GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Steven Roy on September 02, 2007, 12:39:50 PM
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http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19559.html
There is much talk in Holland that Nelson Piquet Jr will replace Giancarlo Fisichella at Renault next season. Piquet is half Brazilian and half Dutch and while Renault has yet to confirm its driver line-up for 2008, the team has obviously been holding out a hope that Fernando Alonso would leave McLaren and go back to his old team. The fact that BMW re-signed its two drivers suggests that he is not available.
Renault was caught on the hop by Alonso’s decision to quit the team back at the end of 2005 and was not able to sign a top star for the 2007 season as all the big names were under contract elsewhere. Team boss Flavio Briatore reckoned that Heikki Kovalainen would grow into a replacement for Alonso but, despite many thousands of kilometres of testing, his progress has been disappointing although he has now finally overtaken Giancarlo Fisichella in the Drivers' World Championship.
Other sources say that McLaren is going to be willing to release Alonso, but this seems unlikely as it makes no sense for McLaren to free one of its biggest assets to a rival team, thus making life difficult for itself. The team has said that Fernando has a contract and hopes that he will honour it. If he does not, it is likely that he will have to sit out 2008 unless some kind of swap could be arranged with another team which would give McLaren a suitable team-mate for Lewis Hamilton. The only driver likely to fit the bill would be Nico Rosberg. Williams would not say no if Alonso came knocking on the door.
Keeping Fisichella in 2008 makes little sense for Renault. He is a solid driver who scores points when he can but he still makes mistakes - as was seen in Turkey. Signing Piquet is a risk but Briatore may be hoping that he will become the star that Kovalainen was supposed to be.
The key issue at Renault, however, is not the drivers because they can do little without a good car. An average driver in a great car can win races in F1, but it is a lot harder for a great driver in an average car. The other point is that Renault has made no secret of the fact that it wants the F1 programme to be cost-effective and thus paying millions for Fernando Alonso makes little sense, unless Briatore can find someone else to pay the Spaniard's salary.
So Fisico, Kovy, Piquet and or Alonso. Who drives for Renault next year and if it is Alonso who gets the other silver car?
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Do you think Ron could be very clever and move Alonso sideways - into Dave Richards Mc Laren perhaps?
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Do you think Ron could be very clever and move Alonso sideways - into Dave Richards Mc Laren perhaps?
Alonso at Prodrive - I like it! No doubt he would be #1 driver there, and future McLaren drivers might learn not to mess with Ron Dennis.
As for Alonso going to Williams in a swap for Nico, I don't see the finances working out. If Frank parts with Nico, it will be for a large basket of cash. I don't think there is any way Williams could afford Alonso.
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I can't see Frank paying the sort of money Alonso would expect either.
Sell Niko to make a packet, yes. Spend more than the bare minimum to have a whinger like Alonso - out of the question.
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I think Alonso has a water tight contract with Mclaren and there is no question of Mclaren fiddling with Alonso without some serious financial dmamage not to mention sponsor issues. I think
Fisi is on his way out.
Ralf is on his way out
Barrichello& Button are still under contract for Honda but we could some surprises there.
Torro Rosso could have some changes.
Expect changes at Spyker.
Wurz's seat is in doubt at Williams. Nico is safe and I don't think Frank Williams will release Nico. They need a strong driver particulalrly with their new car.
Ferrari can spring a surprise if both the titles elude them.
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Raindancer,what changes do you exspect at Spyker?
driver and personal
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Next year the Spykers will be green, white and orange, Dare. :D
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Next year the Spykers will be green, white and orange, Dare. :D
If we could only have Eddie and his yellow
Jordon's back again
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That would be wonderful, dare, but I don't think Eddie wants to return to the fray. As for expected changes, I think Sutil will stay (he's contracted, quick and half of the consortium that's about to take possession of the team is Dutch) and Karthikeyan will join him (he's enthusiastic, quick and half of the consortium that's about to take possession of the team is Indian). Personnel will probably stay the same about that - the key players holding them together are Ian Phillips, Mike Gascoyne and (appropriately) James Key. Yet another change of management is unlikely to affect things, particularly as Michel Mol only stepped down as Spyker F1 CEO a few weeks ago and will surely become joint CEO again.
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Karthikeyan is tipped to drive for Williams next year and there is a healthy rivalry between his Corporate Sponsors and Vijay Mallya.
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Raindancer, where have you heard that information from? Karthikeyan would do a solid job for Williams but I worry it could be a purely financial decision as he has not raced for two years now so I do not see whether he would be in a stronger position than Wurz. Still, I did like Karthikeyan's style when he was in F1. I guess it seems he and Liuzzi could be fighting it out for the second seat at Williams.
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Yes L0cool. Apparently karthikeyan hasn't done too badly in whatever little testing he did for Willaims. But I agree it will be a financial decision. If Williams makes substantial improvements with their car than Karthikeyan may not have a chance. Its also being said that Karthikeyan passed out the Spyker drive primarily because he has been assured of a drive next year. Lets see
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It is interesting, thanks for the information. Yesterday Wurz said he basically knows what he is doing next season but has sworn a pact with Sir Frank Williams to not talk about it, which to me seems like he could be on his way out. It certainly will be interesting to see who gets the second Williams seat for 2008, as there are many positive sounds coming out of the team over the prospects of the FW30.
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Yep ! Wirz definitely seems to be on the way out. The key is Rosberg and if he can get a competitive drive next year. There are not many options. Renault have a seat coming up, Fisichella is out, Toyota have a seat but I don't know whether they will pay so much for Rosberg. But at the same time I don't expect Toyota to make a quantum jump in 2008 more like 2009 when they may be competitive.
BMW , Ferrari and Mclaren are full and that leaves Red Bull and Honda.
Spyker also is likely to have a new driver line up next year.
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"Other sources say that McLaren is going to be willing to release Alonso, but this seems unlikely as it makes no sense for McLaren to free one of its biggest assets "
I would hardly call someone who shops the team and whinges about No1 status an assett. thinking along those lines would you want to employ him?????
sideways to prodrive mclaren hmmmm I like that idea
Mick
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I doubt Dave richards would want a turncoat either.
There's only one team for Nando. Ferrari. They speak the same lingo.
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I think now he is an asset only in the financial sense. If he wants out of his contract it is going to cost him. Given how much Honda paid to get Button you have to wonder what they might consider good value for Alonso. I can't see Renault paying to get his release but Marlboro seem to be prepared to write blank cheques for Ferrari.
Of course Alonso probably has a clause in his contract that allows him to walk if Mclaren don't meet certain criteria. One of those criteria will be adversely affecting his image/value such as by him being associated with any scandal.
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You hit the nail on the head Steven ! The overwhelming opinion is that Hamilton win will mean nothing in the annals in the sport.
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You hit the nail on the head Steven ! The overwhelming opinion is that Hamilton win will mean nothing in the annals in the sport.
who's overwhelming opioion are you referring to,not mine and
I can't answer for Steven but I did'nt get that from his
reply
My overwhelming feeing is that Alonso is tarnishing
his image in the annals of sports.While at times I
thought Michael pushed the rules and fair play a
bit,Fernando does things that would make Schumi
look like a choirboy :o
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While at times I thought Michael pushed the rules and fair play a
bit, Fernando does things that would make Schumi look like a choirboy :o
I don't think I could have put that better myself. ;)
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You hit the nail on the head Steven ! The overwhelming opinion is that Hamilton win will mean nothing in the annals in the sport.
I don't understand what I wrote that gave you that opinion. I think Hamilton winning the championship could be one of the most significant events in the history of the sport. First rookie to win a championship. A rookie winning the championship despite being paired with supposedly the dominant driver in the sport. First non-white driver to win a championship.
Schumacher winning his first championship is not regarded as meaning nothing but his car at times was illegal and he clinched the championship by ramming his rival off the road after he made a stupid mistake that should have cost him the championship.
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After Mclaren penalty Hamilton's win this year will not mean much in a lame duck season. As Alonso tarnishing the sport ! What has he done?
He has just reported something illegal that was going on ! Actually he didn't report, Ron himself went and reported because Alonso apparently threatened him and we only one version of the whole thing yet. Lets wait for Alonso's version.
It is Mclaren who have tarnished the image by getting caught and not Alonso.
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On the contrary, if Hamilton wins the championship this year it will go down in history in more ways than one.
He will have beaten, not just the rest of the field, but his own double world champion team mate who screwed his team because he wasn't winning, the might of Ferrari and it's warped Italian legal system, and most important of all that Fashist Max mosley and his FIA.
Even the great Michael Schumacher didn't manage to beat all that lot in one fell swoop! ;) :yahoo:
Oh, and I'm still waiting for something that tells me that Mc Laren have done something illegal.
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When the Team is found guilty of possesing a competitors secrets how can the WDC won by anyone in that car be sacrosanct.
Won't it undermine the title ? Adulation is fine but .......
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article2461288.ece
Formula One is bracing itself for another spying scandal amid speculation that secret technical information has been passed to the Renault team by a former McLaren engineer.
This is only one of the stories I have read recently that suggest teams having information that they shouldn't have is endemic in the sport and pretty much always has been. Jackie Stewart has discussed how Tyrrell used to have information on its rivals 30 odd years ago. What has happened is nothing special. This case is only seen as different because Max made an issue out of it. Toyota had two employees convicted in a court of law of taking information from Ferrari a couple of seasons ago. Max took no action. There is a blatant pro-Ferrari bias at the heart of the FIA and always has been. Colin Chapman suggested once when one of his new designs was banned that he would submit the same car at the next race and paint it red to see if it was legal then.
The whole mess is nothing new just as Alonso offering his mechanics a bonus is nothing new. I read an article recently where Fangio said he always worked at keeping his mechanics on his side. At one race meeting he had a terrible vibration and they couldn't cure it. On race morning the vibration was gone. When asked how it had been cured in an interview years later he said he had no idea but he knew that his team mate Onofre Marimon had almost had his teeth shaken out during the race.
The only difference nowadays is these matters are publicised.
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"Other sources say that McLaren is going to be willing to release Alonso, but this seems unlikely as it makes no sense for McLaren to free one of its biggest assets "
I would hardly call someone who shops the team and whinges about No1 status an assett. thinking along those lines would you want to employ him?????
sideways to prodrive mclaren hmmmm I like that idea
Mick
Is that Mick the bouncer from Toronto?
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I think one of the most important, long term effects of a Hamilton championship is its potential to bring a great many new fans to the sport. He's getting F1 coverage in areas that have completely ignored it before. It's a shame that this trumped-up FIA business is tarnishing it.
The vast discrepancy between the punishment for Toyota and McLaren is appalling. Toyota employees were convicted in a court of law. Toyota has a history of cheating. They got booted out of WRC for it. McLaren’s people have never been convicted of anything. Yet Toyota didn’t get fined a cent and didn’t loose any points. (As if they had any to loose)
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When the Team is found guilty of possesing a competitors secrets how can the WDC won by anyone in that car be sacrosanct.
Won't it undermine the title ? Adulation is fine but .......
There was (and remains) no proof that McLaren used any Ferrari intellectual property and the team was found guilty by a corupt and biased panel with absolutely no legal rights. Every sane and sensible person knows this. It is therefore Ferraris claims to be World Champions that is completely hollow and if Hamilton goes on to win, his success will be even more impressive due to the incredible amount of unfair political nonsense that he has had to deal with.
Come on give the guy a break and accept he is an excellent racer and the sport needs more like him.
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I have bitten my fingers (tongue) long enough now......several people KEEP saying that there is no PROOF that McLaren used the information....now from what I understand they weren't punished the first time because there was no evidence that the information was beyond coughlan....second time came full admissions that the team knew about the data....now whether they used it or not they ARE GUILTY of breaking the rules.....just by being in POSSESSION of the data. The whole thing is considered over by Mr Dennis (a true professional), the FIA (probably one of the most inept organisations) and thats it. I don't see the need to constantly rehash this contraversy. It is over and done with.....fair or not......IT IS DONE
Please people let it go
Rom >:(
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Sorry but it is a long way from being done. The FIA do not consider it to be over. McLaren have to submit next year's car to tests to see if it has an Ferrari derived bits on it. How is anyone going to know what is Ferrari derived and what isn't?
And I still don't understand why the twin chassis Lotus was illegal either.
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Because nobody else thought of it!
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And I still don't understand why the twin chassis Lotus was illegal either.
Because it wasn't red. ;)
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Formula One is bracing itself for another spying scandal amid speculation that secret technical information has been passed to the Renault team by a former McLaren engineer.
I wouldn't worry too much, it's probably just a few CD's filled with Ferrari data :P
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I agree with Rom here. Its clear and evident that mclaren's other employees had access to ferrari Data. Period.
reg next year ! lets hope that Mclaren is given a clean chit as most people here believe.
Lets close this topic.
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So you can have the last word? No chance, Rainy! :D
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Its clear and evident that mclaren's other employees had access to ferrari Data.
And now we also know, from the horses mouth that Ferrari also received regular Mc Laren data, but i doubt that Ron D will throw his dummy out of the pram.
And I also very much doubt that the FIA will investigate the matter as vigourously as it did the Ferrari data to Mc Laren.
Incidentally that would have made things interesting. BMW constructors champions for 2007 without having won a race. Great for the sports credibility.
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It matters not one iota whether the FIA investigate anything in the matter - the courts will. You can bet that the defence lawyers will dig around in that sort of dirt and produce all kinds of stuff that the WMSC never had access to. And the result may be that the FIA end up looking pretty stupid and high-handed for making judgements on matters that were no concern of theirs and for which there was far too little real evidence.
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Maybe this is how Luca knew that the McLaren is mainly Ferrari because Ferrari got the info from McLaren in the first place. Then there is the suspicion that Renault have a load of McLaren data.
Guess we are heading for a spec car formula by the back door.
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:yahoo:Come on Guys !
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Guess we are heading for a spec car formula by the back door.
Then we end up with A1GP :( :'( :nono:
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Even with a spec car the teams with the most money
and best tech people are gonna come out on top