GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: cosworth151 on November 29, 2013, 10:51:43 PM
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F1 is considering assigning drivers permanent numbers throughout their careers. The WDC would still have the option of carrying #1. The report says that NASCAR and IndyCar do it that way. That's a mistake. The teams are assigned numbers, not the drivers. The only reason Jeff Gordon has always had #24 is that he's always raced for the same team. Dale Earnhardt Sr. didn't get his iconic #3 until he went to Hendrick. When he drove for Bud Moore Racing he carried that team's #15. (It still breaks my heart to see that number on one of Mikey's Toyotas :sick: )
I can't say that I care for the idea.
http://www.racer.com/f1-teams-pushing-for-permanent-numbers/article/323010/?DCMP=EMC-RACER_DAILY&spMailingID=7486064&spUserID=MjMyNjk2NjU2MQS2&spJobID=101014051&spReportId=MTAxMDE0MDUxS0
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I'm with you on this one Cos. The numbers in F1 matter little apart from denoting where the team finished last year and that should remain as far as I'm concerned. The actual numbers painted on the cars are meaningless as they cannot be made out by spectators either at the track or on TV, the teams don't want to give bigger space as they may lose sponsor revenue.
Leave it alone Jean, stop fiddling at the edges and sort out financial sustainability for the lower end teams.
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Agree,leave it alone,peropd
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I'm all for it. Posted about this last year sometime when something similar came up, but struggling to find it.
John you say the 'numbers in F1 matter little', and that they 'are meaningless as they cannot be made out by spectators'. Exactly - they're CURRENTLY a waste of space. Anyone who cares a jot knows the approximate positions of last year's WCC, and the champ is almost always No.1 so the current system of numbering (all the other) cars is irrelevant.
Colours for teams / numbers for drivers - it makes sense, and it WOULD enable fans to connect more with their driver. He's not just ann off-white helmet with a bit of orange and some logos in a blue and grey car with a load more logos - he's NUMBER 33 and always will be.
It works in other motor sport, and football, and basketball etc etc. It sells merchandise. Yes it would use up some precious advertising space, but it's easily argued that it would bring more fans to the sport, so comparatively it's a GOOD THING from an advertiser's point of view.
The numbers need fiddling with - we agree they are useless now right? What's wrong with this idea? Just because it's being tinkered with doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
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I agree that the numbers need to be legible by the fans. Without that, what difference would it make?
I can't think of a sport where the numbers belong to the players and not the teams. Besides the NASCAR examples I gave, IndyCar assigns numbers to the teams. (Foyt has 14, SFH has 67, etc.) A baseball example, A-Rod had to change from 3 to 13 when he went to the Yankees. The same for football, hockey and oterh stick & ball games
Changing the numbers actually increases merchandise sales. I used to have to buy new Jaguar gear every year to have the numbers correct. I've have the same Wood Brothers #21 gear for ages. ;)
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Iconic sporting non-team numbers: Rossi 46, Simoncelli (RIP) 58, Lorenzo 99, Wayne Gretzky 99 (also). In football (soccer) a number of clubs have retired a number altogether, after it has been worn by a particularly prominent player, including Maradonna's 10 at Napoli, and Raul's 7 at Shalke. The number is forever linked to that player, at least at that club and by their legions of supporters.
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Exactly why A-Rod couldn't have #3. It was worn by the great Babe Ruth. In my opinion, A-Rod couldn't carry Babe's gym bag, much less wear his number.
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I agree that the numbers need to be legible by the fans. Without that, what difference would it make?
I can't think of a sport where the numbers belong to the players and not the teams. Besides the NASCAR examples I gave, IndyCar assigns numbers to the teams. (Foyt has 14, SFH has 67, etc.) A baseball example, A-Rod had to change from 3 to 13 when he went to the Yankees. The same for football, hockey and oterh stick & ball games
Changing the numbers actually increases merchandise sales. I used to have to buy new Jaguar gear every year to have the numbers correct. I've have the same Wood Brothers #21 gear for ages. ;)
No, not hockey. Only time a player has to switch their number is when they move to another team and that number is taken by a current player (who may give it up if the incoming player is a star), or like Vintly said, the number has been retired by the team. Hockey players keep their numbers as long as they like.
I like the idea of assigning permanent numbers. Then I don't feel like such a dolt when I have a Kimi 33 hat or whatever, if he moves teams he will at least still be Kimi 33, but with different colours/logos. Still obvious who I am a fan of. Yes, I guess that does mean it is better for merchandising, but as a hard core fan who has paid a fairly decent chunk of change on F1 and merchandise, I don't feel the need to be ripped off every time a driver changes teams. I may by the new gear, but don't like to think I have to.
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Only time a player has to switch their number is when they move to another team
As I said, the number belongs to the team. Also, in those sports, each team can use every number. In racing, only one team can use a number.
Exactly why A-Rod couldn't have #3. It was worn by the great Babe Ruth. In my opinion, A-Rod couldn't carry Babe's gym bag, much less wear his number.
I agree about A-Rod & the Babe. However, he couldn't use it when he went to the Yankees was because Derek Jeter was already using it (and already playing shortstop).
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The Yankees had quite a few numbers retired,I look for
Jeter to be added to the list too,A-rod no way
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/nyy/history/retired_numbers.jsp
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How can you "retire" 8 twice and "retire" 3 and still let Jeter wear it? :confused:
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Surely though if they keep retiring numbers eventually they'll have to be entirely into 3 digit numbers. :crazy:
Good old Lucky 107 doesn't really ring true now does it? :D
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How can you "retire" 8 twice and "retire" 3 and still let Jeter wear it? :confused:
Jeter is #2 Lonny.I can only guess Berra's #8 was retired
before Dickey's.
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Only time a player has to switch their number is when they move to another team
Bad Cos...you took my quote out of context (are you a journalist in your spare time or something ;) ;) )
The rest of that sentence read and that number is taken by a current player (who may give it up if the incoming player is a star), or like Vintly said, the number has been retired by the team, which means of course the team has final say if the player can bring and use his own number, but again, in hockey, the players, especially if they are big enough stars, usually get their way.
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With all the problems that F1 is currently facing (teams on the verge of bankrupcy, the ring master under threat of prison due to fraud, single car dominance, tyres that fall apart after 10 laps, etc.) why on earth are they worrying about the numbers????
And I respect Vintly's opinion but next year half the driver line up will either be unknown or with new teams so we will all be guessing who is who!
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With all the problems that F1 is currently facing (teams on the verge of bankrupcy, the ring master under threat of prison due to fraud, single car dominance, tyres that fall apart after 10 laps, etc.) why on earth are they worrying about the numbers????
And I respect Vintly's opinion but next year half the driver line up will either be unknown or with new teams so we will all be guessing who is who!
Even if most teams bailed out, Bernie went to prison and it was decided that the world was indeed flat, individual driver numbers are a potential boost for the popularity of the sport, the spectator experience and the overall marketability. It's about the drivers. I don't see anyone 'worrying' about the numbers either - it's just an idea that's been mooted, a decent one in my view that doesn't interfere with anything else in the sport.
As for who's who, there were five rookies in 2013, there'll only be two or three in 2014 I think, so unknown drivers isn't a problem. Numbers for drivers will only serve to make them more recognisable anyway.
I struggle to find anything bad about this idea so will argue the case for it until I'm convinced otherwise. Also quite interested - if it does go ahead - to see who chooses what number and why. I've always had a thing about the number 19 myself….
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With all the problems that F1 is currently facing (teams on the verge of bankrupcy, the ring master under threat of prison due to fraud, single car dominance, tyres that fall apart after 10 laps, etc.) why on earth are they worrying about the numbers????
And I respect Vintly's opinion but next year half the driver line up will either be unknown or with new teams so we will all be guessing who is who!
Even if most teams bailed out, Bernie went to prison and it was decided that the world was indeed flat, individual driver numbers are a potential boost for the popularity of the sport, the spectator experience and the overall marketability. It's about the drivers. I don't see anyone 'worrying' about the numbers either - it's just an idea that's been mooted, a decent one in my view that doesn't interfere with anything else in the sport.
As for who's who, there were five rookies in 2013, there'll only be two or three in 2014 I think, so unknown drivers isn't a problem. Numbers for drivers will only serve to make them more recognisable anyway.
I struggle to find anything bad about this idea so will argue the case for it until I'm convinced otherwise. Also quite interested - if it does go ahead - to see who chooses what number and why. I've always had a thing about the number 19 myself….
:good: :good: :good: 33 piques my interest
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I rather like 69.
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With the teams money problems soon there may be so few teams that
keeping track of the drivers won't be all that hard
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Why restrict them to 2 digit numbers. I can think of some fine three digit numbers. ;)
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I rather like 69.
We are talking about driver's number Ian, not your preferable positions ;)
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So was I BD, don't know what you're alluding to. ::)
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99 please stop ignoring the black flags........ sorry 66 you seem to have a problem!
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99 please stop ignoring the black flags........ sorry 66 you seem to have a problem!
:DD
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I like the idea of individual numbers.
It IS like other sports, where there's a way to quickly identify who's who, and yet it's distinct from other sports where the DRIVER 'owns' the number, not the team.
It will make things easier for fans each season there's musical chairs. It will make things easier for the commentators. I don't blame them for getting everything wrong the first few races of the year, there's no way to tell who's in what car without resorting to memory. But once you know that Kimi is 33, you know the 33 is Kimi.
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I'm not a fan of this idea. The pre-1996 numbering system was very difficult to understand, and that revolved around teams generally keeping to certain traditional numbers for no clear reason. The 1996 to present system is much better. Just leave it as it is.
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What is there to understand? Kimi = 33, Grossjean = 19, Alonso = 06...number simply indicates a drivers name, but just shorter to put on the car than RAIKKONEN. :DntKnw: :DntKnw:
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What is there to understand? Kimi = 33, Grossjean = 19, Alonso = 06...number simply indicates a drivers name, but just shorter to put on the car than RAIKKONEN. :DntKnw: :DntKnw:
Could put the three character FIA code on the cars... RAI, GRO, ALO...
but I like numbers better. Classic part of motorsport. I don't know why F1 cars hide the numbers so much.
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Well all right if we must have permanent drivers numbers can we have them painted in nice big and bold on the top of their skidlids, as well as anywhere else, so that we instantly know who is which - if you see what I mean - when they use the forward facing camera behind the drivers heads.
Too many changes in designs and colours on helmets is for me a bigger issue than numbers,
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If it works, don't fix it. There really is nothing more to say about this ridiculous idea.
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If it works, don't fix it. There really is nothing more to say about this ridiculous idea.
Unless of course you happen to support the idea. |-( |-(
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If it works, don't fix it. There really is nothing more to say about this ridiculous idea.
But it doesn't work, so fix it!
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I think it works just fine. Just look at the color of the camera housing on top of the air box.
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I think it works just fine. Just look at the color of the camera housing on top of the air box.
What colour was Button's camera this year? Last year? The Year before?
I have no clue.
How many races did the commentators call Perez Hamilton, because he was driving a McLaren? If the professionals can't keep it straight, then there's a problem.
(As an aside, Cosworth151, I would expect someone who includes his racing number in his userID as someone who supports the idea of drivers having their own racing number.)
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For every team, the #1 driver has a black camera housing and the #2 driver has a yellow one. It's been that way since they did away with the third car.
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8693/
The 151 was assigned to the team. I owned that team. Most of my career, I drove cars with other numbers.
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For every team, the #1 driver has a black camera housing and the #2 driver has a yellow one. It's been that way since they did away with the third car.
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8693/
The 151 was assigned to the team. I owned that team. Most of my career, I drove cars with other numbers.
Interesting... I read the rule:
Every car must carry its driver’s race number, which must be clearly visible from the front of the car...
There is nothing about 'car' number or 'team' number.
Just driver number.
So this rule is already written to accomodate drivers being assigned permanent numbers from the FIA.
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I really do not care about the numbers and I recognise that association between driver and number has been done before (Mansell was known for his red 5), but equally I do not understand the problem.
I have no problems following drivers and teams now. Even Mrs Monty knows which car is Hamilton (she has a soft spot for him because our kids used to race him in Karts) and this year him and Rosberg often looked very similar. I have realised that I do not know any of the car numbers apart from 1 and 2 and it hasn't bothered me in the least.
It really isn't very difficult - there are only two cars in each livery (I would understand if some people confuse RBR and Torro Rosso) and only two drivers in each team. So you see a car livery and you have a 50% chance of guessing the driver anyway. Then there are other simple indicators (in addition to the cameras) for example during 2013 if the car was black and it was in the wall it would be Grosjean; if the car was dark blue and white with big PDVSA logos and it was in the side of another car it was Maldonado...... easy!
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Then there are other simple indicators (in addition to the cameras) for example during 2013 if the car was black and it was in the wall it would be Grosjean; if the car was dark blue and white with big PDVSA logos and it was in the side of another car it was Maldonado...... easy!
:DD :DD :DD :DD And a few years back if it was red and stopped blocking the track in a hairpin, it was Schumacher ;)
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What is there to understand? Kimi = 33, Grossjean = 19, Alonso = 06...number simply indicates a drivers name, but just shorter to put on the car than RAIKKONEN. :DntKnw: :DntKnw:
It's illogical.
At the moment, we have a system that is easy to explain to anyone who is new to Formula 1. The world champion gets number 1, his team mate gets number 2, everyone else gets a number in the order in which the team they drive for finished in the constructors' championship during the previous season. Easy.
Saying that the drivers just pick their numbers as a reason looks daft in my opinion. Formula 1 is all about order, structure, and sequences. Breaking that rule over driver numbers makes absolutely no sense in my opinion.
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What is there to understand? Kimi = 33, Grossjean = 19, Alonso = 06...number simply indicates a drivers name, but just shorter to put on the car than RAIKKONEN. :DntKnw: :DntKnw:
It's illogical.
At the moment, we have a system that is easy to explain to anyone who is new to Formula 1. The world champion gets number 1, his team mate gets number 2, everyone else gets a number in the order in which the team they drive for finished in the constructors' championship during the previous season. Easy.
Saying that the drivers just pick their numbers as a reason looks daft in my opinion. Formula 1 is all about order, structure, and sequences. Breaking that rule over driver numbers makes absolutely no sense in my opinion.
Not so logical. First question from anyone when you explain it that way is why doesn't the driver who was in 2nd place get the number 2, and so on. And besides, if F1 was logical, it wouldn't be anything like it is today.
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That question is easily answered by the notion of Formula 1 being a team sport. The world champion's number is, and has always been, the only exception. Since 1996 every team, bar the team the world champion's team, is always allocated numbers based on the finishing positions that I outlined above. That's clear and easy to explain. Having drivers effectively pull numbers out of a hat as an alternative serves only to make the sport look ridiculous in my opinion.
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No, it's still not easy, then you have to explain to the casual fan that F1 is actually 2 separate championships, and that although the driver with the #1 is indeed the World Drivers Champion, the rest of the numbers refer to where the teams landed in the other championship, the WCC. To many, that makes no sense, any more than does the driver who has the #2 may have it, despite coming in 4th or 5th in the WDC...seems a bit unfair, if not contrived to the casual fan.
This whole discussion is simply about personalizing the drivers, and perhaps bringing them in a way closer to the fans, and like I said way down this thread, for me it would mean I could wear a #33 jersey in Lotus colours and still be identified with Kimi even though he is now with Ferrari. It's really quite trivial, and is based on people's personal preferences and opinions and how they want to identify their favourite drivers as fans and how they want to be identified as fans themselves...there really isn't a right or wrong side in this.
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I've always thought that the drivers number should be where they finished in the WDC, as you say Scott, seems unfair that the driver finishing 2nd may have to have a lower ranking number.
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What is there to understand? Kimi = 33, Grossjean = 19, Alonso = 06...number simply indicates a drivers name, but just shorter to put on the car than RAIKKONEN. :DntKnw: :DntKnw:
It's illogical.
At the moment, we have a system that is easy to explain to anyone who is new to Formula 1. The world champion gets number 1, his team mate gets number 2, everyone else gets a number in the order in which the team they drive for finished in the constructors' championship during the previous season. Easy.
Saying that the drivers just pick their numbers as a reason looks daft in my opinion. Formula 1 is all about order, structure, and sequences. Breaking that rule over driver numbers makes absolutely no sense in my opinion.
F1 is the only sport in the world that I know of with rotating numbers
In most team sports, each team gets their own set of numbers which can be duplicated. If a player changes teams, it's possible to take their number, but not always guaranteed. (I know that in North America, players are often willing to surrender their number if a more famous teammate requests it)
In other motorsports series, the numbers are assigned to the team. If Ferrari was ALWAYS 3/4, McLaren ALWAYS 5/6, Red Bull ALWAYS 7/8 etc. that's logical too.
But changing numbers each year just seems random.
Look at 2010. Lewis Hamilton had number 2, that must mean in 2009 his teammate won the championship. Except in 2009 his teammate was Heikki Kovalenian, who was number 2... but finished in 12th position. But of course we all know that Jenson Button was the champion in 2009 for Brawn, which means that Brawn was assigned numbers 3 and 4. Except that Brawn didn't exist in 2010, so Mercedes instead had numbers 3 and 4, despite being a new entry in F1. We know that a new entry in F1 loses it's number, because Sauber's drivers put the team in 6th place in 2009, yet were assigned numbers 22 and 23 because it was a new entry, despite running under the same name. And let's not forget Button's poor 2009 teammate, finishing in third place and being relegated to number 9 for 2010.
You can say keep the current system because of tradition. But don't for a second claim there's logic at play here. There isn't.
But wait... there's more. Each time a driver/team changes numbers, you have to buy new merchandise. So the current system is basically designed to get cash from fans. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but seems like an odd thing to stand up for)
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I've always thought that the drivers number should be where they finished in the WDC, as you say Scott, seems unfair that the driver finishing 2nd may have to have a lower ranking number.
I think it's appropriate right now. After all, who was most obviously the #2 driver this season? Webber! No doubt that Barricello was #2 at Ferrari all those seasons. I think they earned that number the hard way. ;)
Mercedes 2010 was just Brawn with silver paint and a bigger checkbook. Sauber had to come in as a new entry because they missed the deadline, due to BMW's messing about.
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Having drivers effectively pull numbers out of a hat as an alternative serves only to make the sport look ridiculous in my opinion.
Does MotoGP look ridiculous? The numbers associated with the drivers become part of their identity, part of their unique livery, part of them. It's worked for decades and no one has a problem with it - far from it. The numbers are championed by the fans and pundits alike, and serve to bolster and reinforce the individual persona of a competitor in a sport where helmets make everyone have the same damn look on their face. It helps!
Anyway, it's a GOOD THING that we have different opinions, but I'm not going to argue the point further. But, I'm so confident that I will offer a bet to all you naysayer number-dodging scaredey-cats. £1 says individual numbers WILL come in. If you bet against me and win, I will pay you £2. If you lose you pay me only £1. WOW man this is big money how can you refuse I know I know start measuring up for a new pool in the yard.
* One bet per person, maximum number of bets at my discretion.
** Subject to Wizzo's approval.
*** Don't try this at home, do have a large cocktail.
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mmmmm sounds like Vintly is up for a bit of fun.
V can you please start a new thread in the 'members' area to discuss this further. Obviously this between yourself and anyone who chooses to partake in this friendly challenge.
Wiz
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Does MotoGP look ridiculous? The numbers associated with the drivers become part of their identity, part of their unique livery, part of them. It's worked for decades and no one has a problem with it - far from it. The numbers are championed by the fans and pundits alike, and serve to bolster and reinforce the individual persona of a competitor in a sport where helmets make everyone have the same damn look on their face. It helps!
Each to his own. MotoGP is quite different in a lot of respects other than just less wheels, there are no team orders for a start and there are clearly two classes in the field. There is also less money about in motorcycle racing than cars so each rider needs to monetise his own identity, this is much easier with permanent numbers and their lords & masters realise this.
In F1 there is much more tension about the earnings from a driver's image and activities, didn't Lewis refer to this as a reason to move to Merc. Most of F1 merchandising is team based, albeit with named drivers kit part of the equation, can't see driver owned permanent numbers sitting comfortably with team merchandising departments or their lawyers.
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mmmmm sounds like Vintly is up for a bit of fun.
V can you please start a new thread in the 'members' area to discuss this further. Obviously this between yourself and anyone who chooses to partake in this friendly challenge.
Wiz
Will do Wizzo :good:
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If that's true John, as usual, F1 can only see one side of the marketing possibilities. From their pricing strategies - a famous salesman once said "Volume, Volume, Volume", but F1 can only see maximum profit for each sale. Drop the pricing and give the team sponsors much wider exposure by getting more merchandise worn by fans.
Broadcast strategies - build an internet backbone by creating high quality internet streaming at a reasonable price, while denying those rights to the TV broadcasters in their TV negotiations...TV is sadly dying, at least how we get TV, so prepare for what comes next, which is going to be a form of PPV internet broadcasting. F1 has their broadcast rights tied up so tightly by TV, that they are going to miss the boat when it all changes, and the big winners are going to be the broadcasters.
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Actually, I think that Moto GP does look ridiculous with the numbering system that it uses. Why should drivers always have the same number? To me, it's illogical. Numbers should be determined by championship position, not because a driver chooses it.
I disagree with all the arguments put forward about the current system being illogical. It's very clear to explain once you remember that F1 is a team sport. The system works very well when you bear that in mind. The teams are allocated the numbers not the drivers, so the numbers belong to the cars. The only exception to this is the number 1.
As for the idea that it's solely down to tradition that this format is being stuck to, that's not the case. This numbering system has, as I said, only be in place since 1996. That doesn't make it a traditional system. Indeed, the traditional system was completely different, with most teams retaining the same numbers on their cars for year after year.
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Here's absolute proof that it's a very bad idea - Jean Todt likes it!
"I am very supportive of that," Jean Todt, the continuing FIA president, is quoted by France's L'Equipe. "I think it would be nice if the drivers keep the same race number, with the exception of the world champion who always displays the No. 1. When I watch a Grand Prix now, I cannot see the name or the number of the driver.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20131209/f1/131209860#ixzz2n0tFppyn
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with the exception of the world champion who always displays the No. 1. When I watch a Grand Prix now, I cannot see the name or the number of the driver.
Why oh why do you let them keep changing their helmets then Mr President? :P
Much easier to recognise them from their skidlids, as long as they remain constant of course. :D
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with the exception of the world champion who always displays the No. 1. When I watch a Grand Prix now, I cannot see the name or the number of the driver.
Why oh why do you let them keep changing their helmets then Mr President? :P
Much easier to recognise them from their skidlids, as long as they remain constant of course. :D
Are you suggesting they should be issued a helmet colour that cannot change throughout their career?
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with the exception of the world champion who always displays the No. 1. When I watch a Grand Prix now, I cannot see the name or the number of the driver.
Why oh why do you let them keep changing their helmets then Mr President? :P
Much easier to recognise them from their skidlids, as long as they remain constant of course. :D
Are you suggesting they should be issued a helmet colour that cannot change throughout their career?
Nope, just no change during the season once it's begun. ;)
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Looks like we're lumbered with this idea too :(.
I'm really fed up, and the new season hasn't even started yet.
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I'm not sure, social media is rife with people complaining about it. I thought the Medal system was a given a couple years ago as well, but thankfully that was yanked at the last minute.
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I'm not sure, social media is rife with people complaining about it. I thought the Medal system was a given a couple years ago as well, but thankfully that was yanked at the last minute.
Still don't know why people are so attached to an arbitrary numbering system that is barely used.
I'd be surprised if there is a single post on all of GP Wizard referring to a driver, team or car by number, and only number.
Even if you don't like numbers for drivers, surely permanent numbers for teams makes sense.
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Embrace the numbers. Unshackle yourself from these chains of resistance. There's nothing to be afraid of. Save your energy my friends, for issues of more import, and examine your hearts. You will find there, something special, something unique and something personal beyond compare. Not so dissimilar to a racing driver's number.
Let it be and rejoice!
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You're right of course Vintly, there are far more things to worry about than having to think of drivers as mere numbers. ;)
When I watch MotoGP I never think there goes 93 passing 26 or 46 in pursuit of 99. :crazy: I just know it's the factory Yamahas & Hondas giving it large, as usual at the front of things. :D
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Doesn't really make a lot of difference when you can't see the numbers anyway. How about they put an 18" high number on each wing endplate? Then we can worry about what the number is.
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I'm not sure, social media is rife with people complaining about it. I thought the Medal system was a given a couple years ago as well, but thankfully that was yanked at the last minute.
Still don't know why people are so attached to an arbitrary numbering system that is barely used.
I'd be surprised if there is a single post on all of GP Wizard referring to a driver, team or car by number, and only number.
Even if you don't like numbers for drivers, surely permanent numbers for teams makes sense.
The site jumped around on me when I replied to Irisado, I thought I was on the Double Points thread. No, I think driver numbers are being widely considered a good idea, but the dbl points has very little support among fan sites.
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Not many of the drivers stick around long
enough for permanent numbers.
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Ya think? I guess an F1 drivers career is about on par with the average
footballer soccer or hockey player...