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Author Topic: Double Points Confirmed  (Read 11081 times)

Offline Irisado

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2014, 01:35:55 PM »
F1 teams are more stable now than ever.  They may struggle, but most of the teams on the grid have been continuously in operation since I started watching F1 in 1996 (even if the ownership has changed).  The barrier to entry in the sport is enormous, but it's a serious enterprise:  if you're not prepared, you won't make it.

Even if you are prepared you won't necessarily make it.  Look at all the resources that Toyota and Honda had at their disposals, and they didn't come close to making it.  Not that I minded unduly, because it shows that money isn't the only thing you need to do well in Formula 1, but it sends out the message that Formula 1 is a club not to join.

In 1996 the following teams lined up on the grid:

Williams-Renault
Ferrari
Benetton-Renault
McLaren-Mercedes
Jordan-Peugeot
Ligier-Mugen Honda
Sauber-Ford
Tyrrell-Yamaha
Footwork (Arrows)-Hart
Minardi-Cosworth
Forti-Cosworth

Of those we've lost Ligier (Prost), Arrows, and Forti completely, and most of the others have turned into other teams over time.  Apart from Force India (which is still fairly close to Jordan in terms of staff, location, and how it operates), I'd say the others are now so far removed from what they were that the attrition rate has been pretty high.  Toss in the teams which have come and gone since then too, and you've got a fairly lengthy list, so I wouldn't say that Formula 1 has been all that stable in this respect.  I would, however, agree that the revolving door of teams that arose in the late 1980s and early 1990s has not been repeated.

The double points issue may not persuade people to turn off Formula 1, but it will do the sport no favours in encouraging fans to give positive feedback, and if it does change the result of the championship, especially through one driver who has a substantial lead let's say suffering a DNF through no fault of his own, there will be a lot of complaints, and that cannot be good for the sport.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Jericoke

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2014, 03:17:37 PM »
F1 teams are more stable now than ever.  They may struggle, but most of the teams on the grid have been continuously in operation since I started watching F1 in 1996 (even if the ownership has changed).  The barrier to entry in the sport is enormous, but it's a serious enterprise:  if you're not prepared, you won't make it.

Even if you are prepared you won't necessarily make it.  Look at all the resources that Toyota and Honda had at their disposals, and they didn't come close to making it.  Not that I minded unduly, because it shows that money isn't the only thing you need to do well in Formula 1, but it sends out the message that Formula 1 is a club not to join.

I would suggest that the stories of Honda, Toyota show that 'resources' aren't the same as 'prepared' in F1.  Without the right people, it just won't happen, no matter how much you spend.

You're right that there are some fundamental problems with F1 that double points (or not) is hardly going to solve it.

As for team consistency... not many sports have the same personnel 20 years on.  I wouldn't expect F1 to be any different in that respect.  There are more teams that are 30+ years old than there were in 90s though.  We have the same number of teams on the grid.  I'm happy that when Honda, Ford, BMW, Minardi, Renault, Tyrell and Jordan were looking to step away they were able to find people willing to step in.  (Not to mention BAR, Stewart, Bennetton, Paul Stoddard and Tom Wikenshaw... even if Arrows' successors eventually quit).  F1 has a history of teams just evaporating.  That's become very rare.

Offline Monty

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2014, 03:35:36 PM »
I think Jeri is spot on.
Toyota was an exceptionally bad example. Power and money controlled in Japan, best engineers sourced in UK and the team based in Germany solely because it was close to the Group European HQ. A classic corporate c*ck-up!
The problem of course is that F1 is no longer a sport run by enthusiasts, it is now a business run by suits.
The long term success of Mercedes interests me. The brilliant and enthusiastic Ross Brawn took a good team and made it successful, he then used Mercedes money to make it even better. The suits then got rid of the enthusiastic Ross Brawn and now run the business with a committee. The 2014 car was developed under the Brawn influence. I wonder what will happen in the future?

Offline John S

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Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2014, 09:04:54 PM »

The long term success of Mercedes interests me. The brilliant and enthusiastic Ross Brawn took a good team and made it successful, he then used Mercedes money to make it even better. The suits then got rid of the enthusiastic Ross Brawn and now run the business with a committee. The 2014 car was developed under the Brawn influence. I wonder what will happen in the future?

Brawn's title winning car may have been conceived by him but it was Honda's team and money that developed it, they even assisted with a few Ŗmillion legacy to allow the team to stay in F1. Terrible shame they had to drop out just on the cusp of being race and possibly championship winners. Yeah I know it was a Merc engine bolted on the Honda(Brawn) chassis when it took the championship, it would still have been a race winning car with a Honda V8, it was the double diffuser that won it for Brawn really.

I guess though Honda's exit only proves the point of how fragile the existence of some manufacturer F1 teams can be. However it's good to know that new owners are willing to see the skills and creativity in these F1 outfits and keep their technology and dreams alive.



 
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Scott

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2014, 12:46:08 PM »
Hmmmm, backtracking now?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113375

Really?  Finally listening to the fans?  Um, just exactly WHERE can we tell you things that you will listen to?  We've got so much more to say  ;) ;)
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Jericoke

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2014, 03:03:34 PM »
Hmmmm, backtracking now?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113375

Really?  Finally listening to the fans?  Um, just exactly WHERE can we tell you things that you will listen to?  We've got so much more to say  ;) ;)

The FIA sent me a survey by email a year or two ago, based on my membership at Formula1.com

Offline F1fanaticBD

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2014, 09:13:26 AM »
Hmmmm, backtracking now?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113375

Really?  Finally listening to the fans?  Um, just exactly WHERE can we tell you things that you will listen to?  We've got so much more to say  ;) ;)

The FIA sent me a survey by email a year or two ago, based on my membership at Formula1.com

Was there any hint of double points a year ago? I guess not, so what exactly was the survey for Jeri  :P

May be you are the one who gave them these idea  :tease:

If you had let us to give you a little help, we the GPW members could have changed the world  :D
Keep running the fast cars, you will be never out of girls

Offline Irisado

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #67 on: April 20, 2014, 12:05:40 AM »
For once I agree with Lauda's comments.  I really hope that fans are listened to, and that it is binned.  It's really unfair on any drivers who fail to finish the race, especially if they get taken out by another competitor or caught up in another driver's accident.  Such incidents shouldn't distort the championship at either end of the table.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Online lkjohnson1950

Lonny

Offline Scott

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2014, 06:28:12 PM »
Well yes, but he would also have to finish 10th in the last race with Nico winning it, a rather unlikely event. 

Seriously though, that is exactly why this stupid double points system is a really bad idea.  A driver/team can work all season towards the WDC and then have a crappy race in Abu Double Up Dhabi and be finished.

Maybe they should give all the drivers a scratch off card at the end of each race and see if their points were doubled for the race they just finished.   |-( |-(
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Online lkjohnson1950

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2014, 07:03:33 PM »
Given the split of luck on the Mercedes Team this year, a DNF for Lewis doesn't seem so farfetched.
Lonny

Offline Irisado

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2014, 07:39:51 PM »
It could happen that Hamilton does finish tenth.  Say, for example, he has a technical failure in qualifying, as happened last weekend, starts from the back, and loses his front wing at some point relatively early during the race.  They have to pit, he gets stuck in traffic (overtaking at Abu Dhabi is difficult), and ends up finishing tenth by the end of the race while Rosberg wins.

All that happening because of a technical issue which the driver has no control over.

I hope that none of this comes to pass, but if it does, it will show what a complete fiasco the double points rule is.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Scott

Re: Double Points Confirmed
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2014, 09:05:14 PM »
Anyhow...that's a scenario that likely won't happen.  I don't think the Merc has shown us it is bulletproof, and there will be more failures of Nico or Lewis's cars through the rest of the season, and it may simply come down to who has the worse luck.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

 


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