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Author Topic: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.  (Read 13137 times)

Offline Scott

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2013, 12:24:49 PM »
If it works, don't fix it.  There really is nothing more to say about this ridiculous idea.

Unless of course you happen to support the idea.   |-( |-(
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

vintly

  • Guest
Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2013, 02:32:44 PM »
If it works, don't fix it.  There really is nothing more to say about this ridiculous idea.

But it doesn't work, so fix it!

Offline cosworth151

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2013, 02:48:15 PM »
I think it works just fine. Just look at the color of the camera housing on top of the air box.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2013, 03:10:30 PM »
I think it works just fine. Just look at the color of the camera housing on top of the air box.

What colour was Button's camera this year?  Last year?  The Year before?

I have no clue.

How many races did the commentators call Perez Hamilton, because he was driving a McLaren?  If the professionals can't keep it straight, then there's a problem.

(As an aside, Cosworth151, I would expect someone who includes his racing number in his userID as someone who supports the idea of drivers having their own racing number.)

Offline cosworth151

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2013, 03:18:51 PM »
For every team, the #1 driver has a black camera housing and the #2 driver has a yellow one. It's been that way since they did away with the third car.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8693/

The 151 was assigned to the team. I owned that team. Most of my career, I drove cars with other numbers.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2013, 03:33:49 PM »
For every team, the #1 driver has a black camera housing and the #2 driver has a yellow one. It's been that way since they did away with the third car.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8693/

The 151 was assigned to the team. I owned that team. Most of my career, I drove cars with other numbers.

Interesting... I read the rule:

Quote
Every car must carry its driver’s race number, which must be clearly visible from the front of the car...

There is nothing about 'car' number or 'team' number.

Just driver number.

So this rule is already written to accomodate drivers being assigned permanent numbers from the FIA.

Offline Monty

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2013, 05:04:27 PM »
I really do not care about the numbers and I recognise that association between driver and number has been done before (Mansell was known for his red 5), but equally I do not understand the problem.
I have no problems following drivers and teams now. Even Mrs Monty knows which car is Hamilton (she has a soft spot for him because our kids used to race him in Karts) and this year him and Rosberg often looked very similar. I have realised that I do not know any of the car numbers apart from 1 and 2 and it hasn't bothered me in the least.
It really isn't very difficult - there are only two cars in each livery (I would understand if some people confuse RBR and Torro Rosso) and only two drivers in each team. So you see a car livery and you have a 50% chance of guessing the driver anyway. Then there are other simple indicators (in addition to the cameras) for example during 2013 if the car was black and it was in the wall it would be Grosjean; if the car was dark blue and white with big PDVSA logos and it was in the side of another car it was Maldonado...... easy!

Offline Scott

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2013, 05:54:47 PM »
Then there are other simple indicators (in addition to the cameras) for example during 2013 if the car was black and it was in the wall it would be Grosjean; if the car was dark blue and white with big PDVSA logos and it was in the side of another car it was Maldonado...... easy!
:DD :DD :DD :DD  And a few years back if it was red and stopped blocking the track in a hairpin, it was Schumacher  ;)
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Irisado

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2013, 06:50:33 PM »
What is there to understand?  Kimi = 33, Grossjean = 19, Alonso = 06...number simply indicates a drivers name, but just shorter to put on the car than RAIKKONEN.  :DntKnw: :DntKnw:

It's illogical.

At the moment, we have a system that is easy to explain to anyone who is new to Formula 1.  The world champion gets number 1, his team mate gets number 2, everyone else gets a number in the order in which the team they drive for finished in the constructors' championship during the previous season.  Easy.

Saying that the drivers just pick their numbers as a reason looks daft in my opinion.  Formula 1 is all about order, structure, and sequences.  Breaking that rule over driver numbers makes absolutely no sense in my opinion.
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Scott

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2013, 06:54:24 PM »
What is there to understand?  Kimi = 33, Grossjean = 19, Alonso = 06...number simply indicates a drivers name, but just shorter to put on the car than RAIKKONEN.  :DntKnw: :DntKnw:

It's illogical.

At the moment, we have a system that is easy to explain to anyone who is new to Formula 1.  The world champion gets number 1, his team mate gets number 2, everyone else gets a number in the order in which the team they drive for finished in the constructors' championship during the previous season.  Easy.

Saying that the drivers just pick their numbers as a reason looks daft in my opinion.  Formula 1 is all about order, structure, and sequences.  Breaking that rule over driver numbers makes absolutely no sense in my opinion.

Not so logical.  First question from anyone when you explain it that way is why doesn't the driver who was in 2nd place get the number 2, and so on.  And besides, if F1 was logical, it wouldn't be anything like it is today.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Irisado

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2013, 06:57:12 PM »
That question is easily answered by the notion of Formula 1 being a team sport.  The world champion's number is, and has always been, the only exception.  Since 1996 every team, bar the team the world champion's team, is always allocated numbers based on the finishing positions that I outlined above.  That's clear and easy to explain.  Having drivers effectively pull numbers out of a hat as an alternative serves only to make the sport look ridiculous in my opinion.
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Scott

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2013, 07:09:43 PM »
No, it's still not easy, then you have to explain to the casual fan that F1 is actually 2 separate championships, and that although the driver with the #1 is indeed the World Drivers Champion, the rest of the numbers refer to where the teams landed in the other championship, the WCC.  To many, that makes no sense, any more than does the driver who has the #2 may have it, despite coming in 4th or 5th in the WDC...seems a bit unfair, if not contrived to the casual fan. 

This whole discussion is simply about personalizing the drivers, and perhaps bringing them in a way closer to the fans, and like I said way down this thread, for me it would mean I could wear a #33 jersey in Lotus colours and still be identified with Kimi even though he is now with Ferrari. It's really quite trivial, and is based on people's personal preferences and opinions and how they want to identify their favourite drivers as fans and how they want to be identified as fans themselves...there really isn't a right or wrong side in this.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Ian

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2013, 07:24:20 PM »
I've always thought that the drivers number should be where they finished in the WDC, as you say Scott, seems unfair that the driver finishing 2nd may have to have a lower ranking number.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline Jericoke

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2013, 08:30:03 PM »
What is there to understand?  Kimi = 33, Grossjean = 19, Alonso = 06...number simply indicates a drivers name, but just shorter to put on the car than RAIKKONEN.  :DntKnw: :DntKnw:

It's illogical.

At the moment, we have a system that is easy to explain to anyone who is new to Formula 1.  The world champion gets number 1, his team mate gets number 2, everyone else gets a number in the order in which the team they drive for finished in the constructors' championship during the previous season.  Easy.

Saying that the drivers just pick their numbers as a reason looks daft in my opinion.  Formula 1 is all about order, structure, and sequences.  Breaking that rule over driver numbers makes absolutely no sense in my opinion.

F1 is the only sport in the world that I know of with rotating numbers

In most team sports, each team gets their own set of numbers which can be duplicated.  If a player changes teams, it's possible to take their number, but not always guaranteed.  (I know that in North America, players are often willing to surrender their number if a more famous teammate requests it)

In other motorsports series, the numbers are assigned to the team.  If Ferrari was ALWAYS 3/4, McLaren ALWAYS 5/6, Red Bull ALWAYS 7/8 etc. that's logical too.

But changing numbers each year just seems random.

Look at 2010.  Lewis Hamilton had number 2, that must mean in 2009 his teammate won the championship.  Except in 2009 his teammate was Heikki Kovalenian, who was number 2... but finished in 12th position.  But of course we all know that Jenson Button was the champion in 2009 for Brawn, which means that Brawn was assigned numbers 3 and 4.  Except that Brawn didn't exist in 2010, so Mercedes instead had numbers 3 and 4, despite being a new entry in F1.  We know that a new entry in F1 loses it's number, because Sauber's drivers put the team in 6th place in 2009, yet were assigned numbers 22 and 23 because it was a new entry, despite running under the same name.  And let's not forget Button's poor 2009 teammate, finishing in third place and being relegated to number 9 for 2010.

You can say keep the current system because of tradition.  But don't for a second claim there's logic at play here.  There isn't.


But wait... there's more.  Each time a driver/team changes numbers, you have to buy new merchandise.  So the current system is basically designed to get cash from fans.  (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but seems like an odd thing to stand up for)

Offline cosworth151

Re: F1 Considers Permanent Driver Numbers.
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2013, 08:36:55 PM »
I've always thought that the drivers number should be where they finished in the WDC, as you say Scott, seems unfair that the driver finishing 2nd may have to have a lower ranking number.

I think it's appropriate right now. After all, who was most obviously the #2 driver this season? Webber! No doubt that Barricello was #2 at Ferrari all those seasons. I think they earned that number the hard way.   ;)

Mercedes 2010 was just Brawn with silver paint and a bigger checkbook. Sauber had to come in as a new entry because they missed the deadline, due to BMW's messing about.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

 


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