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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: John S on August 13, 2020, 07:25:12 PM

Title: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: John S on August 13, 2020, 07:25:12 PM
Surely this is just a 'Balance of Power' initiative to aid the likes of Ferrari. It seems Ferrari lost the ability to use party mode after the FIA crackdown on whatever they were doing last season to boost engine power.

Of course we are not allowed to know what Ferrari were doing, (ssshh it's a secret) but we can't have Ferrari finishing routinely outside the points - no that will never do.  :crazy:

One of the real fun things left in F1 is seeing the balls out flying laps in Quali.

So much for what us fans might feel about it.  - Indycar racing in Europe anyone????  :nono: :nono:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/941870/1/f1-qualifying-modes-could-be-banned-belgian-gp
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: Andy B on August 13, 2020, 10:31:06 PM
Oh Dear!
Why oh why must the the results be falsely fix in these ways?
And turn off towards F1.  :(
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: Monty on August 14, 2020, 08:43:50 AM
The FIA certainly appear to want to penalise anyone who is showing some success - unless it's Ferrari of course!
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: Jericoke on August 14, 2020, 03:29:02 PM
This is a huge downside of locking down development.  If a supplier creates something they think is legal (ish), and it's not (or they're caught) there is no opportunity to fix it.  Basically the FIA rules 'artificially' make offenders non-competitive. 

Instead of letting Ferrari improve their engine, the only way to keep things interesting is to penalize the successful teams.
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: Scott on August 15, 2020, 10:28:49 PM
It’s a shame.  They expect the teams to show up ready from race 1, but they jig around the rules all season long.  Maybe the FIA should sort out their regulations and if the teams find a little hole that the FIA missed, then the hole shouldn’t be plugged before the following season.

I’m not sure the rule change will do much to help Ferrari.  Their race pace doesn’t seem terribly different than their Q positions.
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: Dare on August 15, 2020, 11:28:18 PM
Surely this is just a 'Balance of Power' initiative to aid the likes of Ferrari. It seems Ferrari lost the ability to use party mode after the FIA crackdown on whatever they were doing last season to boost engine power.

Of course we are not allowed to know what Ferrari were doing, (ssshh it's a secret) but we can't have Ferrari finishing routinely outside the points - no that will never do.  :crazy:

One of the real fun things left in F1 is seeing the balls out flying laps in Quali.

So much for what us fans might feel about it.  - Indycar racing in Europe anyone????  :nono: :nono:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/941870/1/f1-qualifying-modes-could-be-banned-belgian-gp


At lest in Indycar you don't have the same winners
every week for years on end. I'm all far it
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: John S on August 16, 2020, 12:04:58 PM
Surely this is just a 'Balance of Power' initiative to aid the likes of Ferrari. It seems Ferrari lost the ability to use party mode after the FIA crackdown on whatever they were doing last season to boost engine power.

Of course we are not allowed to know what Ferrari were doing, (ssshh it's a secret) but we can't have Ferrari finishing routinely outside the points - no that will never do.  :crazy:

One of the real fun things left in F1 is seeing the balls out flying laps in Quali.

So much for what us fans might feel about it.  - Indycar racing in Europe anyone????  :nono: :nono:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/941870/1/f1-qualifying-modes-could-be-banned-belgian-gp


At lest in Indycar you don't have the same winners
every week for years on end. I'm all far it

Funny though ain't it that the big money teams in Indy still seem to take the honours come end of the season.  :P

Oh - and wot you doing hanging about with us F1 freaks all the time if Indy is so dam good?  ;)  :-*
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: Monty on August 17, 2020, 09:09:04 AM
I know there is a lot of debate about using handicaps (success ballast, reverse grids, rev limits, etc.) but changing the technical rules is even worse.
Personally I would select 4 races per year roughly equi-spaced through the year and at tracks with good overtaking opportunities, and then reverse the grid by championship position. It would provide the lower teams some valuable TV time; it would provide some fantastic overtaking; it shouldn't make a massive difference to the final outcome of the championships
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: Jericoke on August 17, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
I know there is a lot of debate about using handicaps (success ballast, reverse grids, rev limits, etc.) but changing the technical rules is even worse.
Personally I would select 4 races per year roughly equi-spaced through the year and at tracks with good overtaking opportunities, and then reverse the grid by championship position. It would provide the lower teams some valuable TV time; it would provide some fantastic overtaking; it shouldn't make a massive difference to the final outcome of the championships

My proposal is more radical.  Instead of awarding points based on who can cover distance in the least amount of time, award points for passes.  Pass one car, you get one point.  Suddenly, reverse grids make sense, you want to start at the back, so you have more cars to pass.  Blue flags become a thing of the past, as you have to fight lapped cars to earn more points.  Cars won't limp along trying to preserve tires either. The cars will also change to make passing easier.  Right now the design philosophy favours the leading car, but once the top teams earn points for passing, they'll support rules that encourage it.
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: John S on August 17, 2020, 03:47:57 PM
Cripes Jeri F1 is controversial enough without giving teams the opportunity to keep pitting for new boots just for more overtakes rather than worry where they finish.  :swoon: - 5 stop races anyone?  :crazy:
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on August 17, 2020, 04:04:16 PM
How about just all owing 2 or 3 engine upgrades a year? That way if an engine builder makes a major mistake (like Ferrari this year) the teams won't be messed up for the entire season.
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: John S on August 17, 2020, 04:21:06 PM
They can upgrade already Cossie, as long as they haven't run their allocation. Even then they can take a grid drop to bring upgraded engine into the mix. 
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on August 17, 2020, 08:22:59 PM
F1 started downhill when the rule book became more than 2-3 pages long. While I recognize that no one can afford unlimited car racing anymore, it was better in the '60's, '70's and '80's when it was more anything goes.
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: Ian on August 18, 2020, 11:36:42 AM
Apart from all the deaths Lonnie.
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: John S on August 18, 2020, 01:20:28 PM
I second your thought Ian.
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: John S on August 18, 2020, 01:42:58 PM
Seems stopping party modes might not be the simple panacea for FIA to close up the field.

Honda are troubled about their own performance and how compliance will be achieved amongst all engine suppliers, according to the paras below from GPtoday.

Sounds like another fine mess brewing from Jean Laurel & Ross Hardy 

Honda doubts about abolishing qualifying mode - How you going to check?

''Overtaking a Mercedes is very difficult. It is difficult at all to get close to another car with a Formula 1 car, so you really have to be much faster per lap. So it's more about the speed in qualifying'', says Honda's Toyoharu Tanabe. From Belgium the FIA wants the teams to use only one engine mode, but Tanabe wonders if this is feasible and who will be hurt the most in the end.

''We're having talks with the FIA, because we as manufacturers don't feel that you can control this. If we can all share our ideas about this and come to a solution this can already be done in Belgium, but otherwise you have to postpone those rules first'', says Tanabe about that.

He doesn't know yet if Honda will benefit from it. ''That will all depend on the way this is controlled. If Mercedes loses speed then that's good for us of course, but at the moment I'm not sure yet'', concludes the technical man at Honda.

Extracts courtesy GPblog.com, today.
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on August 18, 2020, 07:31:59 PM
I second your thought Ian.

Of course. I thought that went without saying. Most safety mods have not affected performance greatly. But now they're restricting the designs of the cars. F1 has been about innovation and they are gradually removing that freedom.
Title: Re: Now FIA wants to stop F1 Quali 'Party mode' from Belgian GP
Post by: Scott on August 20, 2020, 06:16:32 PM
As the first sentence in that article points out, the most difficult thing in F1 is getting close to the car in front.  The best way to make F1 more competitive is to shut down the wash off the backs of the cars. 

Ground effects and turn the back of the car into a cone.
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