2011 Flappy rear wings

[Andy B]

I have just read this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9313790.stm
The use of the movable rear wing is all well and good with its intention of making overtaking easier but!!
How will we know when its in use?
How will anyone at the track side know its in use?
Its use is very complicated for when it can be used!
Do we need to know when its used?

I'm undecided about this!!

[John S]

Good points Andy, especially about 'do we need to know?' Because during a race the drivers will only be able to use the device at one particular spot on the circuit I guess we can assume any following car within a sec behind will deploy it. However with KERS back in the cars will some of the drivers opt for other overtaking points instead of the obvious flappy wing zone and try to catch opponents off guard? If all this makes for more overtaking and mixes the field up a bit I'm all for it, who cares whether or not we can tell when the flappy wings are active,

Practice and quali will I think be a different thing and are going to be harder to understand as the technical regs wording seems to suggest that the wing can be triggerred whenever and wherever the drivers like. The stipulations about zones and within one sec are only mentioned for the race itself, that's if I'm reading it right of course. Will this throw up some suprises for pole? - Oh I hope so! 

[cosworth151]

I'd guess that the activation switch will be hooked into the telemetry. It should show up on the screen with revs, braking, KERS, etc. One thing I'm not sure about. Will the wing be a simple open-close mechanism, or will the driverbe able to use partial wing?

I think the rules for the wing's use sound like the rules for the card game Fizbin:

[Dare]

Probably will be a bit too complicated for the
average F1 fan to understand!and maybe some teams

[Jericoke]

It does seem needlessly complicated.

It's not about making a better car, but about a regulated trick.

Why not make it automatic?  What scenario would a driver NOT want to use it?  (Yes, I'm aware that making it automatic might take drivers by surprise, and risk a crash.  I'm not sure that's riskier than watching for a light to come on, rather than focusing on the car in front.)

One final question:  what is the penalty for using it in the wrong time?  Will a driver be allowed to say it was an accident?  Must an advantage be gained for a penalty to be inflicted?

(I also submit that Hamilton will be the first to receive a penalty for it... even though Alonso will be the first to use it wrong.  Debate.)

[Scott]

Not to mention the day or two to wait each race as the telemetry is analyzed and penalties applied for those who used it incorrectly. 

[Jericoke]

Not to mention the day or two to wait each race as the telemetry is analyzed and penalties applied for those who used it incorrectly. 

Or why Webber's telemetry feed crashes when he closes in on Vettel...

[John S]

One final question:  what is the penalty for using it in the wrong time?  Will a driver be allowed to say it was an accident?  Must an advantage be gained for a penalty to be inflicted?

(I also submit that Hamilton will be the first to receive a penalty for it... even though Alonso will be the first to use it wrong.  Debate.)

It shouldn't be possible to use it at the wrong time or place in a race, the window for use will only be possible when the standard electronics box activates it. I presume it will kick in when a car passing a signal point meets the preset criteria set in the software, triggering a go transmission for their car's system. It automatically shuts down when brakes are applied, so if you stay engaged too long you may overun the end of the zone - but you will also overshoot the corner ruining all your hard work.

Good to see the Ferrari International Assistance legend is still alive and well, Jeri.


 

 

[Scott]

How many sensors are the track owners going to have to install, or are they going to run it on GPS?  Creating software to work fast enough, including multiple transmits from sensors, to car to device and back again, calculating where opponents are before allowing its execution etc, etc...I can't see there being a way to convince the drivers or teams that it is working properly or fairly.  Honestly, the if's, when's and where's are just a waste of time - simply hand the switch to the driver, let him use it as he sees fit and get on with the racing!   

[Jericoke]

How many sensors are the track owners going to have to install, or are they going to run it on GPS?  Creating software to work fast enough, including multiple transmits from sensors, to car to device and back again, calculating where opponents are before allowing its execution etc, etc...I can't see there being a way to convince the drivers or teams that it is working properly or fairly.  Honestly, the if's, when's and where's are just a waste of time - simply hand the switch to the driver, let him use it as he sees fit and get on with the racing!   

Seconded.

[Ian]

Motion carried.

[John S]

Yeah but if all the drivers can use it when they see fit they might as well go back to the effing duct - or even better nothing.     KERS is there to be used when they like so I presume drivers being followed will try to save a big slug for use in the zone.

 

[Dare]

right John,it seems ever rule they make to insure
passing they make another to prohibit passing

no flaps
no kers
keep the new wing changes

[Andy B]

How many sensors are the track owners going to have to install, or are they going to run it on GPS?  Creating software to work fast enough, including multiple transmits from sensors, to car to device and back again, calculating where opponents are before allowing its execution etc, etc...I can't see there being a way to convince the drivers or teams that it is working properly or fairly.  Honestly, the if's, when's and where's are just a waste of time - simply hand the switch to the driver, let him use it as he sees fit and get on with the racing!   

Assuming I have read it correctly it is to be run off GPS and will automatically switch off at the end of the designated section of track so the car is stable under braking.
So.
Flappy rear wing (FRW) to pass car in front.
Carin front uses KERS (KERS) to aid anti-overtake.
Passing car uses FRW & KERS to pass.
Then suddenly they run out of KERS the FRW closes and they slow at a huge rate and car 3 which still has KERS on runs in the back of the two slowing cars in front.
Or am I getting carried away here?
I am going to have to wait and see this in action before I pass judgement!

[Jericoke]

How many sensors are the track owners going to have to install, or are they going to run it on GPS?  Creating software to work fast enough, including multiple transmits from sensors, to car to device and back again, calculating where opponents are before allowing its execution etc, etc...I can't see there being a way to convince the drivers or teams that it is working properly or fairly.  Honestly, the if's, when's and where's are just a waste of time - simply hand the switch to the driver, let him use it as he sees fit and get on with the racing!   

Assuming I have read it correctly it is to be run off GPS and will automatically switch off at the end of the designated section of track so the car is stable under braking.
So.
Flappy rear wing (FRW) to pass car in front.
Carin front uses KERS (KERS) to aid anti-overtake.
Passing car uses FRW & KERS to pass.
Then suddenly they run out of KERS the FRW closes and they slow at a huge rate and car 3 which still has KERS on runs in the back of the two slowing cars in front.
Or am I getting carried away here?
I am going to have to wait and see this in action before I pass judgement!

I think when we're talking a three car situation, things will become far more interesting than just two cars.  Bring back Toyota and the Trulli-Train!