Boston Marathon Explosion

[cosworth151]

whilst Muslim teachings take the view if you're not with me you're agin me and so fair game".   

I've heard (and experienced) the same reaction from fundamentalist Christians, too.

[Irisado]

I disagree with Capital Punishment, but I believe there should be some sentencing reform for life sentences involving murder.  Why give them TV, decent food, nice warm place to sleep?  Make as many moments of their days left in their lives as miserable as possible without causing any actual pain.

Having to live with what they have done is more than enough really isn't it?  Also, a lot of this information about how good some people have it in prison turns out to be sensationalist, and completely untrue.

Finally, LIFE means LIFE.  No release, not ever.  Not 25yrs, not if you have cancer, not for any reason.  And make it a bit easier for them to take their own lives should they not like the conditions they put themselves in.  Maybe a built in noose or something.   

In some cases life does mean life.  In other cases it doesn't.  It depends on the individual circumstances.  I don't think that a broad brush approach works.

I fail to what is moral about a murderer getting a life sentence and being freed after eight years. A life sentence should mean that you die in prison.

We will never agree on this Arisado because I was brought up in the fifties when punishment WAS punishment.

As I said to Scott, I don't take a universal approach to justice.

Note that my parents were both brought up in the 1950s, and it's interesting that while my dad is more towards the right, my mum is far more towards the left, so there's no universal rule which states that people who are brought up in the 1950s believe in punishment either .

[Ian]

I always say thank heavens for opposing views, if everybody always agreed on everything think how boring life would be, as long as you can respect someone else's opinion all is well.

[Scott]

I disagree with Capital Punishment, but I believe there should be some sentencing reform for life sentences involving murder.  Why give them TV, decent food, nice warm place to sleep?  Make as many moments of their days left in their lives as miserable as possible without causing any actual pain.

Having to live with what they have done is more than enough really isn't it?  Also, a lot of this information about how good some people have it in prison turns out to be sensationalist, and completely untrue.

No, absolutely NO.  'Having to live with what they did' means nothing to most people even capable of committing murder.  No, make their lives miserable.  I especially believe strongly about the media blackout an minimum sustainable diet.  A life prison sentence should mean your life as you knew it effectively ends.  No more pleasure, no more good food, no more entertainment.  I am ONLY talking about life sentences.   

Had a brother in prison.  It's a lot better than being homeless.  In fact many prisons have a good portion of the population made up of previously homeless people who just committed a crime to get warm meals and bed.

[John S]

Swiss or Canadian prisons are bound to be better than the conditions enjoyed in some parts of the world, can't see a homeless person trying to get banged up in some African, Asian or South American countries. 

Imprisonment in enlightened societies now only means loss of liberty, not suffering or hard labour. We could of course return to the 18th century and all participate in feudal systems that condemn most of us to poverty, child labour, early deaths .... and worse still    no time off to watch GPs.   

   

[Dare]

John said

no time off to watch GPs.


Now that is cruel and unusual punishment

[lkjohnson1950]

Not quite sure where that leaves Catholics, who put Mother Mary ahead of the Christ child in doctrinal matters, or Jews and Sikhs. 

I was raised a Catholic, and I must disagree here. Mary is not placed ahead of Jesus, but she is venerated as a holy person of special worth as the Mother of God.

[Scott]

Swiss or Canadian prisons are bound to be better than the conditions enjoyed in some parts of the world, can't see a homeless person trying to get banged up in some African, Asian or South American countries. 

Imprisonment in enlightened societies now only means loss of liberty, not suffering or hard labour. We could of course return to the 18th century and all participate in feudal systems that condemn most of us to poverty, child labour, early deaths .... and worse still    no time off to watch GPs.   

 

Maybe if the food was bad and there was no TV, it would prevent crime.

[cosworth151]

Maybe if the food was bad and there was no TV, it would prevent crime.

Even worse, they could force them to watch American broadcast and basic cable network TV. Just imagine, 24/7 of nothing but Steve Wilcos, Survivor and Honey Boo Boo.  No, we couldn't do that. We have a constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.

[John S]

The same way they do over here and other places Lonny, they get radicalized by extremists.

Yeah and it's those puppet masters that they are trying to find as they are far more dangerous than the actual bombers.

[Ian]

We got one here in London John, but the government hasn't got the guts to give the ECHR the finger and just deport him to Jordan. Instead they house him and give him and his family all sorts of benefits.

[Irisado]

No, absolutely NO.  'Having to live with what they did' means nothing to most people even capable of committing murder.  No, make their lives miserable.  I especially believe strongly about the media blackout an minimum sustainable diet.  A life prison sentence should mean your life as you knew it effectively ends.  No more pleasure, no more good food, no more entertainment.  I am ONLY talking about life sentences.

Do you know for a fact that it means nothing though?  This is one of these assumptions that's often made (by lots of people, including me when I was a naive teenager), but the older I get the more I question such assumptions.  In addition, what good does it do to promote suffering?  Restorative justice, whereby people take responsibility, understand what they have done, and actually apologise for it would be far more meaningful to me than the 'lock them up, and throw away the key approach'.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't go to prison, but how they are treated in prison needs to change.  Compulsory therapy, teaching, and making them realise how they have affected those left behind.  That's what's required.  This is much more challenging for someone to have to do.  Throwing away the key, and leaving them in a cell is the easy way out, and is also, based on reports I've come across, unlikely to change their behaviour.

We got one here in London John, but the government hasn't got the guts to give the ECHR the finger and just deport him to Jordan. Instead they house him and give him and his family all sorts of benefits.

Evidence that his family receives massive benefits please.  The Daily Mail doesn't count as a reliable source .

The ECHR (which, I'll just clarify for anyone who doesn't know is not an EU institution) is entirely right.  As much as I would like to see him deported, we cannot do so if he's going to be tortured.  The UK has a very poor record on this as it stands regarding extraordinary rendition during the Blair government, and for a country which prides itself on democracy, and human rights, to knowingly send anyone to a country where they would be tortured is completely incompatible with how we portray ourselves on the international stage.

[Ian]

On the benefits side it has been reported through various media types, the only use I have for the Daily Mail is the puzzle pull-out middle pages.

On the prison side, if a thuggish lout had beaten and mugged your Grandmother and left her crippled and on life support would you still feel the same Irisado.

I am NOT questioning your integrity here.

[Scott]

Irisado, I capitalized 'LIFE SENTENCES' for a reason.  What is the point in rehabilitation for a life sentence (the literal meaning, not what ends up being 15-20yrs in most western countries)?  Some crimes do deserve life sentences, and for many victims an apology and rehabilitation of the criminal gives little comfort. 

To be clear, I am not talking about murder for passion or even money.  Those who randomly murder or for terror or serial killers.  The anonymity is what tells me that this type of murderer has no compassion for others, so will not 'have to live with it'.  Those are criminals who should never be returned to society in my opinion.

Anyway, like Ian said, it would be no fun if we didn't have different opinions.  However you may view me (as a naive teenager), I have a different opinion, and in fact am quite content with that.

[Irisado]

On the benefits side it has been reported through various media types, the only use I have for the Daily Mail is the puzzle pull-out middle pages.

I'll investigate myself, because I hadn't come across anything which suggested that unfair benefits were being received.

On the prison side, if a thuggish lout had beaten and mugged your Grandmother and left her crippled and on life support would you still feel the same Irisado.

I don't know how I'd feel, because it has never happened.  What I can say with certainty though is that I'd be happier if said person actually understood, and apologised for, the actions, rather than just being left to rot.  The latter option helps nobody in my view.

I am NOT questioning your integrity here.

I know .

Irisado, I capitalized 'LIFE SENTENCES' for a reason.  What is the point in rehabilitation for a life sentence (the literal meaning, not what ends up being 15-20yrs in most western countries)?  Some crimes do deserve life sentences, and for many victims an apology and rehabilitation of the criminal gives little comfort.

The point is to reduce re-offending rates, and to actually make people accept what they have done, and what harm they have caused to others (e.g. friends and family).  To debunk Michael Howard's 'prison works' slogan, that would only be true if it actually helped to change behaviour, which on its own it cannot, because just locking people up without addressing the psychological issues behind their actions in the first place won't have a positive impact on their behaviour. 

Anyway, like Ian said, it would be no fun if we didn't have different opinions.  However you may view me (as a naive teenager), I have a different opinion, and in fact am quite content with that.

No problems with different opinions for me either.