GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Alonsofan on September 08, 2013, 08:42:38 PM
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All in all I thought it was a boring race with the exception of some forced overtaking from Lewis. Unfortunately the Red Bull car is just too quick, shame it is driven by the most annoying, luckiest and spoilt man in F1 and not the most talented ;)
Anyway :
Thumbs up :good:
Vettel - -Boring, best car, but did the job
Fernando - Again did all he could with his machinery
Lewis/Kimi - Same comment for both, some good overtaking
Thumbs down
Lewis - (yes you are in both) You messed it up in qualifying. You were the only man who could have beaten Vettel today >:D
Di Resta - Unusual, but oops (Very honest though)
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:good: Up for Hulkenberg too, great race for him.
Zero for the Tiffosi, I don't particularly like Vettel, but he deserved better than boos for a faultless drive.
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I would say thumbs up for Massa but why does
he wait till he thinks he needs a good result to
perform?So thumbs down and look for a new
seat next year.
I found it telling in a Massa interview where before
he had said if he couldn't drive for Ferrari he said
he'd quit,now he says he has other options.I think he knows
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Red Bull / Vettel are in another league, impressive whatever you think of him. Nice to see Mark on the podium, but given the car he has, Webber should be doing that every race.
Ricciardo showed his worth today, good timing. Maybe that boyish grin belies a gritty competitor. If be grins like that in a Toro Rosso I can't wait to see him in the no. 2 car.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/09/ata9erub.jpg)
Great pic tweeted by Webber earlier.
Agree with Ian about the tifosi. The 'attention' they give Vettel is hardly endearing, but very Italian. Superiority complexes always end in tears. I feel for Alonso - the car's not up to scratch, he drives faultlessly and has to be careful not to upset any prancing egos all the time. Will he really see out his retirement at Ferrari? Maybe, might not have a choice.
Lots of decent overtakes from the stricken Hammy and Kimi, generally a very clean race.
Worked for me, Monza rocks.
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It speaks volumes about a person how they deal with success and failure.
The tifosi were not at their best as they booed Vettel on the podium. This is just poor judgement and bad manners. (Does anyone recall those....manners?)
By all means cheer for your man but still give appreciation to a job well done even if it is for another team.
Today's race was not exciting anywhere near the pointy end but some good racing and passing was had midfield. Sad about Hamilton and Raikkonen as they both could have taken a run at Vettel today but stopping so early pooched their days.
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I enjoyed the race. I think that, without the early puncture & radio problems, Hamilton might have overcome his poor quali & taken the race to Vettel.
Good weekend for Hulkenberg, too. Webber did a fair job to get on the podium in spite of a failing gearbox and damaged front wing.
I agree about Massa. I think he may be casting an eye toward WEC or IndyCar.
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Pardon my ignorance but I did not recognize the two men who came up to the podium to interview the winners.
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Pardon my ignorance but I did not recognize the two men who came up to the podium to interview the winners.
John Surtees and Jean Alesi,both ex-Ferrari drivers
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Okay....thanks Dare...being in Canada I would never recognize them as they would never have a picture of either of them in the Canadian or American media.
I'm not sure if the gentlemen were introduced but I could not hear over the loud booing for Vettel that drowned out everything.
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Pardon my ignorance but I did not recognize the two men who came up to the podium to interview the winners.
No sorry Willy I can't pardon your ignorance over Big John (Surtees). :o
Jean Alesi though is far less memorable, even I had to think what his acheivments are - apart from being a Ferrari journeyman. :D
Back to the race though.
Heroes :- Webber, Hulkenberg and surprisingly for me 'Wrecker Roman' :swoon:
Another good, if boring, day at the office :- Vettel, Alonso, Massa.
Zeros :- Ferrari strategists for poorly timed stops, McLaren tech heads for wrong gear choice and Pirelli for bringing rebadged Bridgestone tyres to the race.
- Oh and a special double zero for Brundle during Sky TV commentary, more than once he said the opposite of what was unfolding on the track. ::) I was so fed up I had to switch to BBC; the last straw was when Brundle said the Hulk was unlucky to be held up stuck behind Kimi who was out of place due to early stop for damage, then we had a Sauber team radio message 20secs later telling Hulk to stay with Kimi as he was towing him towards the cars he's actually racing ahead. :crazy:
Really Martin you should have mastered the timing screens by now, perhaps you're past it like Massa. ;)
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I think you will continue to see Vettel booed everywhere. Not just because people don't like to see him win, but because he has become such a thoroughly dislikable person. The epitome of the overbearing Teutonic ego maniac.
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Willy,John didn't mention it but Surtees won WDC's
in F1 and motorcycle as well,not sure what the bike series
was called way back when a few of here were young men.
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I think you will continue to see Vettel booed everywhere. Not just because people don't like to see him win, but because he has become such a thoroughly dislikable person. The epitome of the overbearing Teutonic ego maniac.
What scares me is Vettel was once that smiling youngster
that Daniel is now,I hope he doesn't change
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I quite enjoyed the race, though the DRS was pretty blatantly overdone. It would have been more exciting had the rain not been two hours late, but weather isn't in Bernie's control yet...
Heroes:
Hulkenberg - Wow. Great qualifying performance, and then came 5th in a race where both Red Bulls and both Ferraris finished. If Ferrari hasn't already asked him to join the Scuderia for 2014... ...it should.
Webber - For telling off the people who booed his team-mate. Note to Alonso: this is what a team player looks like.
Hamilton - Yes, his qualifying was poor and his race didn't go much better, but he blamed himself for it. Which is not only more than most drivers would do these days, but is pretty much a first for Lewis. Such character development is to be praised.
Zeroes:
The booers at the track - if it hadn't been for such strong competition in Spa and Hungary, this would have been the third time on the trot (I think they got mentioned in the British Grand Prix, but I mislaid that post). Booing isn't big, clever, classy or appropriate. If a driver's offended you that badly, save it for the fora and social networks, where it doesn't ruin other people's enjoyment of the podium!
Alonso - There is nothing genius-like in shouting at your team over the radio just because you can't keep up with a team-mate cadging a tow off a Red Bull. Oh, and then he hit Webber in the race.
di Resta - It was a real "no leaf clover" weekend. Crashed at Parabolica on Saturday morning, stuck in the middle of Q2 in qualifying (in fairness, Sutil didn't do much better) and then failing to heat up his tyres well enough... ...on the weekend when tyre thermal cameras were added to his car and proved it. I think Paul will just want to forget this one. Though he didn't blame the team this time, hence why he barely made the "zero" list.
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Dare, I know who John Surtees is and am aware of his championship achievements on two and four wheels.
But having said that, as mentioned, due to lack of coverage in North American media, I would not have known him if I passed him on the street.
European motorcycle and car racing has a very long and storied past that is still widely followed by a huge amount of the sporting public and media. Television, print, internet and radio media coverage of these events is varied and expected in all European countries.
Here in North America, if it ain't NASCAR, it ain't covered.
I could not even begin to tell you about a single motorcycle race that occurred in the past or is scheduled to occur over here in the near future. They just don't do it or cover it if it happens.
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I really enjoyed the 'race' it is just a shame that Vettel's Red Bull is so good that it isn't part of the 'race'.
(Picture me with gritted teeth) Vettel drove well!
However, if you watched the on-board of the pole lap, the car looks so good I feel that I could have driven it (well almost). I just hope that the reg changes next year will break the Newey dominance.
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Zero, the grid walk, as much as I like DC and EJ, I'm afraid they just can't match up to Martin Brundle on the grid walk.
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I think you will continue to see Vettel booed everywhere. Not just because people don't like to see him win, but because he has become such a thoroughly dislikable person. The epitome of the overbearing Teutonic ego maniac.
What scares me is Vettel was once that smiling youngster
that Daniel is now,I hope he doesn't change
I had to bite at this one...
Apart from Vettel's performance in Malaysia, and the silly finger-wagging, what exactly has he done to be so disliked? I didn't like the disdainful way he wanted his team to 'get him (Mark) out of the way', but I don't expect to like everything about him anyway.
Another aspect in this I think is his team-mate. If Webber wasn't such a nice chap, would the anti-Vettel hysteria be quite so virulent? I doubt it. The Marko link - Vettel's fault no doubt. Blatent favouritism within the team - also Vettel's fault I guess - if indeed it exists above a normal level.
And 'overbearing Teutonic ego maniac' - now that is funny.
Jealous maybe :P
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I was a fan of Vettel until Sepang. It wasn't just is inexcusable on-track action. It's his apparent inability to understand why people are upset. If he would have sincerely apologized at that time, the whole affair probably would have blown over. Instead, he's continued to behave like an arrogant, spoiled brat.
I do agree that back stabbing one of the most popular drivers on the circuit has amplified fan reaction.
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Still haven't watched the race (it's recorded), but I thought I would dive in on the cheering/booing debate.
In most sports you have both. Very often it is for an official, rather than a player/athlete (can you imagine if they dragged out the race stewards on the podium for a bit of praise? I wonder how often they would be ducking thrown beers and facing screaming, booing mobs.), but also very often for an un-punished athlete who has shown unsportsmanlike or selfish behaviour as in Vettel's case, particularly with his teammate. It can be rude to boo on the podium, but are other fans really offended, or just embarrassed that their hero has done things that have made others angry enough to boo him? Schumacher was booed as well, often deserved. When I was a huge Schumacher fan, I witnessed the booing on occasion and honestly I was simply embarrassed, rarely did I think he didn't deserve it. I don't see how the podium ceremony should be exempt from fan praise or fury, particularly if the place was earned dishonestly. It sounds like he earned the top step in Monza, but the fact that he is unrepentant about his past behaviour has left lingering fury among his competitors fans. Good for them.
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Apart from his behaviour in Malaysia, there was the incident in Turkey, I believe, where he crashed trying to pass Webber, then indicated he felt it was Webber's fault by circling his ear with his finger. There was the incident in Italy, where he was in 5TH or 6TH and got on the radio saying do something, the car is too slow. He is simply a boor, totally unappreciative of the value of the cars he drives, and over estimating his value as a driver.
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I think the Turkey incident could be read either way, but I do appreciate how his arrogant side has come out a number of times - to his detriment, and cumulatively it adds up to something horrid to many people.
I wasn't a Schumacher fan, and the races became boring for me mainly because of him. I certainly wasn't disenchanted with F1, it was just too predictable and dull. Now a similar thing seems to be happening, but for whatever reason I'm on the other side of the argument, and it's one I won't waste too much time trying to win - that isn't gonna happen!
I sincerely hope the competition picks up its game over the next season or two, it would be awful if F1 lost its shine because of one team's dominance. Hopefully next year - if Raikkonen gets the Ferrari seat - then Fernando throwing his toys out of the pram will take some of the headlines away from Seb ;).
Apologies for twisting the thread off the Monza race. Ahhhhh Monza.
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I wasn't a Schumacher fan, and the races became boring for me mainly because of him. I certainly wasn't disenchanted with F1, it was just too predictable and dull. Now a similar thing seems to be happening, but for whatever reason I'm on the other side of the argument, and it's one I won't waste too much time trying to win - that isn't gonna happen!
I sincerely hope the competition picks up its game over the next season or two, it would be awful if F1 lost its shine because of one team's dominance. Hopefully next year - if Raikkonen gets the Ferrari seat - then Fernando throwing his toys out of the pram will take some of the headlines away from Seb ;).
Apologies for twisting the thread off the Monza race. Ahhhhh Monza.
It has a way of working itself out Vintly. ;) McLarens dominace with the Post?Senna years, Williams with Prost/Hill/Villneuve and then the Schumi Ferrari era. The new Regs next year will shake up the order of things and Seb & Red Bull will fighting fo their lives like all the rest of em.
F1 has always had dominant teams and then suddenly the pendulum swings and new heros and names emerge to claim the prizes. As you say it's for the others to catch up to RBR, never fear they will - it's why we all love F1 so much, they never ever give up. :good:
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I read one article where Alonso said he wanted
a team mate that would work at developing the car,
I wonder how much better Lotus would have been
this year if Kimi had better work ethics?Seems on
the outside he wants to do what he does all week
show up on Friday and expect to have a perfect car!IMO
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I'll cut Vettel some slack on the incident in Turkey. He was climbing out of the car after a shunt. He had been racing hard. Under those circumstances, if he wasn't highly emotional I would have suspected that he was a cyborg.
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Emotional, sure. Anger at himself for not sticking a good pass and assuming his teammate would just pull over and wave him on by, but anger at Webber for holding his racing line and then twirling his finger? No, that's not just emotion coming through, it's arrogance.
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I'll cut Vettel some slack on the incident in Turkey. He was climbing out of the car after a shunt. He had been racing hard. Under those circumstances, if he wasn't highly emotional I would have suspected that he was a cyborg.
Frank Williams' perfect driver ;)
As a racing fan, what happens on the track is held separate from what happens off track. Vettel has been agressive to a fault, and a bad teammate, but he's a good racer, and I don't believe he's ever cheated, either by getting away with something by favouritism, or even bending the spirit of the rules to increduality. As long as he's doing that, I can't stay mad at him.
If I want to watch the soap opera aspect of sports, I'll stick to wrestling. (In wrestling, the 'evil' wreslters appreciate boos for what they are... passion in the fans)
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Okay....thanks Dare...being in Canada I would never recognize them as they would never have a picture of either of them in the Canadian or American media.
What were you doing during the 1995 Canadian Grand Prix :D? Jean Alesi won that race, there was a track invasion with delirious fans because he won driving Ferrari number 27 (Gilles Villeneuve's number), and there was joyous celebration all around.
He was much better than a journeyman, he just made some very poor career choices (such as signing for Ferrari instead of Williams for 1991).
Back to the race itself, and, for once, I enjoyed quite a bit of it. Take Vettel out, and it would have been a really exciting race for the lead. Had his car broken down like it used to, we would have had Alonso, Webber, and Massa all battling closely for first place, and it would have been exciting.
Thankfully, we had some midfield fun from Hamilton and Raikkonen which kept me entertained, and there were very few easy DRS passes this time around. While, therefore, there was less overtaking, I didn't mind, because it felt less artificial when it did happen.
I really enjoyed Hulkenberg's performance too. Sauber really needed that result, as it pushes them clear of Willians, whose indifferent season continues. How he found that performance in the Sauber, considering its relative pace all season, I just don't know.
A very poor day for Force India though. They really have suffered since the tyres were changed, and I can't see them holding off McLaren in their championship battle.
I was hoping for some rain, as I felt that this was the only way that Vettel would lose, but sadly we didn't get any. The absence of rain, and the stupidly high finishing rate, were the only two disappointments for me. Everything else made me feel happier, particularly the fact that they still have gravel traps at Monza.
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According to his post race interview, Hulkenberg was equally surprised by the speed of the Sauber. Kaltenborn said they are just now beginning to understand "what the car wants".