will fall short.
So Jake, DC, Eddie, Martin, Lee, Ted and even Legard, you should be very proud of what you have done the last three years and know that no other broadcastewr will live up to it. And can't forget Crofty and Ant and occasionally Chandhokapedia on Fridays.
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There is one bit of good news. BBC still has the radio contract, so you can still hear Crofty, Ant and Chandhok (unless the latter has a race seat of course). You just won't have any pictures to go with their words (unless you find the RTL channel that's allegedly down the back of the Freesat sofa and mute the German commentary).
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RTL's loaded with ads. Try to get SF2 on your satellite.
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That would require messing around with the satellite orientation and losing some of the channels Mum watches (SF2 is 13° East while Freesat is 28° East), so unfortunately that's not an option for me. RTL comes off a satellite on 28° East, like Freesat (though I think they're on different satellites), which is why it may be possible for me to use it as an alternative.
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This is a response I have received from the BBC after emailing them about my concerns about F1 coverage. Reading the response, especially the part I have highlighted, I can't help thinking that this isn't as bad as first thought. Maybe we in the UK have had it way too good for too long, it seems we will still have coverage most countries would be more than glad of. My only concern is who the commentators and presenters will be.
Don't get me wrong, I still think Bernie is still a sell out, money grabbing ****, that has stuff up our good thing up, Eh Darrell. ;) It now just seem a bit better that I thought it was going to be.
Dear Mr M
Thanks for contacting us regarding the BBC's rights to broadcast future seasons of 'Formula One'.
We understand you are unhappy that the BBC won't be showing all races in future seasons due to the sharing of broadcast rights with Sky.
We know that Formula 1 has an extremely passionate following in the UK and that some fans will be disappointed that not all races will be available exclusively live on the BBC from next season.
We are operating in a very tough financial climate and in common with all areas of the BBC, BBC Sport is having to make significant cost savings over the next few years in order to operate within the constraints of the licence fee settlement, therefore we have to make some difficult choices.
We believe this deal represents good value for money for licence fee payers. We retain live coverage of half of the race weekends and we will have extended highlights of the remaining races so we are pleased that all of the action from Formula 1 for the next seven seasons will remain on BBC television. Online coverage of the race weekends that we broadcast will remain the same, and we will carry all the news and reports from the rest of the season. Radio coverage will not change whilst the most popular races - the British Grand Prix, the Monaco Grand Prix and the final race of the season will continue to be broadcast live on BBC One.
We would like to assure you that we’ve registered your complaint on our audience log. This is the internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily for all programme makers and commissioning executives within the BBC, and also their senior management. It ensures that your points, and all other comments we receive, are made available across the BBC.
Thanks again for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Kind Regards
BBC Audience Services
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At least you got a reply David, I never. They really p*ss me off by keep saying 'You can still watch the highlights of the other 10 races.' They can stuff the highlights where the sun does'nt shine !!!!!!!!
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At least you got a reply David, I never. They really p*ss me off by keep saying 'You can still watch the highlights of the other 10 races.' They can stuff the highlights where the sun does'nt shine !!!!!!!!
They replied to me within 12hrs Ian. :DntKnw:
I still think we will have it better than Dare, Cos, etc. Not ideal but what is these days?
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I really should'nt keep on this subject David as I just get madder and madder and sadder and sadder.
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IF, and this is a big IF, this screws up the viewing here in Canada at all (perhaps tape delay) and I am not able to join the chat room for live chat then I consider myself lucky living in Canada where F1 coverage is about as common as NHL highlights on BBC1.
Why?
I'll just download the races in HD (if you know where to look EVERYTHING is available) including the pre and post race coverage and watch at my leisure knowing that I won't have the outcome spoiled.
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I just watched Murray Walker's take on the BBS/Sky deal and I must say I find it hard to believe he was really speaking the whole truth. Much as I love him and he claims to be a freelance journalist I doubt anyone in his position would be willing to call out the BBC and call this anything other than it really is....lining Bernie's pockets with more money.
How much is this move going to save the BBC? I haven't read that anywhere. How much is this going to cost the BBC in lost viewership or do they really care?
Murray is also of the opinion that this is the inevitable end to where major sports are heading in general...a pay-to-watch business model.
I encourage everyone over there to make arrangements to have a single designated Sky subscription and share costs amongst yourselves and gather to watch as a group and not fall into this trap.
The more I think about it, if I remain unaffected here in Canada and am able to watch ALL the races live on our commercial based broadcaster then it's REALLY not fair to you guys over there is it? Somehow I think we may be in for a rough ride here too when next year rolls around as I can't see TSN (our local broadcaster of F1 who just gives us the BBC feed) paying Sky AND the BBC to bring us coverage. I can anly imagine what the ratings are now for F1 here and I doubt they would be willing to spend more money when they could probably run Dog Shows and get just as much viewership! :)
The day ANY sport that I am a fan of goes to a PPV (pay-per-view) model is the day that I no longer watch. It's only sports and the amount of money that I hear about players and drivers getting just pisses me off and I can't justify spending money to support them when it would be much better spent elsewhere.
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At least you got a reply David, I never. They really p*ss me off by keep saying 'You can still watch the highlights of the other 10 races.' They can stuff the highlights where the sun does'nt shine !!!!!!!!
They didn't say where the highlights would be. If they mean BBC3, where they are now, they more or less have stuck them where the sun don't shine...
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They replied to me within 12hrs Ian. :DntKnw:
That is very good, especially given the thousands of complaints the BBC has received on the issue this weekend. It is particularly ironic since it has offered quicker responses to complainants than either Sky or the FOM, despite being the only one of the three to have a good reason for entering the deal.
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I got a reply today from Slater as well. Basically it says PHOOEY to you, you don't count.
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We are sky subscribers, although not to sky sports, just the basic package, earlier this year I noticed 100 euro gone from my account for a service call out that never happened. After a lot of heated phone calls (and I do mean a lot and I do mean heated) the money was refunded. During this time sent me mail, to my old address, an address I hadn't lived in in four years, and which made me even more irate, especially as when we moved to the current house they charged me 75 euro for the move! During one of my arguments with a sky rep I asked if I was to call a service rep where would he go? They said to my old address. I spoke to I think five people in Sky to make sure they finally got my address right. They sent a letter confirming my change of address to.... my old address.
I hate sky, I hate their money grabbing ways, their total lack of customer service, but unfortunately its either them or Chorus (who are unbelievably worse), we have no BT or Virgin.
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This is a response I have received from the BBC after emailing them about my concerns about F1 coverage. Reading the response, especially the part I have highlighted, I can't help thinking that this isn't as bad as first thought. Maybe we in the UK have had it way too good for too long, it seems we will still have coverage most countries would be more than glad of.
Don't get too impressed with BBC. A friend and I sent completely different letters of complaint. Mine asked for specific details of why BBC are cutting sport so hard and yet continue with minority TV and Radio stations (some of which have less listeners in a month than F1 has viewers in one race). We both got the exact same reply as you - word for word except the names!
BBC knew that this would cause uproar and they have had their very expensive PR machine prepare for it in advance.
The man that gave Hong Kong back to the Chinese and is now in charge of BBC claims that the BBC has a duty as a Public Broadcaster to concentrate on the arts, ethical interests, ethnic minorities..... basically high brow minority 'fluffy stuff' and to hell with the majority of licence payers. :crazy:
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According to Autosport's website the BBC is to face questioning in the house of commons over the deal as there is confusion as to how it really came about. BBC say Ecclestone forced their hand , Ecclestone say the deal was thrashed between BBC and Sky and he was in talks with channel 4.
The magazine says that full deffered coverage will take place 3 hours after each race on red button, and with Britain going completely digital by end of year it will be available to all
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Good to hear it should be full race coverage though does anyone know if you can record "the red button" coverage as I know if Rebecca misses Nina and the Neurons and Grandpa in my Pocket she will make my life hell :( hehe
Ju
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No red button can't be recorded. Not with sky plus anyway, but in UK maybe Virgin's box can.
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You can't record red button to my knowledge, but if you look on i Player you can usually download programs that have been on the red button.
I know how you feel Ju, my boys hijack the TV and leave me watching F1 on my laptop in the bedroom. Something wrong there isn't there?
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I know how you feel Ju, my boys hijack the TV and leave me watching F1 on my laptop in the bedroom. Something wrong there isn't there?
Wot!!!- no TV in your bedroom? :swoon: Oh what it is to be young and in love. :D
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No tv in my bedroom either, and I certainly ain't young.
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Haha - TV in the bedroom? My wife said there are two indicators that I want a divorce. Install a TV in the bedroom or grow a beard. Got a three day stubble happening at the moment and the iPad stashed under the bed ;)
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Haha - TV in the bedroom? My wife said there are two indicators that I want a divorce. Install a TV in the bedroom or grow a beard. Got a three day stubble happening at the moment and the iPad stashed under the bed ;)
:DD :DD :DD
No room for a TV in the bedroom IMO.
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No tv in my bedroom either, and I certainly ain't young.
I guess it must be love then, eh Ian?
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:DD :DD :DD :DD :DD
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Yes David it is true... I am being bossed around by a three year old. she well and truly wears the trousers :(
Though I do have her cheering for Fernando already ;)
I don't have a Tv in my room as her toys are now drifting into my bedroom as well now. No room :(
Ju
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I can't even see the video part of Red Button, let alone record it :(
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My Red Button turns my TV off. :DntKnw: :DntKnw:
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:DD :DD Wrong red button Scott.
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My Red Button turns my TV off. :DntKnw: :DntKnw:
That one's bright orange on my remote. Guess they ran out of paint when they got round to mine...
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Huh, the BBC axes half the races for us and now gets a £90m grant to broadcast the BBC World Service to poorer countries. It seems like the establishment really DOES hate the Brits.