GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: J.Clark on October 18, 2014, 03:46:39 PM
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I realize we are still two weeks away from the US GP at COTA, but as I will be a bit busy between now and then, I will go ahead with this while I have the time.
What began with an announcement in 2010 that the project was going forward, end up as what could perhaps be one of the better Tilke circuits, with the first USGP there in 2012. Construction took nearly two years and watching the progress through photos and announcements, I was amazed at what all went into the construction. I'm sure some of those photos are still available, but I am not going to dig through things for them.
The actual construction was amazing to watch. For example, the depths to which they graded below the racing surface, the layers of plastic, gravel, different dirts and so on before any asphalt was layed was incredible to watch. I can only guess, but I doubt there will be any issues with wash-boards, or other such problems as a circuit ages.
The design is actually rather remarkable. There was consideration given to what drivers wanted and how those desires may impact the fans and racing. Turn one was created to be similar to Spa's climb from Eau Rouge, the esses of Suzuka follow that and the hairpin at turn 11 is a true hairpin such as Canada's turn 10. I will say that from my experience, having gone to this race twice, it did provide some excitement for the fans.
COTA learned a bit from the first race and made some changes, some of which were already in the works, but time ran out on them as the first GP date rolled up. The facilities were much improved by the 2013 race weekend, so the fan experience got better. Since I will be going one more time this year, I imagine more improvements will have been made in that regard.
The circuit:
133' climb to turn 1, with an off-camber, hard left at the top and a down hill run thru turn 2 and into the esses to start the lap. A few turns later, following another uphill run to turn 10 and then it is down hill to turn 11 where there has been a fair amount of over-taking, but that leads into one of the longest straights on the calendar (roughly 3/4 mile) to a 2nd gear left-hander that has had race changing passes in every race so far. Then the complex of turns through 15 (where my seat will be this year) followed by a sweeping series or right-handers to the left at turn 19, where more than one driver has gotten it wrong with some cost. Then a simple left onto the start-finish straight. There will be two DRS zones.
A lap is nearly 3 1/2 miles long with 20 turns.
The record was set by Vettel's Red Bull in 2012 at 1:39.347.
Previous winners list is very short. Hamilton won the inaugural event in 2012 and Vettel won it last year.
Hamilton is a likely choice for becoming a two-time winner, with only three drivers in position to challenge that and two of those are only barely in the category. Rosberg, could of course beat Lewis since they have been dueling the whole season and will be in the same car. Bottas and Massa (if his car doesn't fail him yet again), who ran very well in the here before when in a Ferrari - was in fact told by the team to slow down and not challenge Fernando, as he was closing in and would have caught him with several laps to chance an overtaking.
- so the track favors him to some degree.
The circuit should once again favor the Mercedes powered cars - no surprise there. I can only imagine, but have to believe that Ferrari will out perform Red Bull, in spite of the Red Bulls having made some ground, as shown in Suzuka.
The city of Austin is awesome.
If you like steaks, go to the Texas Land & Cattle on Mo Pac.
If you like Thai, there is an excellent place on 620 (west side out of downtown area).
There is a famous B-B-Q place downtown Austin too, but I'm told by a local that people pay people to stand in line for them, because the wait can be up 2 hours, or more. It is Franklin's on 11th, not too far from where the downtown F1 party central is located - walking distance for sure.
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Q: How are F1 races like manned spaceflight programs?
A: Russia's is terrible, but it's still better than America's.
Herman Tilke did what was previously thought to be impossible - he managed to build a circuit that was even worse than the Las Vegas Car Park Course. (Don't loose heart, Nevada. I hear Herr Tilke has been spotted prowling The Strip)
It's the most over rated track in the history of motorsport. The Fools In Authority have decided that it can replace two of the world's greatest racing venues, Indy & Sebring. Not even close! The track is in a cow pasture out in the middle of nowhere. It is almost impossible to drive to.
This is most appropriate, since Austin is famous for it's terrible traffic. It is one of the very few major American cities without an outer belt freeway. I've sat for hours on I-35 trying to drive a few miles through downtown. And those times were in the middle of a normal afternoon, not even rush hour.
The ticket prices for the track are beyond astronomical. The same can be said for accommodations in the Austin area.
Austin does has an excellent live music scene. Something to do while waiting for COTA to follow Texas World Speedway into oblivion.
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I agree on the ticket price issue, but take exception to most of the rest.
Traffic - We stayed at camp-ground west of town. We drove in virtually no traffic to breakfast on the way to the circuit, and from there straight to the parking almost not even stopping for a traffic light. Same was true leaving (except for it taking a little time to get out of the massive parking lot).
I have been to Indy (several times) and nobody handles traffic like they do = awesome.
I have also been to a few European circuits and found most of your complaints to be about the same for all, some just a little worse or better than others. It is what happens when you put a hundred thousand or so fans in a venue.
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I can only speak about 2 European circuits (Monza and Barcelona), but I think most of them are run the same way. There is rarely a traffic problem because there is nowhere to park. With the exception of a few small parking lots for organized tour groups (buses) and VIP's, everyone takes trains or shuttle buses to the track which are usually quite well organized and very frequent. A bit of a wait to get out of Monza because the trains can't take everyone at once, but at Catalunya people were pretty relaxed and generally wandered slowly through the town just outside the track (or stopped for a drink along the way) and then caught the trains back to the city, which for me, an hour or so after the race, wasn't even full.
Ticket prices have skyrocketed everywhere. A decent seat at Monza is now in the 500-600Euro price, which is just insane for the numbered bench you get.
As for the track, I'm still on the fence. But I'll never understand why Bernie pulled it from Indy other than spite. They did a great job aside from the Michelin problem. I was always hoping to go watch an F1 race there one day.
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Ok, one more time. Bernie did not pull the race from Indy. Tony George was unable to find a title sponsor for the race, and since he could not sell enough tickets to break even, he refused to renew the contract unless Bernie reduced the fee. Fat Chance!! Possibly the only sound decision TG ever made. The road course wasn't very interesting, and the current one is little better. It's the Speedway that made it interesting. You can feel the history of the place as soon as you enter. The oval is HUGE. You do not get a feel for the size on TV. The banking is steeper than it appears on TV as well. The museum is fascinating and the photo archive is amazing. Nothing like it anywhere.
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I'd quite forgotten the USGP means the annual Cos v Lonny head to head is back on. :D
So nice of you gents to keep us entertained in the long break before the actual race. ;) :good: :tease:
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Oh, I guess I stand corrected...I always thought Bernie wanted a much higher fee in his contract renewal because TG had actually found a way to make an F1 race profitable without government money, and that was where the dispute was.
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Can anybody actually dispute that, if Bernie had wanted a race at Indy, there would be a race at Indy? Remember, The Evil Troll would fly back and forth from Chicago every day because, according to him, there were no hotels worthy of him in Indianapolis.
Your welcome, John. Don't expect anything else entertaining from the Cow Pasture Grand Prix.
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Can anybody actually dispute that, if Bernie had wanted a race at Indy, there would be a race at Indy? Remember, The Evil Troll would fly back and forth from Chicago every day because, according to him, there were no hotels worthy of him in Indianapolis.
Your welcome, John. Don't expect anything else entertaining from the Cow Pasture Grand Prix.
I always lament the lack of American participation in F1, and generally stand up for Bernie in terms of being the man responsible for putting (and keeping) F1 at the top of the motorsports world.
But I do believe that Bernie is the obstacle to F1 being relevant in the USA. I don't think he understands how different Americans are from the rest of the world. Everyone knows how important Indy is, except Bernie.
Indy doesn't need F1. Watkins Glen doesn't need F1. Sebring, Las Vegas, Long Beach, Detroit... they all do just fine without F1.
It's not like moving into a new country that builds a track just for F1. The USA has more successful tracks than any other country. To all but the most dedicated racing fans, F1 is a curiosity. Americans don't see racing as an international circus of glamour that will put them on the map. They see racing as a way to spend the afternoon with your friends and family.
NASCAR gets it. IRL gets it. Hundreds of local ovals get it.
By rejecting Indy, Bernie has shown Americans that he doesn't think that F1 is part of racing culture. Americans agree. American sponsors and companies are interested in race fans, and Bernie isn't providing that.
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It goes back to Bernie being in it for the money and not really caring about the actual sport.
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It goes back to Bernie being in it for the money and not really caring about the actual sport.
Which is the problem. The American market is virtually untapped. It supports two very large racing series with buckets of sponsors and international recognition.
It should be simple to get IRL and NASCAR fans to follow F1 enough for American sponsors and manufacturers to invest in the sport, but F1, under Bernie's stewardship, continues to get it wrong.
If it's about the money there are BILLIONS of dollars that could go to F1. More than would ever come out of Russia, more than will come out of India or China in the next 50 years.
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One of the biggest problems of F1 in the US is foreign
drivers with names most Americans can'tpronounce or remember.
I think that hurt the Champ Series and is now hurting IRL.
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I tend to disagree, having been a fan of F1 since sometime around 1960, before tv coverage.
There are two very big and very obvious differences between F1 and the more American series of NASCAR and IRL. The first of which is the number of races, or perhaps the frequency. I would never suggest that F1 race every weekend like them, but there are opportunities to add races and run more frequently. There is little reason based upon logistics, that F1 could not run every weekend while in Europe. Here is a link to an overlay of Europe on the US. NASCAR and Indy cars run weekly and all over the US. It is about exposure. http://goeurope.about.com/od/europeanmaps/l/bl-country-size-comparison-map.htm
The second big difference is access. In NASCAR and IRL, drivers and the garage area are virtually open to all - fans can walk about the garage area, drivers are brought out in mass for autograph sessions, in case they didn't get one in the garage area. An example was a couple of years ago when I had a nice chat with Rubens after a practice session. And former driver, now team owner Sarah Fisher during lunch.
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IRL 's season ends in August.Even Mario says
that's way to soon for a racing series to end.
That along with the fenders on the cars and
lousy sounding engines drove me away from
Indy.Personally I like the foreign drivers competing
here...it gives it a exotic flair...but that's only me
I reckon
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I tend to disagree, having been a fan of F1 since sometime around 1960, before tv coverage.
There are two very big and very obvious differences between F1 and the more American series of NASCAR and IRL. The first of which is the number of races, or perhaps the frequency. I would never suggest that F1 race every weekend like them, but there are opportunities to add races and run more frequently. There is little reason based upon logistics, that F1 could not run every weekend while in Europe. Here is a link to an overlay of Europe on the US. NASCAR and Indy cars run weekly and all over the US. It is about exposure. http://goeurope.about.com/od/europeanmaps/l/bl-country-size-comparison-map.htm
The second big difference is access. In NASCAR and IRL, drivers and the garage area are virtually open to all - fans can walk about the garage area, drivers are brought out in mass for autograph sessions, in case they didn't get one in the garage area. An example was a couple of years ago when I had a nice chat with Rubens after a practice session. And former driver, now team owner Sarah Fisher during lunch.
That's what I mean though: Americans aren't expecting to see drivers who are elevated to the status of untouchable gods like F1 does. American fans want to see that drivers are just like 'us', and that maybe I could be an F1 racer if I'd stuck to karting.
If F1 is willing for forgo champagne in the mid east, remain silent for the Russian anthem, then why not let the drivers pal around with the fans? It doesn't have to be a cookie cutter experience at every stop.
As for the American/foreign content, it's the proverbial chicken and egg. American drivers/sponsors/suppliers won't be interested in F1 until Americans are interested in F1. Americans won't be interested in F1 until there are American drivers/sponsors/suppliers.
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Indy had open, free autograph sessions with all of the F1 drivers. Also, there was an entrance to the paddock that was used by most of the F1 personnel. It was a great place to hang around early in the morning. A number of the pictures I took there are in the Gallery section. Many of the drivers would stop and talk. So would people like Charlie Whiting, Christian Horner and other F1 brass.
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That along with the fenders on the cars
Care to translate for us Brits Dare? :DntKnw:
I thunk that word 'fender' meant the chrome metal bars found at the ends of cars,
we call them 'bumpers' in Britland. ;)
However I don't remember seeing crash protectors stuck on both ends of Indy cars :confused:
- but then I ain't watched any Indy races for about 18 months. :D
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That along with the fenders on the cars
Care to translate for us Brits Dare? :DntKnw:
I thunk that word 'fender' meant the chrome metal bars found at the ends of cars,
we call them 'bumpers' in Britland. ;)
However I don't remember seeing crash protectors stuck on both ends of Indy cars :confused:
- but then I ain't watched any Indy races for about 18 months. :D
Indycars have the wheels partially enclosed by a structure designed to prevent wheels interlocking and flinging a car into the air (as the crash that killed Dan Wheldon, who the chassis is named after. Similar to Gilles' crash)
They aren't really bumpers but do function like them. They aren't really fenders (the top of the tire is visible), but they look like the fenders on sports cars.
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We Yanks use the word "fenders" for what you Brits call "wings."
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We Yanks use the word "fenders" for what you Brits call "wings."
Yeah that makes sense now in respect of what Dare, and then Jeri, is describing. :good:
But what the hell do you call the bumpers then? :swoon:
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We Yanks use the word "fenders" for what you Brits call "wings."
Yeah that makes sense now in respect of what Dare, and then Jeri, is describing. :good:
But what the hell do you call the bumpers then? :swoon:
front bumper and back bumper and in my eyes Indy
cars have what I pertain as fenders....case closed John :tease:
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And the rear bumper/fender proved remarkably ineffective at preventing Dario from being pitched up and over and into the fence at Houston.
>:D >:D >:D
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But what the hell do you call the bumpers then? :swoon:
We call them "bumpers." ;)
Or, if you're into stock car racing, "the chrome horn."
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Returning to the topic of Austin's event, I must say that I don't know about all of the other circuits and admit I have only been to a couple of European race weekends, Canada and Indy. This show in Austin is hard to beat, no matter what other venues may have as an agenda.
http://music.blog.austin360.com/2014/10/16/f1-fan-fest-releases-schedule-including-set-times-for-free-de-la-soul-joan-jett-shows/
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The USGP at Indy was usually the same week-end as the Indy Jazz & Blues fest. I remember seeing live, free race day concerts at The Speedway by John Mellencamp, The Commodores, Patti LeBelle and others. Local bands played constantly all four days of the weekend in the Pagoda Plaza. In 2005, our race tickets got us free admission to the Raphael exhibit at the Indianapolis Museum of Art.
My favorite "show" of every race weekend was watching all of the classic cars cruising 16th Street & Georgetown Road. Everything for 60's muscle cars to modern supercars to 250 and 330 series Ferraris.
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I remember the great spectacle of F1 cars at Brands Hatch funnelled after the start into the big drop round Paddock Hill bend, then uphill to the 180 Druids turn and dropping back down the hill to Bottom bend (latterly called Graham Hill bend). Sensational to watch and hear, either at the track or on TV.
Sadly Brands will never stage another F1 GP in my lifetime :'( and no amount of waxing lyrical will change that. The boring flatlands of Northampton won over the marvellous topographic ups and downs of the Kent track. :crazy:
Time and commercial pressures change both tracks and where GPs are located, how many circuits from the 50s' 60s', 70s or 80s retaining an F1 GP are still as they originally where? None as far as I'm aware, even Monaco has been altered.
Sorry Cossie but it's time you let go of this concept that Indianapolis is the only real USGP track, however good your memories are, like mine - they're just memories. :(
Us Brits are used to the expression 'the King is dead, long live the King' - so Viva Austin! :yahoo:
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There were 7 points races in the first F1 season back in 1950. The first three were, in order, Silverstone, Monaco & Indy. Spa & Monza were also on the schedule that year. The other tow were Reims (France) and Bremgarten (Swizerland).
Indy is by far the best USGP venue, and will still be around long after COTA has gone the way of Texas World Speedway and Ontario International. Some day, hopefully soon, Bernie will depart, the darkness will lift and the glory that used to be F1 will return.
The King still lives, and the rank usurper shall not long triumph. :yahoo:
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Aah John, Brands Hatch, what a circuit that is, I never saw F1 there but I used to be there regularly for my 1st love at the time, BIKES, used to stand on the bank at Bottom bend, you could see them enter Clearways, all along Top Straight into Paddock, then out of Druids and back round in front of you at Bottom Bend, what days they were. :yahoo:
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I'm with Cos on this one...Indy will outlive Bernie, and when whoever takes over F1 realizes that the fan experience is more important than impressing the Paddock Club guests, F1 will return to Indy.
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I also remember F1 at Brands Hatch (although I can't remember which was the last one I saw - I know it was the European GP that year). I still go and watch historic GP cars there and they still sound fantastic. It is also my favourite track to drive. I started there when I was riding superbikes and the negative camber & steep drop of Paddock Hill Bend really strengthens certain muscles (those in the cheeks of your bum!)
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I'll second the bum cheek muscles Monty, many many years ago I took my bog standard G12 CSR round Brands, done a couple of laps,came belting(in my mind) along Top straight, braked for Paddock, nothing, somehow got round Paddock then got a speed wobble, had to open up again, how I got round Druids I'll never know, luck and the Almighty on my shoulder I think.
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So Ian, you had Matchless G12 CSR ? Great handling bike but they were never known for good brakes - they had smaller drum brakes than my Greeves 350 Sports!
My first encounter was on a Kawasaki Z900 with a Rickman frame so no excuses - but Paddock scared/thrilled me every lap!
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Packing today.
Driving out and leaving tomorrow night.
I will not be posting anything until at least a week from tomorrow.
Turn 15, Section 1, Row 28, Seat 6
Weather is sunny, or partly cloudy for the entire weekend, with a high of around 80 degrees. :yahoo:
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I'm really jealous.
Although, my good news is that I will be in the Middle East, full sun; 37C /96F :D (my bad news is I will be working :'( )
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Packing today.
Driving out and leaving tomorrow night.
I will not be posting anything until at least a week from tomorrow.
Turn 15, Section 1, Row 28, Seat 6
Weather is sunny, or partly cloudy for the entire weekend, with a high of around 80 degrees. :yahoo:
Have a great time! We'll watch for you on chat...if they have wifi at the track, drop in.
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Enjoy yourself J.Clark - you lucky, lucky so and so. ;)
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The NASCAR Cup Series will be right up Interstate 35 at Texas Speedway. The race starts the same time as the F1 race. The NFL Dallas Cowboys will also be playing at home, right up I-35. The NFL Houston Texans will be playing at home at the same time, too.
Even though the F1 race will be on a major broadcast TV network, I don't think it will get many viewers in Texas.
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I've just read the free practice report for today. Looks like it was pretty dull. The only points of note being a hydraulics issue for Hamilton at the end of second practice, and that Vettel won't be bothering with a qualifying set-up, because he has to take an engine penalty. He was slowest in second practice focusing exclusively on race set-up.
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Gave up on my stream, it was jerking and juddering like a 90 year old who'd never driven trying to master clutch control. >:D
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COTA demonstrated its vast knowledge of F1 racing. The put a Dutch flag up on the front of Danny Kvyat's pit box. :confused:
http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/us-grand-prixs-cota-gets-f1-driver-daniil-kvyats-flag-wrong
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:-[ :-[ :-[ Wasn't it at Austin when Mclaren put up a Mexican flag with a pot leaf on it when Perez was driving for them?
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Rosberg takes dominant pole while Hamilton struggles with brake problems. Damn, lost a point. |-( |-(
Williams boys take row 2, and my boy Ricciardo on 5th. Alonso hot on his tail, then the Mclarens (Button topping out Magnussen - see, I'm still fast grin on his face). Sutil brings Sauber into Q3. Vettel starts 17th, but probably out of pit lane. Grossjean picking up the back of the field after his team told him he was out by a country mile in Q. I wonder if they are even on speaking terms in the garage.
http://www.pitpass.com/52841/Rosberg-digs-deep-to-take-stunning-pole-in-Austin
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COTA keeps adding to the event - better each year from a fan's perspective.
I picked up my friend at the airport on Thursday. He had never been there so we went by the track, as much can be seen from outside the fence.
When we got there, we noticed a number of people at a gate so we went over and checked it out. It turned out that they had purchased the high-dollar pit lane walk/tour package. Since we didn't have tickets, we just walked away. We found nobody guarding the tunnel entrance under the hill to turn 1 so we walked through.
Once in the infield, we walked around, went up the tower and took in the view from 25 stories up (awesome), walked around on the track, found our way onto a recovery road, which lead to the pits, and since we were coming from behind the security people, joined the pit lane walkers.
Since it was my birthday Thursday, I flagged down the grid girls and asked for a birthday photo - a request they were happy to grant.
Friday was a good day at the track and we spent a fair amount of time walking around checking out the different seating locations. Turn 1 is fantastic and the GA grassy hillside is great. The esses provide a good close-up view of them, but little else can be seen except for the big screen. Turn 10 wasn't bad, but turn 11 was better and there is a berm on the outside of it with good viewing for the GA crowd. Our seats at turn 15 were all the way to the end and high up so we could see turn 11 and 90% of the straight down to turn 12 and of course, all of the twisty part from there to turn 16.
Saturday night at the FanFest in downtown was as good as could be. Lots of freebies given out. Piloti was giving away socks and had a pair of simulators set up for Laguna Seca. I messed up the corkscrew just a bit and missed the "magic time" to win a free pair of shoes and jacket by 3.2 seconds. I won my race against my friend however, so I won a ball cap. Joan Jett (free) concert was awesome and since the clocks were set back an hour . . .
Sunday was a beautiful day for racing. Williams ticked me off when they left Massa out at least one too many laps on degrading tires, allowing Riccardo to get passed, especially with a 3.7 pit stop.
After the race, Kid Rock did a free concert in the amphitheater at the track. That too was a great concert.
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Great race report JC - sounds like you had a blast. And those are great tips for anyone else planning on booking the USGP. :good: :good:
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A few photos . . .
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Super pictures. And it's always fun getting a peek at what one of our members looks like. The view from the tower is better than I thought it would be. Thanks JC