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Author Topic: The Current State of Formula 1  (Read 10476 times)

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2014, 09:03:36 PM »
Irisado this are the results of design engineers spending hours in different CFD diagrams, making all sorts of simulation model. When a car fails, its not just the people who in the pit garage are disappointed, but also people in the factory, who works tireless hours to prepare the cars from less than scratch. As because unreliability has many factors, watching the a car fail means, either team under-estimated the factor or completely ignored it, and other words failed. I can't get happy, excited because somebody failed  :nono:

They're all equally disappointed when their driver takes himself out of the race through a collision or a spin, so I don't see the difference.  Disappoint is part of the game in sport, you win some you lose some.  Look back through the history of the sport, through numerous seasons which have been far more exciting than the awful racing we were served up with during 2013, and see if you can tell me when a single season was ruined by unreliability.

I've watched every Formula 1 season in full since 1995, and I've watched older races from previous seasons online, and I can't ever recall having thought that unreliability has ruined a season.  Sometimes people have really enjoyed watching teams fail badly on the reliability front.  1999 is one example.  BAR said that they would win their first race, poached lots of staff from other teams, and generally upset a lot of people in the paddock with their pre-season attitude and talk.  The fact that they then had a terrible season, with appalling reliability, and scored no points actually gave their management some much needed humility.

So mean to say when you see someone crash or spin out it makes you happy, excited? (Many people cheered in the British Grand Prix when Vettel retired, so even if you do that, you are not alone  :D )

As because of TV - viewership time, which is one of the most important feature, that a team has to put on the table to lure sponsor, may be teams should not be blamed, for not pushing the limits or trying to make more reliable cars. Advancement of simulation data I believe does play an important role in terms of improving reliability.

Unreliability should be taken as a part & parcel of a sports where machinery plays as an integral role, but asking cars to be unreliable will be asking the teams not doing their job properly.
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

vintly

  • Guest
Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2014, 10:52:52 PM »
Because both are needed.  Combine unreliability with more demanding circuits and you'll have more unpredictable results.  One without the other isn't enough in my opinion, especially in view of the fact that the quality of drivers has gone up over the years, so fewer mistakes are made even on tracks which still punish the unwary, such as Monte Carlo.

• Fewer mistakes because better quality drivers - good, progress
• Fewer problems with car reliability - good, progress

You might as well say let's use worse drivers to make the races more unpredictable. Honestly, it's backwards thinking.


Offline Irisado

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2014, 11:15:54 PM »
So mean to say when you see someone crash or spin out it makes you happy, excited? (Many people cheered in the British Grand Prix when Vettel retired, so even if you do that, you are not alone  :D )

No, it doesn't make me happy, especially if I wanted said driver to do well, but it does make things more exciting.

Quote
Unreliability should be taken as a part & parcel of a sports where machinery plays as an integral role, but asking cars to be unreliable will be asking the teams not doing their job properly.

They did their job properly in the 1990s and early 2000s and yet there was unreliability, so I don't buy that.  What didn't exist back then was long life gearboxes and engines and severely restricted rev limits.  That's the difference.

• Fewer mistakes because better quality drivers - good, progress
• Fewer problems with car reliability - good, progress

You might as well say let's use worse drivers to make the races more unpredictable. Honestly, it's backwards thinking.

I disagree.

The closer you get to perfection the more stale and boring the racing becomes.  Drivers do still make mistakes, thankfully, otherwise it would be really dull, but they're just as big a set of mistakes that were perhaps made in the past.  I'm not saying that we should have really poor drivers, like Yuji Ide and Jean-Denis Déletraz, in Formula 1, but it's becoming too easy.  It's probably a reflection of the tracks in conjunction with rising standards though, and I think you and I agree about the problem with the circuits.

Bullet proof reliability throughout the entire grid isn't progress, unless a sterile environment where everything works perfectly is your cup of tea.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 11:20:29 PM by Irisado »
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline cosworth151

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2014, 12:14:28 PM »
I think it's a combination of the long life, rev limited drive trains and the fact that F1 keeps moving closer and closer to being a spec series. The mechanical failures occur when teams try new ideas and push their equipment to the limit. Neither is possible under the current regulations.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Irisado

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2014, 12:59:25 PM »
Yep, very well summed up there.  This is what I don't like about Formula 1 now.  It's supposed to be a diverse sport, yet they're trying to homogenise too many aspects of the cars.
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2014, 01:59:59 PM »
Whether the need is real or not, it's all done in the name of cost cutting. Truly unlimited racing, like F1 used to be, would probably result in a series like WEC, where Audi has had minimal competition for years. They may have gone too far now, I don't like it much.
Lonny

Offline cosworth151

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2014, 02:27:23 PM »
Here's what strikes me as the most telling thing about the current state of the sport:

We are all hard-core F1 fans. We not only watch the races (and quai and free practice), we follow the sport year round. Many of us have been fans for years, even decades. We study it. We gather here to discuss the sport. If F1 has a core fan base, we're part of it.

And, judging by this thread, it looks that most of us are not particularly happy with what's going on in F1 these days. I don't think that's a very good sign.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Irisado

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2014, 02:36:23 PM »
Whether the need is real or not, it's all done in the name of cost cutting.

Yes, but has it truly helped?  If cost cutting were working, why did Hispania pull out, why is Tony Fernandes threatening to pull out, why is the gap between the small teams and the midfield still so large, and why do so few (if any) new teams want to bid for entries?

All of these problems are the same as they were when costs spiralled out of control during the manufacturer era, so the engine and gearbox rules clearly don't work, and they're killing diversity to boot.  The teams need a lot more prize money, and that means more access to television revenue.

Here's what strikes me as the most telling thing about the current state of the sport:

We are all hard-core F1 fans. We not only watch the races (and quai and free practice), we follow the sport year round. Many of us have been fans for years, even decades. We study it. We gather here to discuss the sport. If F1 has a core fan base, we're part of it.

And, judging by this thread, it looks that most of us are not particularly happy with what's going on in F1 these days. I don't think that's a very good sign.

This is true.  Regardless of the differences between all of us about how to best fix the problems with Formula 1, we're all concerned one way or another about the current state of the sport.  Changes are needed.
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2014, 06:30:28 PM »
@Irisado : Another thing you forgot to mention Irisado, the unbelievable improvement of computation ability of the machine, the ability to simulate minute details of each and every race, which I believe does play an important part in the improvement of the reliability.

@Cossie : I agree with you regarding the cost cutting, and to be honest they have only made things more complicated. As Luca told before, they have stopped people from actual testing, yet they have forced teams to invest heavily on the simulators. There have always the question mark of spending regarding aerodynamics, which these days are astounding. But hardly there have been any decisions in last few years taken to address this things, instead horrific decisions like double pointer races are being introduced, DRS being implemented so that there is no question of procession, but hardly there is anything that will facilitate the actual racing.

If you have to remain as the pinnacle of the sports, you have to change constantly, and F1 has in its glorious 60 years, but nowadays it seems like the changes are more of a promoter pleaser, than actually improving racing, changes to satisfy the board of CVC with improved profit margin, rather than taking racing to next level. In F1 there will be changes, what worries me is that these are not in the best interest of either teams or fans, but rather for the interest few board-members, this philosophy scares me.
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

 


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