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Author Topic: The Current State of Formula 1  (Read 12840 times)

Offline Scott

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2014, 08:58:23 PM »
I'd prefer if they put in sprinkler systems at all the desert tracks and had them go off randomly...   :DD :DD
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2014, 05:44:53 AM »
That's what Bernie wanted. You gone over to the Dark Side Scott?
Lonny

Offline Scott

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2014, 06:46:48 AM »
Always had a soft spot for rain in the desert...

It's one thing I can't stand about desert races - never, nada, 0% chance of rain. 
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2014, 07:55:12 AM »
Always had a soft spot for rain in the desert...

It's one thing I can't stand about desert races - never, nada, 0% chance of rain.

You want to take away a few of the sure GG points Scotty  |-( |-(
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline Irisado

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2014, 11:36:53 AM »
This is moot, as for you it spices things up in an interesting way, for me it's not part of racing. Yes reliability will always play a part, however small, but when it negatively affects a driver or team, it's just a shame because then they're not racing anymore.

Building a reliable car is part of the challenge of Formula 1 racing, so we clearly have different expectations ;).

Quote
For me the only variables required are driver talent and overall car speed. Everything else should be equal - that's a level playing field. Each to his own.

Then why watch Formula 1?  GP2 and GP3 are far more akin to the type of racing that fits this criteria.

You missed a guy from Germany winning in Monza for Toro Rosso Irisado  :D

I can't think why :P.

Quote
"Unreliability spices things up" forgive me if I am reading it in the wrong way, but a team of mechanics putting relentless effort to prepare a car to race, and that car does not reach the flag because somebody made a mistake while preparing the car, resulting no more running of the car, that will make me feel thrilled, excited?spice things up for me? :DntKnw: :DntKnw:

It usually doesn't have much to do with how the mechanics assemble the car.  Unreliability was down to all sorts of factors.  Car design and packaging, heat on race day, engine cooling, and even how long the cars were held on the start line for in some instances.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline cosworth151

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2014, 04:34:06 PM »
Quote
Less speed equals less exciting

So, F1 is less exciting than 195 mph NASCAR Cup, 230 mph oval track IndyCars and 300+ mph Top Fuel Dragsters?

Most of us look back fondly to the days of Clark, Moss, Fangio and Stewart. The racing was much better, but the cars were slower.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2014, 07:57:04 PM »

It usually doesn't have much to do with how the mechanics assemble the car.  Unreliability was down to all sorts of factors.  Car design and packaging, heat on race day, engine cooling, and even how long the cars were held on the start line for in some instances.

Irisado this are the results of design engineers spending hours in different CFD diagrams, making all sorts of simulation model. When a car fails, its not just the people who in the pit garage are disappointed, but also people in the factory, who works tireless hours to prepare the cars from less than scratch. As because unreliability has many factors, watching the a car fail means, either team under-estimated the factor or completely ignored it, and other words failed. I can't get happy, excited because somebody failed  :nono:
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline Irisado

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2014, 12:47:09 AM »
Irisado this are the results of design engineers spending hours in different CFD diagrams, making all sorts of simulation model. When a car fails, its not just the people who in the pit garage are disappointed, but also people in the factory, who works tireless hours to prepare the cars from less than scratch. As because unreliability has many factors, watching the a car fail means, either team under-estimated the factor or completely ignored it, and other words failed. I can't get happy, excited because somebody failed  :nono:

They're all equally disappointed when their driver takes himself out of the race through a collision or a spin, so I don't see the difference.  Disappoint is part of the game in sport, you win some you lose some.  Look back through the history of the sport, through numerous seasons which have been far more exciting than the awful racing we were served up with during 2013, and see if you can tell me when a single season was ruined by unreliability.

I've watched every Formula 1 season in full since 1995, and I've watched older races from previous seasons online, and I can't ever recall having thought that unreliability has ruined a season.  Sometimes people have really enjoyed watching teams fail badly on the reliability front.  1999 is one example.  BAR said that they would win their first race, poached lots of staff from other teams, and generally upset a lot of people in the paddock with their pre-season attitude and talk.  The fact that they then had a terrible season, with appalling reliability, and scored no points actually gave their management some much needed humility.

Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2014, 05:34:19 AM »
On the other hand, unreliability cost Clark a couple of WDCs. He scored 25 wins and only 1 second and 6 thirds in his career. He was famous for winning or DNFing in the always fragile Lotus.
Lonny

Offline cosworth151

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2014, 12:36:26 PM »
Many people, including me, think that the fragility of Chapman's Lotuses (Loti?) also cost Clark his life.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline John S

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Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2014, 01:21:17 PM »
Many people, including me, think that the fragility of Chapman's Lotuses (Loti?) also cost Clark his life.

You're probably right Cos, however motor racing at that time carried that fundamental risk for all drivers. Chapman just pushed the boundaries a bit more than most. 

Unfortunately it's memories of drivers dying that has ultimately led to the inviolable safety environment that F1 operates in now. I suggest it's this that stifles real open competition in F1, only highly managed risk is allowable now.

Never mind the change to smaller turbo engines on the grounds of making F1 more road relevant, it's really the health and safety bods who dictate :- what cars are made of, where they can race, how fast, etc. etc. ad infinitum. 

I'm not saying I want a return to Clark's era, but loosening the ever tightening safety reigns might not be a bad thing.

   

 
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

vintly

  • Guest
Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2014, 02:03:55 PM »
Quote
Less speed equals less exciting

So, F1 is less exciting than 195 mph NASCAR Cup, 230 mph oval track IndyCars and 300+ mph Top Fuel Dragsters?

Most of us look back fondly to the days of Clark, Moss, Fangio and Stewart. The racing was much better, but the cars were slower.

Good point, but I should have made myself clearer. I'm talking about corner speed and overall lap times, not just straight line speed. Drag racing doesn't do it for me, but seeing F1 cars flat out through Eau Rouge does (or even that tight 'esses' type corner that was at Valencia, now you're talking). So no, F1's not less exciting than oval racing for me.

Offline Irisado

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2014, 06:13:38 PM »
On the other hand, unreliability cost Clark a couple of WDCs. He scored 25 wins and only 1 second and 6 thirds in his career. He was famous for winning or DNFing in the always fragile Lotus.

Performance was everything for Chapman though, was it not?  He pushed the limits in Formula 1, in order to win, so the unreliability was the quid pro quo.  That's what I'm saying is wrong with modern Formula 1, the teams get away with pushing the boundaries too easily in terms of reliability, in much the same way as drivers get away with going off the track since the removal of gravel traps.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

vintly

  • Guest
Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2014, 06:21:11 PM »
On the other hand, unreliability cost Clark a couple of WDCs. He scored 25 wins and only 1 second and 6 thirds in his career. He was famous for winning or DNFing in the always fragile Lotus.

Performance was everything for Chapman though, was it not?  He pushed the limits in Formula 1, in order to win, so the unreliability was the quid pro quo.  That's what I'm saying is wrong with modern Formula 1, the teams get away with pushing the boundaries too easily in terms of reliability, in much the same way as drivers get away with going off the track since the removal of gravel traps.

Why make unreliability a deciding factor when you don't need to? Make the tracks more dangerous, that'll fix it. The cars are strong enough to stand up to a few prangs, and danger is sadly lacking in the sport as it stands now. Last year was pathetic for crashes, hardly any.

Reliability is a symptom not only of limited engine performance etc, it's also a natural symptom of the march of time, in other words - Progress. I was pretty bad at making omelettes when I first started, but now my omelettes are famed throughout the kingdom (well, almost). Not one of the grateful hordes of satisfied omelette-eaters has come to me with an idea to make crap omelettes again.

Offline Irisado

Re: The Current State of Formula 1
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2014, 06:27:38 PM »
Because both are needed.  Combine unreliability with more demanding circuits and you'll have more unpredictable results.  One without the other isn't enough in my opinion, especially in view of the fact that the quality of drivers has gone up over the years, so fewer mistakes are made even on tracks which still punish the unwary, such as Monte Carlo.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

 


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